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How about picking a focus, then a language? I see no point in "becoming a programmer". Want to make web apps? JS. Want systems? C. And so on. Going for a "firs

How about picking a focus, then a language? I see no point in "becoming a programmer". Want to make web apps? JS. Want systems? C. And so on. Going for a "first" programming language seems to assume certain things: * That you ARE going to become a programmer and that you will NOT change your mind/priorities * That somehow whatever language you first pick will definitely be useful for your final goal. Sure, C will teach you all the ins and outs of manual memory management, but why go through it if all you really need is Processing? * That there is some special point in time when you're supposed to learn how to deal with the grave dangers of the misplaced semicolon/memory leak/etc. How many of those "learning to code" really become programmers and end up doing it for a living, or making habitual use of pointers or some other concept that a programmer must/must not deal with in their first programming language?

a3n 13y ago
This kind of question, "what first?" can still make sense if you think of all of the vaguely technical tasks that many non-programmer/engineer types will encounter. Then, what's a good language to server as a good enough tool if they go no further, and a good enough foundation if they do. Python would serve that, especially given all the batteries that people can draw on. In fact "batteries" should be part of that introductory course, so that you know to look for a battery first instead of jumping to writing it.
dinkumthinkum 13y ago
But some people are actually interested in being competent in computer science and not just whipping out blog engines in the latest fad framework.
- sirseal 13y ago
  There's too few of us...
- gravedave 13y ago
  The main idea still applies. C and Scheme show very different aspects of computer science, so even those people will need to choose a focus. If all you want to do is "become a programmer" you'll discover that you'll never get there, as there's always more to know. If you're asking yourself now what language to pick, you'll later ask what to learn next, and once you've done that, ask again. Asking what first language to pick is just the first manifestation of a potentially never-ending bad habit of never gaining focus. This applies to both web apps and computer science.
NAFV_P 13y ago
> How many of those "learning to code" really become programmers and end up doing it for a living, or making habitual use of pointers or some other concept that a programmer must/must not deal with in their first programming language? I recently talked with someone from an employment agency that deals mainly with IT companies (I live in the UK). The gentleman stated that since I don't already work in an area if IT, my chances of getting into it are very slim. He also said that many people who work in IT often start in a company in an administration context or something similar. Since I work as an arborist, I have practically no chance. I started learning C++ nearly two years ago, then switched to straight C. Most of my programs have very little practical use, but almost all the code that I write involves pointers, arrays of pointers, function pointers and void pointers. I would be stuck in the mud without having an address book.
marcosdumay 13y ago
That would make more sense if learning to program was easy, and learning a language, hard. But in practice it's exactly the other way around.

a3n 13y ago

This kind of question, "what first?" can still make sense if you think of all of the vaguely technical tasks that many non-programmer/engineer types will encounter. Then, what's a good language to server as a good enough tool if they go no further, and a good enough foundation if they do. Python would serve that, especially given all the batteries that people can draw on. In fact "batteries" should be part of that introductory course, so that you know to look for a battery first instead of jumping to writing it.

dinkumthinkum 13y ago

But some people are actually interested in being competent in computer science and not just whipping out blog engines in the latest fad framework.

sirseal 13y ago
There's too few of us...
gravedave 13y ago
The main idea still applies. C and Scheme show very different aspects of computer science, so even those people will need to choose a focus. If all you want to do is "become a programmer" you'll discover that you'll never get there, as there's always more to know. If you're asking yourself now what language to pick, you'll later ask what to learn next, and once you've done that, ask again. Asking what first language to pick is just the first manifestation of a potentially never-ending bad habit of never gaining focus. This applies to both web apps and computer science.

NAFV_P 13y ago

> How many of those "learning to code" really become programmers and end up doing it for a living, or making habitual use of pointers or some other concept that a programmer must/must not deal with in their first programming language? I recently talked with someone from an employment agency that deals mainly with IT companies (I live in the UK). The gentleman stated that since I don't already work in an area if IT, my chances of getting into it are very slim. He also said that many people who work in IT often start in a company in an administration context or something similar. Since I work as an arborist, I have practically no chance. I started learning C++ nearly two years ago, then switched to straight C. Most of my programs have very little practical use, but almost all the code that I write involves pointers, arrays of pointers, function pointers and void pointers. I would be stuck in the mud without having an address book.

marcosdumay 13y ago

That would make more sense if learning to program was easy, and learning a language, hard. But in practice it's exactly the other way around.