9 ms·

> We are offering to buy a new computer with a modern browser for any of our customers who are stuck with IE7 Great PR, since practically no-one is going to ta

> We are offering to buy a new computer with a modern browser for any of our customers who are stuck with IE7 Great PR, since practically no-one is going to take them up on the offer. If you're on IE7 you're probably on it because MegaCorp's Intranet Application '02 Enterprise Edition doesn't work on anything else. Meaning the new computer will break their LOB application. It's also possible it won't cost them any money in the long run, if their definition of "customer" is limited to the people posting jobs [1]. [1] http://www.nursingjobs.us/employers/pricing/ http://www.nursingjobs.us/employers/pricing/

valarauca1 13y ago
The other option is they are elderly or just don't care. They have that E-Machines Pentium 3 future proof 256MB of RAM Windows98 computer and they'll use it until they die, because shouldn't everything that costs over $1,000 dollars last for 20-30 years?
- crisnoble 13y ago
  Yes, just like your car will last you 20 years. If you drive a car from 1994 you don't expect to be able to drive 90 mph or offroad without running into major issues. Should cities keep their infrastructure backwards compatible for people with old cars?
  - hackmiester 13y ago
    It's apples and oranges. In 1994 people went over 80mph all the time, and they still do. If you maintain a car well, it will continue to be able to do that. By contrast, though... a PC perfectly maintained from 1994 until now would be hopeless in today's infrastructure.
    - DanWaterworth 13y ago
      Yes, it's more like buying $1000 worth of apples and oranges.
    - crisnoble 13y ago
      > a PC perfectly maintained from 1994 until now would be hopeless in today's infrastructure. Not if they upgraded both their hardware and software along the way. Even without upgrades, their computer might function just fine, but they should not expect to browse websites created with technologies that were not yet dreamed of when their computer was born. People expect to make phone calls on their 5 year old phones, but it would be unreasonable for them to complain that they cannot download the latest version of snapchat on it. People with old browsers and hardware can expect old websites and software to work for them. It is unreasonable for developers to be required to create new websites that work for outdated and insecure browsers.
      - eropple 13y ago
        > Not if they upgraded both their hardware and software along the way. The "upgrades" necessary would be a new computer in all but case, so unless your name is Theseus, you've got a new computer.
        spellboots 13y ago
        > Theseus Or Trigger... http://www.frequency.com/video/only-fools-horses-truth-behind-triggers/70490197/-/Vidoosh http://www.frequency.com/video/only-fools-horses-truth-behin...
  - micampe 13y ago
    I do that with a car from 1972. The comparison doesn't hold though.
    - crisnoble 13y ago
      You likely have been upgrading and maintaining your car. Users with IE7 who expect the world to freeze with their hardware are like car owners who do not change their oil yet would be amiss when their car stops functioning after 10 years.
      - flomo 13y ago
        Strained car analogies are the 1999 Slashdot PT Cruiser of internet arguments.
        Zancarius 13y ago
        I nearly spit water out of my nose. And probably the corner of my eyes.
        aaronem 13y ago
        Could be worse, as I've just found out; it could be hot coffee.
      - nirvdrum 13y ago
        I don't think anyone running IE 7 honestly believes that. But the promise of the Web was you got to avoid minimum hardware requirements and things worked everywhere. HTML and CSS were supposed to be backwards-compatible by degrading gracefully. This point has been lost. There's really very little point in having an open standard if the only way to run anything is to update your browser every 6 weeks.
- gburnett 13y ago
  In the case of elderly users I don't think that many of them could even identify the browser that they use without prompting from others.
  - rmc 13y ago
    Sure they can. The usually use Google as a browser.
    - moya 13y ago
      When I recently asked my grandfather about his browser preference, he said Yahoo. I came to realize that he believes Yahoo IS the web; it's his start page on IE.
      - rmc 13y ago
        No, IE is what he uses for the internet. His browser is Yahoo.
stephen_g 13y ago
"If you're on IE7 you're probably on it because MegaCorp's Intranet Application '02 Enterprise Edition doesn't work on anything else." This is what virtual machines are for...
- barake 13y ago
  Try teaching the HR officer who is afraid of the maximize button to use a VM. Even Windows 7 XP mode is scary - the chrome is different.
  - fredsted 13y ago
    That's like a carpenter saying he's afraid to pick up a hammer. How can you be an employee and at the same time be afraid of doing your job?
    - s_kilk 13y ago
      It might be hard to believe, but there are plenty of people in the world whos job has nothing to do with being tech-savvy. In this specific case the persons job is to manage HR process, not to keep their IT infrastructure up to date. The computer and browser are just tools.
      - fredsted 13y ago
        I'm not saying they have to be tech-savvy, where did I say that? And keeping the IT-infrastructure up to date? What has that got to do with anything? Did you reply to the wrong comment? If part of your work depends on using a computer (to manage HR or whatever), you can't be afraid of doing basic tasks like maximizing a window, turning it on, etc. Just like a carpenter can't be afraid of picking up a hammer. I hope it's more clear to you now.
      - tomswartz07 13y ago
        The above comment still holds. If your job is to use the tool all day, every day, one would expect that you would learn how it works. I see the same issues as well where I work in education. Teachers, whose job is literally all about learning, are terrified to learn about technology tools for their classroom.
shearnie 13y ago
I wonder if there'll be a rush for IE10 compliancy when Windows XP support comes to an end like COBOL systems needed Y2K compliancy leading up to 2000?
polskibus 13y ago
IE8 has compatibility mode that will work just fine will all those "designed for IE6" pages. Same for IE9. In IE10 and 11 I found the compatibility mode to be less accurate in mimicking oldIE.
lotsofcows 13y ago
I assumed the whole point of the offer was that they'd be able to run both computers. The old works-with-our-"enterprise"-software computer is kept alongside the new web-browsing computer.
- ben336 13y ago
  Thats not really how enterprise computing policies work :) If its not centrally administrated, its probably not allowed. At least in the type of environment where people are still on IE7.
  - lotsofcows 13y ago
    I think you missed a hyphen. I was referring to the horrible limited software that many companies use that always seems to have "enterprise" in the name. If you're stuck in the sort of toxic environment where a new free machine is not allowed because "policy" then nothing can help you.

valarauca1 13y ago

The other option is they are elderly or just don't care. They have that E-Machines Pentium 3 future proof 256MB of RAM Windows98 computer and they'll use it until they die, because shouldn't everything that costs over $1,000 dollars last for 20-30 years?

crisnoble 13y ago
Yes, just like your car will last you 20 years. If you drive a car from 1994 you don't expect to be able to drive 90 mph or offroad without running into major issues. Should cities keep their infrastructure backwards compatible for people with old cars?
- hackmiester 13y ago
  It's apples and oranges. In 1994 people went over 80mph all the time, and they still do. If you maintain a car well, it will continue to be able to do that. By contrast, though... a PC perfectly maintained from 1994 until now would be hopeless in today's infrastructure.
  - DanWaterworth 13y ago
    Yes, it's more like buying $1000 worth of apples and oranges.
  - crisnoble 13y ago
    > a PC perfectly maintained from 1994 until now would be hopeless in today's infrastructure. Not if they upgraded both their hardware and software along the way. Even without upgrades, their computer might function just fine, but they should not expect to browse websites created with technologies that were not yet dreamed of when their computer was born. People expect to make phone calls on their 5 year old phones, but it would be unreasonable for them to complain that they cannot download the latest version of snapchat on it. People with old browsers and hardware can expect old websites and software to work for them. It is unreasonable for developers to be required to create new websites that work for outdated and insecure browsers.
    - eropple 13y ago
      > Not if they upgraded both their hardware and software along the way. The "upgrades" necessary would be a new computer in all but case, so unless your name is Theseus, you've got a new computer.
      - spellboots 13y ago
        > Theseus Or Trigger... http://www.frequency.com/video/only-fools-horses-truth-behind-triggers/70490197/-/Vidoosh http://www.frequency.com/video/only-fools-horses-truth-behin...
- micampe 13y ago
  I do that with a car from 1972. The comparison doesn't hold though.
  - crisnoble 13y ago
    You likely have been upgrading and maintaining your car. Users with IE7 who expect the world to freeze with their hardware are like car owners who do not change their oil yet would be amiss when their car stops functioning after 10 years.
    - flomo 13y ago
      Strained car analogies are the 1999 Slashdot PT Cruiser of internet arguments.
      - Zancarius 13y ago
        I nearly spit water out of my nose. And probably the corner of my eyes.
        aaronem 13y ago
        Could be worse, as I've just found out; it could be hot coffee.
    - nirvdrum 13y ago
      I don't think anyone running IE 7 honestly believes that. But the promise of the Web was you got to avoid minimum hardware requirements and things worked everywhere. HTML and CSS were supposed to be backwards-compatible by degrading gracefully. This point has been lost. There's really very little point in having an open standard if the only way to run anything is to update your browser every 6 weeks.
gburnett 13y ago
In the case of elderly users I don't think that many of them could even identify the browser that they use without prompting from others.
- rmc 13y ago
  Sure they can. The usually use Google as a browser.
  - moya 13y ago
    When I recently asked my grandfather about his browser preference, he said Yahoo. I came to realize that he believes Yahoo IS the web; it's his start page on IE.
    - rmc 13y ago
      No, IE is what he uses for the internet. His browser is Yahoo.

stephen_g 13y ago

"If you're on IE7 you're probably on it because MegaCorp's Intranet Application '02 Enterprise Edition doesn't work on anything else." This is what virtual machines are for...

barake 13y ago
Try teaching the HR officer who is afraid of the maximize button to use a VM. Even Windows 7 XP mode is scary - the chrome is different.
- fredsted 13y ago
  That's like a carpenter saying he's afraid to pick up a hammer. How can you be an employee and at the same time be afraid of doing your job?
  - s_kilk 13y ago
    It might be hard to believe, but there are plenty of people in the world whos job has nothing to do with being tech-savvy. In this specific case the persons job is to manage HR process, not to keep their IT infrastructure up to date. The computer and browser are just tools.
    - fredsted 13y ago
      I'm not saying they have to be tech-savvy, where did I say that? And keeping the IT-infrastructure up to date? What has that got to do with anything? Did you reply to the wrong comment? If part of your work depends on using a computer (to manage HR or whatever), you can't be afraid of doing basic tasks like maximizing a window, turning it on, etc. Just like a carpenter can't be afraid of picking up a hammer. I hope it's more clear to you now.
    - tomswartz07 13y ago
      The above comment still holds. If your job is to use the tool all day, every day, one would expect that you would learn how it works. I see the same issues as well where I work in education. Teachers, whose job is literally all about learning, are terrified to learn about technology tools for their classroom.

shearnie 13y ago

I wonder if there'll be a rush for IE10 compliancy when Windows XP support comes to an end like COBOL systems needed Y2K compliancy leading up to 2000?

polskibus 13y ago

IE8 has compatibility mode that will work just fine will all those "designed for IE6" pages. Same for IE9. In IE10 and 11 I found the compatibility mode to be less accurate in mimicking oldIE.

lotsofcows 13y ago

I assumed the whole point of the offer was that they'd be able to run both computers. The old works-with-our-"enterprise"-software computer is kept alongside the new web-browsing computer.

ben336 13y ago
Thats not really how enterprise computing policies work :) If its not centrally administrated, its probably not allowed. At least in the type of environment where people are still on IE7.
- lotsofcows 13y ago
  I think you missed a hyphen. I was referring to the horrible limited software that many companies use that always seems to have "enterprise" in the name. If you're stuck in the sort of toxic environment where a new free machine is not allowed because "policy" then nothing can help you.