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Please don't downvote just because you disagree. Have a discussion if you're comfortable with your beliefs. It would do more good for all involved.

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300bps 13y ago
Sorry, I was raised Christian and realized at 12 years old that it was complete bunk. How did I realize that? I read the bible. Literally every day. I read it cover to cover at least 15 times. It contains pearls of wisdom floating in a sea of nonsense. No rational person can read that book cover to cover and remain a Christian. Which is why Christians have bible study groups where they focus on John 3:16 and other pretty verses while ignoring the wackjob parts that make up most of the bible. But it is pointless for me to even point this out to you so I'll stop here.
- narrator 13y ago
  The bible makes as much sense as most ancient literature. I read it and compared it to ancient Greek, Roman and Babylonian literature. It's interesting to compare and contrast what values are emphasized over others. The old testament is very into offspring and private property, mainly in the form of livestock. The Greeks are more into glory for its own sake. Gilgamesh is about friendship, civilization vs.nature and trying to live forever.
  - jamesrcole 13y ago
    > The bible makes as much sense as most ancient literature. I don't see why that's a meaningful comparison. I'm inclined to say, so what?
  - 300bps 13y ago
    The bible makes as much sense as most ancient literature. Key difference is that rational people in 2014 aren't claiming that Zeus may strike you down with a lightning bolt or thinking that Gilgamesh was divinely inspired. The old testament is very into offspring and private property Really? It just seems like a mish-mash of things nobody today would find acceptable. It advocates slavery in many places. Example: http://biblehub.com/genesis/16-8.htm http://biblehub.com/genesis/16-8.htm http://biblehub.com/genesis/16-9.htm http://biblehub.com/genesis/16-9.htm Giving up your virgin daughters for men to do as they want: http://biblehub.com/genesis/19-8.htm http://biblehub.com/genesis/19-8.htm And then there's this: http://biblehub.com/ezekiel/23-19.htm http://biblehub.com/ezekiel/23-19.htm http://biblehub.com/ezekiel/23-20.htm http://biblehub.com/ezekiel/23-20.htm There is some wacky stuff in The Holy Bible. The New Testament isn't much better. It's a little better. But not much.
    - kirse 13y ago
      What else do you expect? You're not supposed to find most of it acceptable. Why are you surprised when a book that records the fall of man into sin and depravity is both shocking and FULL of stories of man pushing the bounds of depravity? It is brutally authentic and you should be reeling at the accounts of the depths of what mankind has done to himself. The Bible doesn't "advocate" anything by those verses. Surely you wouldn't read a historical account of World War II and be so naive as to say that the book is "advocating" genocide, would you? That would be totally irrational. To say that God "advocated" mankind's actions because they are recorded in the Old Testament is completely, utterly false and naive. It's like saying two parents "advocate" drug use when they recount the story of their child's drug addiction and how they attempted to bring their child back to being clean. The parents might even have a part in their story where they demanded their child keep the drug habit to the basement, or maybe even offered clean needles in lieu of the potentially infected ones off the street. But to say they "advocated" for that behavior? Hogwash! No, the motive you are looking for is "merciful allowance, with a loving hope for restoration."
- matwood 13y ago
  I took the same path as you. Forced church when I was younger and then started questioning, and finally was asked not to come to Sunday school anymore. Because the bible says so is simply not an acceptable answer and that is what it all came down to. Today I usually just avoid religious conversations because most people are not aware that I have been there and done that, and I often know more about their religion than they do. If religion makes someone feel good, great. For me personally, the most vocally religious people I have met have always selfish people who hide behind the veil of Jesus.
  - sdegutis 13y ago
    Unfortunately you're right, there are many Christians who just like to argue and abuse their "religion" to get their confrontational needs met. There are also many Christians who don't really stand on solid ground in their faith. But there are Christians out there who know what they're talking about, who know more about their religion than the enlightened ex-Christians and educated atheists do. You've probably never met one. Most people haven't. Because they don't like to argue or confront people. And they don't force their views down people's throats. Most of the time, they just sit there quietly and pray for those non-believers who other Christians would insult or argue with. They usually only bring it up when they're asked to give account for the reason they have hope, and they do it with gentleness and respect.
    - pekk 13y ago
      You have started arguments and confrontations in this thread, where it really isn't relevant, and you haven't backed anything up, and that makes you look like a bit of a zealot. Maybe consider your own behavior instead of pleading for respect of an idealized Christian (who you pretty obviously intend to be yourself). You aren't a martyr here.
      - sdegutis 13y ago
        I don't claim to be perfect. But I'm also not shoving anything down anyone's throats. And I don't see how anything I've said on here constitutes arguing. I think you're confusing me with someone else maybe?
pstack 13y ago
There's no discussion to be had. A toddler may feel at ease because someone convinced him his flashlight will fend off the monsters in his closet and under his bed. It helps the kid sleep, but there's no enlightened, meaningful, or useful discussion to be had from that. If I tell you "I believe in the healing power of crystals and wear them around my neck and it has helped me come to a certain peace with my mortality", you would either say "well, good for you if that helps your mental state cope with things" or "you're fucking nuts". Neither avenue is going to progress, inform, or help anyone.

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300bps 13y ago

Sorry, I was raised Christian and realized at 12 years old that it was complete bunk. How did I realize that? I read the bible. Literally every day. I read it cover to cover at least 15 times. It contains pearls of wisdom floating in a sea of nonsense. No rational person can read that book cover to cover and remain a Christian. Which is why Christians have bible study groups where they focus on John 3:16 and other pretty verses while ignoring the wackjob parts that make up most of the bible. But it is pointless for me to even point this out to you so I'll stop here.

narrator 13y ago
The bible makes as much sense as most ancient literature. I read it and compared it to ancient Greek, Roman and Babylonian literature. It's interesting to compare and contrast what values are emphasized over others. The old testament is very into offspring and private property, mainly in the form of livestock. The Greeks are more into glory for its own sake. Gilgamesh is about friendship, civilization vs.nature and trying to live forever.
- jamesrcole 13y ago
  > The bible makes as much sense as most ancient literature. I don't see why that's a meaningful comparison. I'm inclined to say, so what?
- 300bps 13y ago
  The bible makes as much sense as most ancient literature. Key difference is that rational people in 2014 aren't claiming that Zeus may strike you down with a lightning bolt or thinking that Gilgamesh was divinely inspired. The old testament is very into offspring and private property Really? It just seems like a mish-mash of things nobody today would find acceptable. It advocates slavery in many places. Example: http://biblehub.com/genesis/16-8.htm http://biblehub.com/genesis/16-8.htm http://biblehub.com/genesis/16-9.htm http://biblehub.com/genesis/16-9.htm Giving up your virgin daughters for men to do as they want: http://biblehub.com/genesis/19-8.htm http://biblehub.com/genesis/19-8.htm And then there's this: http://biblehub.com/ezekiel/23-19.htm http://biblehub.com/ezekiel/23-19.htm http://biblehub.com/ezekiel/23-20.htm http://biblehub.com/ezekiel/23-20.htm There is some wacky stuff in The Holy Bible. The New Testament isn't much better. It's a little better. But not much.
  - kirse 13y ago
    What else do you expect? You're not supposed to find most of it acceptable. Why are you surprised when a book that records the fall of man into sin and depravity is both shocking and FULL of stories of man pushing the bounds of depravity? It is brutally authentic and you should be reeling at the accounts of the depths of what mankind has done to himself. The Bible doesn't "advocate" anything by those verses. Surely you wouldn't read a historical account of World War II and be so naive as to say that the book is "advocating" genocide, would you? That would be totally irrational. To say that God "advocated" mankind's actions because they are recorded in the Old Testament is completely, utterly false and naive. It's like saying two parents "advocate" drug use when they recount the story of their child's drug addiction and how they attempted to bring their child back to being clean. The parents might even have a part in their story where they demanded their child keep the drug habit to the basement, or maybe even offered clean needles in lieu of the potentially infected ones off the street. But to say they "advocated" for that behavior? Hogwash! No, the motive you are looking for is "merciful allowance, with a loving hope for restoration."
matwood 13y ago
I took the same path as you. Forced church when I was younger and then started questioning, and finally was asked not to come to Sunday school anymore. Because the bible says so is simply not an acceptable answer and that is what it all came down to. Today I usually just avoid religious conversations because most people are not aware that I have been there and done that, and I often know more about their religion than they do. If religion makes someone feel good, great. For me personally, the most vocally religious people I have met have always selfish people who hide behind the veil of Jesus.
- sdegutis 13y ago
  Unfortunately you're right, there are many Christians who just like to argue and abuse their "religion" to get their confrontational needs met. There are also many Christians who don't really stand on solid ground in their faith. But there are Christians out there who know what they're talking about, who know more about their religion than the enlightened ex-Christians and educated atheists do. You've probably never met one. Most people haven't. Because they don't like to argue or confront people. And they don't force their views down people's throats. Most of the time, they just sit there quietly and pray for those non-believers who other Christians would insult or argue with. They usually only bring it up when they're asked to give account for the reason they have hope, and they do it with gentleness and respect.
  - pekk 13y ago
    You have started arguments and confrontations in this thread, where it really isn't relevant, and you haven't backed anything up, and that makes you look like a bit of a zealot. Maybe consider your own behavior instead of pleading for respect of an idealized Christian (who you pretty obviously intend to be yourself). You aren't a martyr here.
    - sdegutis 13y ago
      I don't claim to be perfect. But I'm also not shoving anything down anyone's throats. And I don't see how anything I've said on here constitutes arguing. I think you're confusing me with someone else maybe?

pstack 13y ago

There's no discussion to be had. A toddler may feel at ease because someone convinced him his flashlight will fend off the monsters in his closet and under his bed. It helps the kid sleep, but there's no enlightened, meaningful, or useful discussion to be had from that. If I tell you "I believe in the healing power of crystals and wear them around my neck and it has helped me come to a certain peace with my mortality", you would either say "well, good for you if that helps your mental state cope with things" or "you're fucking nuts". Neither avenue is going to progress, inform, or help anyone.