5 ms·

How would regulation have prevented this at all? A cab would be as likely to hit the child.

by gasull 13y ago

rosser 13y ago
I don't think you can make that assertion. All the devices (meter, GPS, &c) in the cabin of a cab are set up for hands-free operation. Even when I've been in a cab where the driver is on the phone (which is often), he's invariably been using an earbud or Bluetooth headset (or, occasionally, speakerphone, which can be annoying). The contention in the suit, however, seems to be that Uber's app is designed not to be hands free, and on that basis asserts negligence on Uber's part (where "negligence" is defined as "actions a reasonable person would deem likely to cause serious injury or death that are willfully undertaken despite that risk" — or something to that effect; lawyers reading along at home please correct or clarify as needed). EDIT: s/criminal negligence/negligence/g
- bradleyjg 13y ago
  Only the state can formally accuse you of a crime. The complaint accuses Uber of a variety of torts under a variety of theories, and includes accusations necessary to seek punitive damages ("The conduct of the Defendants and each of them was engaged in with fraud, oppression and/or malice, and was in conscious disregard of the rights and safety of others ..."). There is significant overlap between the elements and standards necessary to warrant punitive damages and criminal negligence statues, but they aren't identical and the two processes are entirely separate in terms of how and whether they proceed.
- jdminhbg 13y ago
  > All the devices (meter, GPS, &c) in the cabin of a cab are set up for hands-free operation. I have never been in a cab with a hands-free meter or GPS. Does a hands-free taxi meter even exist? They're pretty analog devices with buttons you push to stop or start them.
  - rosser 13y ago
    "Hands free" doesn't mean you must never touch it. I've never seen a cabbie futz around with the meter in transit; it's not part of their normal operation. Uber's app, however, requires poking at your smartphone screen.
    - jdminhbg 13y ago
      Using a GPS requires poking at your GPS screen -- have you ever been in a cab with a hands-free GPS? Do you think that when a cabbie without a current fare gets radioed with a pickup location, he pulls over to enter the address in his GPS? Ideally, cabbies and Uber drivers make all their necessary communication noodling while stopped, in between fares. In reality, both frequently distract themselves with both the necessary navigational/fare stuff they have to do with phone/GPS/meter and unnecessary calling/texting besides.
Zikes 13y ago
The article says that the lawsuit claims the driver was distracted by the Uber app.
- Dylan16807 13y ago
  Does it? I can't find it. It looks to me like someone is playing a game of implications. It says the app handles pickups in a way that is unsafe to interact with while driving, but there is no claim that such a thing was happening at the time of the accident.
  - Zikes 13y ago
    When drivers accept a call, furthermore, they need to interface with the app. The suit goes on to note that under California law, it is illegal to use a “wireless telephone” while driving unless it is specifically configured to be hands-free — which the app is not. In essence, the suit argues that Uber was negligent in the “development, implementation and use of the app” so as to cause the driver to be distracted and inattentive.
    - Dylan16807 13y ago
      Is that driver in the specific? I thought it was the general case. Okay with a more thorough search I found an actual claim of the specific driver being distracted on page 9 of the suit, not sure why I didn't find it before.
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bonemachine 13y ago
The original article was really quite informative about this. Please have a look: When drivers accept a call, furthermore, they need to interface with the app. The suit goes on to note that under California law, it is illegal to use a “wireless telephone” while driving unless it is specifically configured to be hands-free — which the app is not. In essence, the suit argues that Uber was negligent in the “development, implementation and use of the app” so as to cause the driver to be distracted and inattentive.
- gasull 13y ago
  That's a very good point.
- angersock 13y ago
  As we've seen with the Google buses, when an individual does it they must follow the laws, and when a company does it it isn't a crime.
  - bonemachine 13y ago
    Well it's still a "crime", technically, but for companies at Google/HSBC/BP-scale the consequences are more like those for a misdemeanor -- i.e. you might pay a trivial fine, and maybe get a little egg on your face, but that's pretty much it. Whereas for an individual or a small-timer, the analogous violation would be treated as felony-class, or worse. So dreht sich alles auf der Welt.

How would regulation have prevented this at all? A cab would be as likely to hit the child.

by gasull 13y ago

How would regulation have prevented this at all? A cab would be as likely to hit the child.

I don't think you can make that assertion. All the devices (meter, GPS, &c) in the cabin of a cab are set up for hands-free operation. Even when I've been in a cab where the driver is on the phone (which is often), he's invariably been using an earbud or Bluetooth headset (or, occasionally, speakerphone, which can be annoying). The contention in the suit, however, seems to be that Uber's app is designed not to be hands free, and on that basis asserts negligence on Uber's part (where "negligence" is defined as "actions a reasonable person would deem likely to cause serious injury or death that are willfully undertaken despite that risk" — or something to that effect; lawyers reading along at home please correct or clarify as needed). EDIT: s/criminal negligence/negligence/g

bradleyjg 13y ago
Only the state can formally accuse you of a crime. The complaint accuses Uber of a variety of torts under a variety of theories, and includes accusations necessary to seek punitive damages ("The conduct of the Defendants and each of them was engaged in with fraud, oppression and/or malice, and was in conscious disregard of the rights and safety of others ..."). There is significant overlap between the elements and standards necessary to warrant punitive damages and criminal negligence statues, but they aren't identical and the two processes are entirely separate in terms of how and whether they proceed.
jdminhbg 13y ago
> All the devices (meter, GPS, &c) in the cabin of a cab are set up for hands-free operation. I have never been in a cab with a hands-free meter or GPS. Does a hands-free taxi meter even exist? They're pretty analog devices with buttons you push to stop or start them.
- rosser 13y ago
  "Hands free" doesn't mean you must never touch it. I've never seen a cabbie futz around with the meter in transit; it's not part of their normal operation. Uber's app, however, requires poking at your smartphone screen.
  - jdminhbg 13y ago
    Using a GPS requires poking at your GPS screen -- have you ever been in a cab with a hands-free GPS? Do you think that when a cabbie without a current fare gets radioed with a pickup location, he pulls over to enter the address in his GPS? Ideally, cabbies and Uber drivers make all their necessary communication noodling while stopped, in between fares. In reality, both frequently distract themselves with both the necessary navigational/fare stuff they have to do with phone/GPS/meter and unnecessary calling/texting besides.

Zikes 13y ago

The article says that the lawsuit claims the driver was distracted by the Uber app.

Dylan16807 13y ago
Does it? I can't find it. It looks to me like someone is playing a game of implications. It says the app handles pickups in a way that is unsafe to interact with while driving, but there is no claim that such a thing was happening at the time of the accident.
- Zikes 13y ago
  When drivers accept a call, furthermore, they need to interface with the app. The suit goes on to note that under California law, it is illegal to use a “wireless telephone” while driving unless it is specifically configured to be hands-free — which the app is not. In essence, the suit argues that Uber was negligent in the “development, implementation and use of the app” so as to cause the driver to be distracted and inattentive.
  - Dylan16807 13y ago
    Is that driver in the specific? I thought it was the general case. Okay with a more thorough search I found an actual claim of the specific driver being distracted on page 9 of the suit, not sure why I didn't find it before.

deleted 13y ago

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deleted 13y ago

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bonemachine 13y ago

The original article was really quite informative about this. Please have a look: When drivers accept a call, furthermore, they need to interface with the app. The suit goes on to note that under California law, it is illegal to use a “wireless telephone” while driving unless it is specifically configured to be hands-free — which the app is not. In essence, the suit argues that Uber was negligent in the “development, implementation and use of the app” so as to cause the driver to be distracted and inattentive.

gasull 13y ago
That's a very good point.
angersock 13y ago
As we've seen with the Google buses, when an individual does it they must follow the laws, and when a company does it it isn't a crime.
- bonemachine 13y ago
  Well it's still a "crime", technically, but for companies at Google/HSBC/BP-scale the consequences are more like those for a misdemeanor -- i.e. you might pay a trivial fine, and maybe get a little egg on your face, but that's pretty much it. Whereas for an individual or a small-timer, the analogous violation would be treated as felony-class, or worse. So dreht sich alles auf der Welt.