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Ukraine crisis: Parliament abolishes anti-protest law
- nmc 13y agoA shame that took two weeks and four deaths.
- guard-of-terra 13y agoWell, in neighboring Russia and Belarus that took nothing because such laws were introduced and then never abolished there. The grip is airtight. So I only have to congratulate Ukrainians in being a nation, not just a set of "former soviet citizens".
- vetinari 13y agoThese laws are in effect in EU for more than decade and nobody cares.
- guard-of-terra 13y agoEvery country has a set of N (of M, M >> N) anti-protest laws. A random subset of M. Where M is every anti-protest law present in any country. Trying to introduce new laws so N becomes N1 > N is stifling of freedom and should be fought. Does not matter that laws in (N1 - N) present in other countries (in M). Other countries just have different laws. They lack some anti-protest laws you already have! Or, they explicitly state some freedoms your country just does not have. In copying repressive laws from them (whithout removing repressive laws they do not have and/or adding freedoms), you're not becoming closer to them, you become closer to North Korea (which probably has its Nnk = M).
- vetinari 13y agoOr much simpler explanation: "the west" uses double standard, uses anything at hand to scandlize opponent and does not realize, that the same reason is valid at home. Beam's in one's eye...
- guard-of-terra 13y agoWhoa whoa guy, you do not "simpler explanation" me, you actually refute some of my stated claims.
- pavelrub 13y agoThe mathematical notations here are really bad.
- guard-of-terra 13y agoDo rewrite.
- kushti 13y agoIn US and EU similar laws being enforcing for decades
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- philhippus 13y agoSo? The Ukranians didn't want the US and EU laws for their country.
- vetinari 13y agoThat's fine, if it was the point of protesting Ukrainians. They are protesting something else (corruption of all politicians, including Janukovic and Klicko). The main force using this talking point is the _US and EU press_.
- Mikeb85 13y agoThe point is the filter the western media uses to vilify Yanukovych for passing laws that exist everywhere in the western world.
- marcosdumay 13y agoThey are (probably, but some times it's more complicated than that) just as bad at all those places that have them. Yanukovych is still as much a vilain.
- tomh 13y agoAdd to that six missing and many jailed: http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-dead-missing-jailed/25244469.html http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-dead-missing-jailed/252...
- noswi 13y agoHow to deal with the discontent: 1. Make things worse for everybody, much worse, 2. After public outrage, return things to how they were before #1, 3. Profit, while the public rejoices and celebrates a victory.
- Mikeb85 13y agoIf you actually read the laws that Yanukovych passed, they were hardly extreme, and are close to what is in place in most Western countries already. Limits on shutting down infrastructure, arming yourself in a protest, wearing body armour, inciting violence, and setting up tents in public areas... Things which are illegal everywhere in the West. But everyone gets their news through a filter here, no one reads primary sources, no one reads Ukrainian or Russian or even bothers with translation tools... Edit - love the downvotes for suggesting people look into primary sources. Guess people love being sheep.
- mishkaechoes 13y agoCoupled with a 15 year term?
- viach 13y ago-- Coupled with a 15 year term? -- no one reads primary sources
- cLeEOGPw 13y agoThese laws are irrelevant to the situation. The protest tarted because Yanukovic refused to sign economic treaty with EU and instead accepted money from Russia. And that was not the whole reason either, it was just last drop in the glass of patience. The corruption is the core reason, and people want to join EU in hopes that EU will help reduce the corruption.
- viach 13y agoThat's weird. - Ukraine needed to adapt their laws to EU standards before signing the association with EU. - Pro-EU protesters fight against these laws. I'm lost here.
- nodata 13y ago> Pro-EU protesters fight against these laws. Huh? Against which laws in particular?
- replax 13y agoIn many EU countries, such as Germany for example, it is illegal to wear helmets or even any gear which might hide your identity like ski masks, large hats etc. Therefore, it's kind of ironic, as those laws are "standard" in many EU countries. Nevertheless, people even in those countries now become very upset about the Ukraine banning headgear......
- spindritf 13y agoIn many EU countries, such as Germany for example, it is illegal to wear helmets or even any gear which might hide your identity like ski masks, large hats etc. Are any of those laws EU-mandated though? Because while the bulk of legislation in member states comes from Brussels, and there is a lot of harmonization effort, it is mostly focused on economic regulations. German parliament passing a law carries no obligation for other countries to adopt similar legislation.
- pizza234 13y agoThings need to be put in context. It's ironc as much as the fact that in many EU countries, when people protest, they don't get brutally beaten, if they're lucky, or kidnapped, tortured and thrown into the fields, possibly dead, when they're not, or that doctors and journalists are not being shot and killed, and so on.
- pitiburi 13y ago
- brown9-2 13y agoParliament - holding an emergency debate on the crisis - voted by 361 to 2 to repeal the protest law. How many of those MPs voted for the law when it was passed two weeks ago? The article is missing that context.
- volodia 13y agoOfficially, 180-something, but they voted by show of hand (because the opposition prevented proper voting procedures), which is illegitimate, and a blatant violation of protocol. Moreover, photographs prove that most government deputies didn't event bother to raise their hands, and the parliamentary speaker simply came up with a number.
- mercer 13y agoWow. Does that kind of thing happen often? I didn't think it would be so blatant.
- girvo 13y agoI've found it interesting that nearly every anti-protestor comments about the Ukraine situation here have been Russians (as per their profiles). A solid 75%+ anyway, for the last three threads. Why is that?
- austenallred 13y agoI don't know if I can answer your question, but I lived in eastern Ukraine for two years (yes, I speak fluent Russian), and my frustration with the media and journalism there has sent me on a three year (so far) journey to make everyday people the driving force of journalism instead of governments and corporations. And please take note, it's impossible to speak for a group of people or boil down what's happening to anything concrete when it's very disparate and unique to each individual. But I'll point out a few trends I've seen. For some background, eastern Ukraine is very pro-Russian, and was (and is) very pro-Yanukovytch. The majority of the people I talked to pined for the days of the Soviet Union, when bread was cheap, everyone had what they needed, etc. They viewed the fall of the soviet union as a psychological infiltration from the west, and, apart from a short rendezvous to defeat Hitler, the west is still the enemy and full of corrupt capitalist blood suckers (which, to be fair, can be not-too-far from the truth at times). It's hard for most westerners to imagine that many of the major cities in Ukraine have a 30 ft + statue of Lenin or that many of the major streets are named "Lenin" street, but it's not uncommon for me to see poems or images praising Stalin from my Russian Facebook (or Vkontakte) friends. The Soviet Union was the good ol' days, not grouped together with pre-WWII Germany as it often is in the States. Stalin is decidedly not Hitler. I include this information not to say that anti-protest comments come from Soviets/Communists, but the influence of the Soviet Union and how information was relayed still lingers, even today. When most of the people there, especially the older generations, talked about the media, they would often reference a transmission from Moscow (передача из Москвы) as the only source of reliable information. Think of it as "published in the New York Times." And bear in mind that the New York Times has been just as involved in Propaganda as was Pravda in its heyday. The battle, in the mind of Russians, is one of information, and of each side trying to deceive the other. Americans look at pro-Communist posters as "propaganda" but at the western side's as simply "promotional posters." Russians see it as an ideological battle being fought with information. For many Russians this is the same battle being fought. It's not revolutionaries vs. evil dictator, it's east vs. west. It's Russia vs. the Europe/United States. And when a battle of information leads to such sharp contrasts, you defend your side, in a similar way to how Republicans defended George Bush when he did stupid things and Democrats defend Barack Obama when he does stupid things. It's not about the particular circumstance, it's about ideology. You'll notice a common thread of "Well, sometimes Russia sucks, but America sucks sometimes too." Which, again, is completely fair. And again, this is not something that only happens in Russia. But this leads to trying to sway the facts in favor of one side, and that often leads to gross misinterpretation of what is actually going on. Russia Today and Pravda are state-sponsored PR organizations dressed up as journalistic institutions. When the protests began, according to RT it was "a handful of people" gathered, angry at "a failed trade law," and not the bubbling over of frustration as a completely corrupt President threw his enemies in jail and deepened relations with Putin. Take, for example, the naked protestor who was mocked by police, photographed, slapped, kicked, and put in a van (graphic video:) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSt4kAItj4Q http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSt4kAItj4Q. Many of my Russian friends would tell you he was trying to set himself on fire, the police saved him, took pictures "in memoriam," gave him a few friendly slaps, and let him go. They would leave comments like "Let him burn next time!" or "Be careful, police, you're only giving the terrorists more psychological ammunition!" So, to answer your question, in the mind of a Russian it's because we're still fighting a war of information, and the west likes to deceive and destroy Russia psychologically. They defend their ideology the same way we defend ours, and sometimes information and facts are left out to dry.