4 ms·

If Marijuana Is Legal, Will Addiction Rise?

11 points by mshafrir 17y ago

mbenjaminsmith 17y ago
It depends whether or not Big Tobacco takes it on as a cash crop. I'm sure you could make marijuana addictive with enough additives and advertising. I've met a lot of messed up people, the vast majority were primarily addicted to alcohol. All of them smoked pot on occasion. None of them had anything resembling a 'pot addiction.'
- biohacker42 17y ago
  I think cash is involved, but I'm thinking more along the lines of sales tax and state budgets. I don't think the tobacco lobby is quite as strong as it used to be. The FDA just got the right to regulate the nicotine content. And I'm not sure the tobacco lobby was ever quite as powerful as you seem to think it is today.
noodle 17y ago
the substance itself is not physically addictive. it can be considered mentally addictive, but so can the internet and world of warcraft, so thats not a very good argument against it. the only way the "product" will become more addictive is if, as it was suggested, big companies dive into it and insert more addictive things beyond simply the original substance.
- dmm 17y ago
  What is the difference between physical and mental addiction?
  - noodle 17y ago
    i think wikipedia does a good job of explaining it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction#Varied_forms_of_addiction http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction#Varied_forms_of_addic...
  - modoc 17y ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction#Varied_forms_of_addiction http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction#Varied_forms_of_addic... Essentially the difference is physical withdrawal symptoms versus mental ones (cravings, irritability, sleep issues, etc..). The line can definitely be fuzzy, and many addictions span both categories. In the case of pot versus physically addictive substances, such as alcohol or heroin, a heavy pot user forced into cold turkey withdrawal would not get the shakes, diarrhea, sweating, nausea, seizures, or death, that can happen with withdrawal of physically addictive substances.
  - warfangle 17y ago
    Physical dependence results in withdrawal symptoms that are physical: headaches with caffeine, shakes (and much, much worse) with alcohol. Mental/emotional dependence results in withdrawal symptoms like depression and anxiety. One could argue that mental/emotional withdrawal is just as physical (as it results from imbalances in neurotransmitters) as physical withdrawal. One could also argue that the only serious withdrawal symptoms out there are from alcohol - arguably one of the only drugs whose withdrawal symptoms you can die from.
    - biohacker42 17y ago
      One could also argue that the only serious withdrawal symptoms out there are from alcohol - arguably one of the only drugs whose withdrawal symptoms you can die from. Citation?
      - warfangle 17y ago
        I was a little off - sedative-hyptnotics like benzos and barbiturates can also kill you through withdrawal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delirium_tremens http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delirium_tremens "Withdrawal from sedative-hypnotics other than alcohol, such as benzodiazepines or barbiturates can also result in seizures, delirium tremens and death if not properly managed. Withdrawal from other drugs which are not sedative-hypnotics such as opiods, marijuana, cocaine etc do not have major medical complications and withdrawal is therefore not life threatening." Galanter, Marc; Kleber, Herbert D. (1 July 2008). The American Psychiatric Publishing Textbook of Substance Abuse Treatment (4th ed.). United States of America: American Psychiatric Publishing Inc. p. 58. ISBN 978-1585622764. http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=6wdJgejlQzYC http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=6wdJgejlQzYC.
      - a-priori 17y ago
        Alcohol withdrawal can produce a condition known as delirium tremens, which can cause seizures that lapse into death. Withdrawal from most drugs, while certainly unpleasant (in the case of heroin, for example), is not directly fatal. But alcohol is not the only drug whose withdrawal syndrome can kill you. Another exception is the benzodiazepines, which are prescribed for anxiety or as sleep aids. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delirium_tremens http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delirium_tremens http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine_withdrawal_syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine_withdrawal_syndr...
  - narag 17y ago
    Physical addction is what science calls simply "addiction". "Mental addiction" or "psycological addiction" is a device to call addiction something that isn't, like "addiction to the Internet", "addiction to work" or "addiction to sex". Then you sell some snake oil to cure it. Edit: OK; downmod as much as you please. Psycological addition will still be bullshit. Instead of looking at Wikipedia, that sometimes has no other choice to reflect some idiotic homeopatetic or obviously biased opinions, check what others are saying right here.
tokenadult 17y ago
How easy is it to give up marijuana forever, having once smoked it regularly?
- snprbob86 17y ago
  I have a close friend who fucked up his first year of college royally by becoming a habitual pot user. After the realization that he was actually going to get kicked out of school for academic probation, he quit cold turkey. Multiple tokes daily to zero, overnight. He turned his grades around and graduated with distinction. After he graduated, three years later, he started smoking again. He says he only smokes once or twice a month and even then only on weekends. I honestly believe him when he says he just enjoys it and feels no real addiction. It seems no different than how I am with alcohol: mmmm beer. That's just one anecdote. I don't know if that is common at all.
  - jrockway 17y ago
    It's the same as anything. I got bad grades in college for spending my time contributing to open source projects. Probably more useful than getting high all the time... but just because something can be misused or overdone doesn't mean it should be a crime to use.
- jrockway 17y ago
  Probably easier than caffeine, a highly-addictive psychoactive drug.
- potatolicious 17y ago
  Very. An anonymous acquaintance of mine was a frequent partaker until he moved to the USA, when he gave it up immediately (penalties in the US are far worse than they are back home). Didn't seem to have any trouble at all, no cravings, no withdrawal, nothing.
- jcromartie 17y ago
  Just ask a large portion of our parents' generation.
- 17y ago
siculars 17y ago
The Economist has been all over this for many years. A few months ago they had another issue devoted to the subject. Try this search for marijuana from their site: http://www.economist.com/search/search.cfm?google_rv=2&cx=001087441947416295956%3Al-gk8r9zm4i&cof=FORID%3A9&qr=marijuana&area=1&keywords=1&frommonth=01&fromyear=1997&tomonth=07&toyear=2009&rv=2 http://www.economist.com/search/search.cfm?google_rv=2&c... There are many articles to wade through covering everything from addiction to crime to the economics of legalization. In all they are pro legalization, as am I. So what if addiction needles up? On balance, the pros outweighs the cons imho. We already have an issue in this country with addiction to controlled substances, why not add marijuana to the list and deal with it within the same framework as we do other addictions?
mildavw 17y ago
"Legalization advocates note that pot addiction is not nearly as destructive as, say, abuse of alcohol." Interesting that the word "addiction" isn't used with alcohol, which is physically addictive, but is used with pot, which isn't physically addictive. Seems like a better writer would've gone with the simple and straightforward "... as destructive as alcoholism." Adding the "say," in there, and using the more detached "abuse of alcohol", seems like an intentional weighting of the comparison.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
- kingkongrevenge 17y ago
  Physical addiction of all narcotics is way overblown. The inability of "dependent" users to stop using drugs, including alcohol, is way less about physiological issues than it is simple habit. Contrary to what they show in the movies, alcoholics and smack heads do not writhe around and wail when locked up away from their fix.
  - warfangle 17y ago
    Perhaps not, but serious alcoholics can die from withdrawal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_withdrawal_syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_withdrawal_syndrome (siezures, delerium tremens, and excito-neurotoxicity)
- lacker 17y ago
  Alcohol is dangerous more often than it is addictive. If you like to drink 10 beers and then drive around, but just once a month....
TallGuyShort 17y ago
One thing that I think isn't regularly considered is the 'hemp' side of the issue. Hemp is an incredibly useful material, and if it was more widely available, it could really benefit society. I saw an article a while ago about how good it would be when used in construction, but that it probably won't happen because of how hard it is to obtain hemp. So aside from the medicinal, economic and social factors, the industrial sector could be benefitted greatly by increased hemp availability.
Confusion 17y ago
If the countries where marijuana is legalized (or at least decriminalized) are any indication, then no, addiction will not rise. The main examples are the Netherlands, Belgium and Germany.
- jamesbritt 17y ago
  FTFA: "What if marijuana is legalized? No one can say for certain. Using one country’s reform example to estimate what would happen in another is very risky. How countries differ (cultural, social, political, economic) makes a big difference." "However, the Dutch “coffee shops” example might give us a little insight. The de facto legalization policy in the Netherlands did not, in itself, affect rates of marijuana use among adults or young people. But rates of use among young people increased when the number of coffee shops increased and the age of legal access was 16. Then these rates declined when the numbers of coffee shops was reduced and the age of legal access became 18." Interesting that no mention of addiction stats are given, just usage.

11 points by mshafrir 17y ago

It depends whether or not Big Tobacco takes it on as a cash crop. I'm sure you could make marijuana addictive with enough additives and advertising. I've met a lot of messed up people, the vast majority were primarily addicted to alcohol. All of them smoked pot on occasion. None of them had anything resembling a 'pot addiction.'

biohacker42 17y ago
I think cash is involved, but I'm thinking more along the lines of sales tax and state budgets. I don't think the tobacco lobby is quite as strong as it used to be. The FDA just got the right to regulate the nicotine content. And I'm not sure the tobacco lobby was ever quite as powerful as you seem to think it is today.

noodle 17y ago

the substance itself is not physically addictive. it can be considered mentally addictive, but so can the internet and world of warcraft, so thats not a very good argument against it. the only way the "product" will become more addictive is if, as it was suggested, big companies dive into it and insert more addictive things beyond simply the original substance.

dmm 17y ago
What is the difference between physical and mental addiction?
- noodle 17y ago
  i think wikipedia does a good job of explaining it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction#Varied_forms_of_addiction http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction#Varied_forms_of_addic...
- modoc 17y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction#Varied_forms_of_addiction http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction#Varied_forms_of_addic... Essentially the difference is physical withdrawal symptoms versus mental ones (cravings, irritability, sleep issues, etc..). The line can definitely be fuzzy, and many addictions span both categories. In the case of pot versus physically addictive substances, such as alcohol or heroin, a heavy pot user forced into cold turkey withdrawal would not get the shakes, diarrhea, sweating, nausea, seizures, or death, that can happen with withdrawal of physically addictive substances.
- warfangle 17y ago
  Physical dependence results in withdrawal symptoms that are physical: headaches with caffeine, shakes (and much, much worse) with alcohol. Mental/emotional dependence results in withdrawal symptoms like depression and anxiety. One could argue that mental/emotional withdrawal is just as physical (as it results from imbalances in neurotransmitters) as physical withdrawal. One could also argue that the only serious withdrawal symptoms out there are from alcohol - arguably one of the only drugs whose withdrawal symptoms you can die from.
  - biohacker42 17y ago
    One could also argue that the only serious withdrawal symptoms out there are from alcohol - arguably one of the only drugs whose withdrawal symptoms you can die from. Citation?
    - warfangle 17y ago
      I was a little off - sedative-hyptnotics like benzos and barbiturates can also kill you through withdrawal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delirium_tremens http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delirium_tremens "Withdrawal from sedative-hypnotics other than alcohol, such as benzodiazepines or barbiturates can also result in seizures, delirium tremens and death if not properly managed. Withdrawal from other drugs which are not sedative-hypnotics such as opiods, marijuana, cocaine etc do not have major medical complications and withdrawal is therefore not life threatening." Galanter, Marc; Kleber, Herbert D. (1 July 2008). The American Psychiatric Publishing Textbook of Substance Abuse Treatment (4th ed.). United States of America: American Psychiatric Publishing Inc. p. 58. ISBN 978-1585622764. http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=6wdJgejlQzYC http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=6wdJgejlQzYC.
    - a-priori 17y ago
      Alcohol withdrawal can produce a condition known as delirium tremens, which can cause seizures that lapse into death. Withdrawal from most drugs, while certainly unpleasant (in the case of heroin, for example), is not directly fatal. But alcohol is not the only drug whose withdrawal syndrome can kill you. Another exception is the benzodiazepines, which are prescribed for anxiety or as sleep aids. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delirium_tremens http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delirium_tremens http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine_withdrawal_syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine_withdrawal_syndr...
- narag 17y ago
  Physical addction is what science calls simply "addiction". "Mental addiction" or "psycological addiction" is a device to call addiction something that isn't, like "addiction to the Internet", "addiction to work" or "addiction to sex". Then you sell some snake oil to cure it. Edit: OK; downmod as much as you please. Psycological addition will still be bullshit. Instead of looking at Wikipedia, that sometimes has no other choice to reflect some idiotic homeopatetic or obviously biased opinions, check what others are saying right here.

tokenadult 17y ago

How easy is it to give up marijuana forever, having once smoked it regularly?

snprbob86 17y ago
I have a close friend who fucked up his first year of college royally by becoming a habitual pot user. After the realization that he was actually going to get kicked out of school for academic probation, he quit cold turkey. Multiple tokes daily to zero, overnight. He turned his grades around and graduated with distinction. After he graduated, three years later, he started smoking again. He says he only smokes once or twice a month and even then only on weekends. I honestly believe him when he says he just enjoys it and feels no real addiction. It seems no different than how I am with alcohol: mmmm beer. That's just one anecdote. I don't know if that is common at all.
- jrockway 17y ago
  It's the same as anything. I got bad grades in college for spending my time contributing to open source projects. Probably more useful than getting high all the time... but just because something can be misused or overdone doesn't mean it should be a crime to use.
jrockway 17y ago
Probably easier than caffeine, a highly-addictive psychoactive drug.
potatolicious 17y ago
Very. An anonymous acquaintance of mine was a frequent partaker until he moved to the USA, when he gave it up immediately (penalties in the US are far worse than they are back home). Didn't seem to have any trouble at all, no cravings, no withdrawal, nothing.
jcromartie 17y ago
Just ask a large portion of our parents' generation.
17y ago

siculars 17y ago

The Economist has been all over this for many years. A few months ago they had another issue devoted to the subject. Try this search for marijuana from their site: http://www.economist.com/search/search.cfm?google_rv=2&cx=001087441947416295956%3Al-gk8r9zm4i&cof=FORID%3A9&qr=marijuana&area=1&keywords=1&frommonth=01&fromyear=1997&tomonth=07&toyear=2009&rv=2 http://www.economist.com/search/search.cfm?google_rv=2&c... There are many articles to wade through covering everything from addiction to crime to the economics of legalization. In all they are pro legalization, as am I. So what if addiction needles up? On balance, the pros outweighs the cons imho. We already have an issue in this country with addiction to controlled substances, why not add marijuana to the list and deal with it within the same framework as we do other addictions?

mildavw 17y ago

"Legalization advocates note that pot addiction is not nearly as destructive as, say, abuse of alcohol." Interesting that the word "addiction" isn't used with alcohol, which is physically addictive, but is used with pot, which isn't physically addictive. Seems like a better writer would've gone with the simple and straightforward "... as destructive as alcoholism." Adding the "say," in there, and using the more detached "abuse of alcohol", seems like an intentional weighting of the comparison.

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
kingkongrevenge 17y ago
Physical addiction of all narcotics is way overblown. The inability of "dependent" users to stop using drugs, including alcohol, is way less about physiological issues than it is simple habit. Contrary to what they show in the movies, alcoholics and smack heads do not writhe around and wail when locked up away from their fix.
- warfangle 17y ago
  Perhaps not, but serious alcoholics can die from withdrawal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_withdrawal_syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_withdrawal_syndrome (siezures, delerium tremens, and excito-neurotoxicity)
lacker 17y ago
Alcohol is dangerous more often than it is addictive. If you like to drink 10 beers and then drive around, but just once a month....

TallGuyShort 17y ago

One thing that I think isn't regularly considered is the 'hemp' side of the issue. Hemp is an incredibly useful material, and if it was more widely available, it could really benefit society. I saw an article a while ago about how good it would be when used in construction, but that it probably won't happen because of how hard it is to obtain hemp. So aside from the medicinal, economic and social factors, the industrial sector could be benefitted greatly by increased hemp availability.

Confusion 17y ago

If the countries where marijuana is legalized (or at least decriminalized) are any indication, then no, addiction will not rise. The main examples are the Netherlands, Belgium and Germany.

jamesbritt 17y ago
FTFA: "What if marijuana is legalized? No one can say for certain. Using one country’s reform example to estimate what would happen in another is very risky. How countries differ (cultural, social, political, economic) makes a big difference." "However, the Dutch “coffee shops” example might give us a little insight. The de facto legalization policy in the Netherlands did not, in itself, affect rates of marijuana use among adults or young people. But rates of use among young people increased when the number of coffee shops increased and the age of legal access was 16. Then these rates declined when the numbers of coffee shops was reduced and the age of legal access became 18." Interesting that no mention of addiction stats are given, just usage.