10 ms·

Bill Gates loses to Magnus Carlsen in 9 moves

251 points by prateekj 13y ago

samolang 13y ago
If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
- tspiteri 13y ago
  This was not about judging, it was just a bit of fun.
  - samolang 13y ago
    I know. I just thought this was a good illustration of this commonly stated aphorism.
    - sklivvz1971 13y ago
      Some fishes climb trees. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p003c3jk http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p003c3jk
- prateekj 13y ago
  Nobody is judging anybody! For god's sake, one is a world chess champion and the other is a tech mogul who ruled the software industry for nearly two decades. It's just fun to watch them sit together and play a game of chess.
- RivieraKid 13y ago
  Well, fish are pretty much stupid.
  - MrBra 13y ago
    Are they or is it.. ?
jljljl 13y ago
"Bill Gates loses to LeBron James 232 - 0" Not sure what outcome was expected...
- grecy 13y ago
  It's Friday - News can be fun sometimes you know.
- dagw 13y ago
  The part that makes it news is that Bill Gates and Magnus Carlsen sat down and played chess, not that Gates lost.
  - levosmetalo 13y ago
    Next time they should try doing a quick sort in Basic ;)
  - jljljl 13y ago
    I do think it's a fun story. But the lede isn't "Bill Gates Plays Chess with Magnus Carlsen", it isn't even "Bill Gates loses to Magnus Carlsen". It's "Bill Gates loses to Magnus Carlsen in 9 moves".
- ionforce 13y ago
  Anderson Cooper once raced Michael Phelps and that was every gay man's dream. Sometimes it's not about being competitive. It's just TV.
rfnslyr 13y ago
Magnus Carlsen didn't start a billion dollar company, and Bill Gates isn't a chess god. Why is this article on HN? Who cares?
- Bootvis 13y ago
  Because it's fun to watch and I must say I was surprised to see that a genius like Gates played rather badly.
  - ultimatedelman 13y ago
    being a genius in one thing doesn't always translate into others ;)
  - rfnslyr 13y ago
    Yeah because chess is an INCREDIBLY hard game to get good at regardless of how smart you are. I've been playing for years and going to my local chess club and I'm still trash ahaha.
  - Jtsummers 13y ago
    Skill in chess requires (at Carlsen's level) a great deal of intuition and knowledge and practice. Bill Gates is a talented programmer and businessman. Unless chess was a personal passion or interest, there would be no reason to expect him to be any better than the average person under pressure, faced with a 2-minute clock and a world champion.
  - pachydermic 13y ago
    Yeah I'd say being smart doesn't necessarily help you play good chess - being dumb hurts, though. I wonder when the last time Gates even played chess? And even though he had way more time than Magnus did, 2 minutes is not a lot of time... Most blitz games are 3 or 5 minutes and if you're not an avid player (or at least used to it) then it's really hard to play fast like that. Magnus probably didn't have to think at all since he already knew the opening, whereas Gates was probably on his own from the third move on. Kudos to Gates for being a good sport.
  - 13y ago
avenger123 13y ago
Respect for Bill. That was impressive. I'm not an avid Chess player but to play at that speed with his obviously gifted opponent and last that long is respectable.
- goldenkey 13y ago
  There's nothing super special about an amazing chess player that would let them check mate you in 9 movies unless you play horrendously. Grand Masters are not super heros of chess. They are 'comprehensive.' Lets be real rather than gaudy. I should mention that I am a chess master and have played GMs online.
  - mphillips2357 13y ago
    This. Bill is a smart guy but that doesn't mean he played impressively well at all.
    - rizzom5000 13y ago
      Yeah, this looks like it was filmed live during a talk show. I highly doubt there was any interest from anyone involved, especially the audience, for a lengthy game.
  - swombat 13y ago
    Having only two minutes on the clock and an opponent who plays really quickly would unnerve any inexperienced player and turn them quite easily into a horrendous player, IMHO.
  - NAFV_P 13y ago
    Have you ever played against a formidable electronic opponent? I've heard they sometimes use unusual tactics.
  - RoboTeddy 13y ago
    If an amateur had 10 hours to think about each move of a chess game, and the GM he was playing against had 1 second for each move (and couldn't think on the amateur's time), the GM would still _crush_ the amateur. GMs kind of are super heroes of chess. (it is true though that 9 moves is a silly short game. most amateurs would last longer)
tedsanders 13y ago
How is this news? Magnus Carlsen is good at chess. Bill Gates is bad at chess. How does this story add value to anyone's life? What was learned here? (sincerely curious)
- prawks 13y ago
  Fun. If people are more interested in either Bill Gates or Magnus Carlsen, then here's a starting point. Many people likely don't know who Magnus is, now they do. Bill Gates' involvement makes it more likely that people would have watched the video. Also, fun.
  - tedsanders 13y ago
    Hmm, I used to play lots of chess and still follow the chess world, so this wasn't interesting or educational to me. But if people who aren't familiar with chess or Magnus Carlsen still found it fun or interesting, then that's good enough for me. :) Thanks for your sincere reply to my sincere question.
- mikehearn 13y ago
  Most of the time when people achieve world-class ability in something, they end up exclusively competing against others that have a similar talent level. It's worthwhile (and fun) to be occasionally reminded just how much of a talent gap there is between them and the average person.
  - tedsanders 13y ago
    I see. I guess what's obvious to me - that a grandmaster can crush a chump in 30 seconds - is not obvious to all. I'm glad that so many people find it interesting.
    - mikehearn 13y ago
      I think that's true, particularly if you are well-versed in chess. The outcome that Carlsen would win is obvious to everyone, but the details – the actual minutia of the game – are not. For example (and I'm not a chess player), if you told me that Carlsen and Gates played and asked me to guess how many moves it would take for Carlsen to win, I would've put it in the 15-20 range. Nine was a genuine surprise. Even more enlightening, though obvious in retrospect, was how quickly and seemingly without thought Carlsen was able to play each move, almost as if he knew what move Gates would make before he made it. It makes perfect sense, but it was fascinating to watch and it made me appreciate how much of a second-nature chess truly is to Carlsen.
stiff 13y ago
Surprisingly this has brought some memories, I remember my father beating me in a chess game exactly the same way in just a few moves, back when I was a kid, my chess knowledge to this day sums up to knowing how the pieces move, and my father I think knew some more chess theory regarding strategy, but wasn't even a competitive player, so my laymen impression is that this was a really unremarkable game. Would someone competent at chess be so kind and explain what did Bill do wrong? Does this class of mistakes (castling "locking" the king in the corner) have a name?
- astine 13y ago
  Gate's first mistake wasn't castling, but taking Carlsen's pawn without having a sufficient a sufficient buildup for the exchange. He lost the center of the board as a result. That's just my two cents as I haven't played competitively since middle school.
- Bootvis 13y ago
  In general, castling is a good thing. In this case, and in retrospect, it was unwise. Carlsens pieces were aiming at the king side so further development and then castling queen side would have made more sense. I think Gates' first mistake was 3. Bd3. It blocks the d-pawn and the bishop isn't very active at Bd3. The computer gives white a small advantage after 2. .. d5 but a disadvantage after Bd3. It prefers to just take the pawn. With low depth the computer also plays Gates 4th to 6th move. So despite the threads on the king side castling seems possible. 6. h3 is not recommended but it thinks Blakcks response 7 .. Ne5 is a blunder. However, with his last move, allowing the mate, Gates really blunders. If he would have played Re1 instead the computer gives an advantage of almost 3 pawns. Note: the computer was Stockfish
- raintrees 13y ago
  My dad once challenged me (again) and I really didn't want to play, so I ran Fool's Mate on him (I had read it in some book of chess challenges). He never asked again, it was kind of ruined for him... Gotta watch those teenagers, I wasn't nice sometimes when my free reading was being interrupted. Edit: glad I grew up some...
throwaway_yy2Di 13y ago
1. e4 Nc6 2. Nf3 d5 3. Bd3 Nf6 4. exd5 Qxd5 5. Nc3 Qh5 6. 0-0 Bg4 7. h3 Ne5 ╔═══════════════╗ ║♜ … … … ♚ ♝ … ♜║ ║♟ ♟ ♟ … ♟ ♟ ♟ ♟║ ║… … … … … ♞ … …║ ║… … … … ♞ … … ♛║ ║… … … … … … ♝ …║ ║… … ♘ ♗ … ♘ … ♙║ ║♙ ♙ ♙ ♙ … ♙ ♙ …║ ║♖ … ♗ ♕ … ♖ ♔ …║ ╚═══════════════╝ 8. hxg4 Nfxg4 9. Nxe5 Qh2# ╔═══════════════╗ ║♜ … … … ♚ ♝ … ♜║ ║♟ ♟ ♟ … ♟ ♟ ♟ ♟║ ║… … … … … … … …║ ║… … … … ♘ … … …║ ║… … … … … … ♞ …║ ║… … ♘ ♗ … … … …║ ║♙ ♙ ♙ ♙ … ♙ ♙ ♛║ ║♖ … ♗ ♕ … ♖ ♔ …║ ╚═══════════════╝
- pjungwir 13y ago
  I'm no expert, but since all the other comments are just complaining, here are my (very amateur) thoughts: 1. e4 The most common opening in chess. Bill knows he's supposed to bring out some knights and bishops in these next few moves, which is good! 1. ... Nc6 2. Nf3 d5 Both black moves aim for an open center so he can make it a fast game with plenty options to attack. His move invites Bill to waste a turn changing the center from pawn vs pawn to queen vs nothing. To his credit Bill resists capturing for a bit! 3. Bd3 Doesn't make much sense to block your queen pawn like this. Of course he's trying to support e4 or win d5, but he's tying himself in knots. 3. ... Nf6 4. exd5 Qxd5 Magnus is ahead in development. 5. Nc3 Qh5 I'm sure Magnus would have played more conservatively against a better player. But in this case, he might as well attack! 6. 0-0 Seems like Bill stepped right into the line of fire here, but his blocked queen pawn makes everything else hard to move. 6. ... Bg4 Pinning the knight. This immobilizes yet another piece and makes Bill's queen even more stuck. 7. h3 Moving the pawns in front of your castled king usually weakens your defenses. And hxg4 is suicidal. 7. ... Ne5 Attack! Magnus is happy to give up material to gain time and open vulnerabilities. 8. hxg4 Nfxg4 9. Nxe5 Getting greedy, but even if he did something else, was there was any way to stop that queen? I've lost games more quickly than Bill, and not to grandmasters, so props to him for at least making reasonable moves.
  - GraffitiTim 13y ago
    That analysis looks fine except for the end. At the end, Bill's 9. Nxe5 resulted in an immediate checkmate. Instead, 9. Re1 (Rook one square to the left) stops the mate since it gives white's king an escape route. In an even match, the game would be winning for white at that point because Magnus sacrificed a bishop for his now-failed attack. Magnus screwed up big-time or was goofing around. He would still be able to beat Gates from that losing position, but I'm very surprised he let that happen.
elorant 13y ago
The amazing part for someone like me who knows just basic chess is how aggressive Carlsen was. It’s scary seeing him coming on you with all those pieces and instantaneous moves. It also gives you a measure of his grandeur. It seems BillG got panicked given the little time he had to think his moves; at least I’d do.
- oldstrangers 13y ago
  Carlsen had a 30 second clock. Even an average player should've been able to put Carlsen into time pressure at that point, assuming you didn't fall into any silly traps like Gates did.
  - deletes 13y ago
    It is a trick actually. The more time the opponent has, the easier it is for Carlsen, as he uses his opponents turn time to think. An average player doesn't have the skill to put him under pressure. +edit: you also usually get an extra second or two ( depending on the total time ) per move.
    - georgemcbay 13y ago
      Yeah he has time to think when the opponent is moving, but 30 seconds just isn't a lot of time if you consider there is a minimum practical time per move just based on the physical reality of being a human that has to move the piece and hit the clock, as illustrated pretty well by Carlsen's move where he knocked over a piece and burnt something like 3 seconds on one move. I think any decently skilled (but non-world-class) chess player could have run him down just by playing defensively. Of course, that would have been terrible tv, so we got someone who probably only plays casually getting steam-rolled by the "Justin Bieber of chess".
      - oldstrangers 13y ago
        "Justin Beiber of chess". 'The Mozart of chess' is the general consensus. The 'Justin Beiber of chess' is rather insulting.
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benjohnson 13y ago
Make me appreciate Go that much more - to me, Go seems a much more enjoyable game when the opponents are mismatched. Even though I'm pretty good at Go, it's enjoyable to play with a beginner. You don't have to trounce them to find satisfaction.
- oldstrangers 13y ago
  Magnus had a 30 second clock, so he basically had to trounce him.
- MichaelGG 13y ago
  I'm very new to Go, but I am continually impressed and amazed at its depth and beauty. A few tiny simple rules producing such complex gameplay is really awe-inspiring. Chess, with its many types of pieces, limited moves, many rules just doesn't have the same elegance.
- auvrw 13y ago
  yeah, go is fun. i'm always surprised to find out who's good at go. i've known some video game developers to be better than some grad students. so to return to the article, being good at these games, like any other skill, is, in part, a matter of practice. i don't think gates need (or does, actually) feel, "intellectually inadequate," unless he's been practicing chess almost full-time for the past 10 years.
deletes 13y ago
They should play monopoly. The game would be over even faster.
- garethadams 13y ago
  Bill Gates already won all the Monopoly in 2001
lazyant 13y ago
3. Bd3?
codegeek 13y ago
How many moves did it take for Magnus to beat Anand ?
- dubcanada 13y ago
  His final match was 58 moves
pjmorris 13y ago
The Gates biography 'Gates' by Stephen Manes recalls that Gates used to play chess against Paul Allen a great deal in the early days. IIRC, Gates would play very aggressively, leaving lots of opportunities to be attacked, and Allen would usually win the games. He was more of a poker player though.
jsyedidia 13y ago
Actually, Carlsen was playing for tricks (as might be reasonable when you have just 30 seconds). Bill Gates had a winning position on the 9th move. If instead of 9. Nxe5?? which allows an immediate checkmate, he had played 9. Re1!, he would have had a huge advantage. I'm an international master, and more importantly, my computer backs up my opinion. I'm surprised Carlsen played a game with just 30 seconds on his clock; it's easy to lose in that situation since you simply don't have enough time to make more than about 30 moves. And by the way, the best player in the world at ridiculously short time controls ("bullet chess") like 1 minute for the game is Hikaru Nakamura, the top-rated American player, not Magnus Carlsen. Nakamura tends to play soundly in these time controls. Look at this video for a game where Nakamura plays against Grandmaster Max Dlugy (another bullet chess expert) with kibitzing by Grandmaster Ben Finegold: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzrap8Vtyq8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzrap8Vtyq8
- willvarfar 13y ago
  Carlsen actually said he was just playing that for tricks, and started trying to explain this in the Skarvlan show itself, but camera pans quickly away.
  - Ironlink 13y ago
    The episode is available here http://www.svtplay.se/video/1753565/del-3-av-12 http://www.svtplay.se/video/1753565/del-3-av-12 but you need to understand Norwegian (speech) or Swedish (subtitles). Edit: The preamble to the chess game starts at 53:00 and is in English.
- haberman 13y ago
  > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzrap8Vtyq8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzrap8Vtyq8 I'm going to go for the most pedestrian, naive chess commentary ever by noting that at 0:20 it looks like there is a road through the middle of the board.
  - GraffitiTim 13y ago
    If you mean the vertical line (horizontal from camera perspective) of squares with no pieces on it, that's called an open file, and it's an important concept in chess. Rooks on an open file are generally more powerful.
twobits 13y ago
Well, when I was a child, my chess playing future was taken down in flames by the chess program I had. In the easiest setting, I would lose in a few moves. That proved not to be very motivating.
megablast 13y ago
When you have all the openings memorised, as the champs do, it is not really playing until 10 or 20 moves in. It is not really playing a game in this situation, it is Magnus going through the motions.
- gk1 13y ago
  That's only the case when both players know the openings and follow "textbook" moves throughout the opening. When playing against amateurs, you're usually out of the memorized lines in just a few moves, so at that point it just becomes tactical.
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sayemm 13y ago
Chess isn't his game, bridge is: http://www.buffettcup.com/Default.aspx?tabid=69 http://www.buffettcup.com/Default.aspx?tabid=69 http://www.thegatesnotes.com/Personal/What-Makes-for-a-Good-Bridge-Partner http://www.thegatesnotes.com/Personal/What-Makes-for-a-Good-... http://www.larryco.com/OldStuff/Gates4.html http://www.larryco.com/OldStuff/Gates4.html
packetslave 13y ago
Carlsen visited Google last week and played 10 simultaneous games against Googlers. Chessbase did a writeup here: http://en.chessbase.com/post/carlsen-google http://en.chessbase.com/post/carlsen-google TL;DR: Carlsen went 10-0 with only one close game, against the highest rated player (2168)
- dudus 13y ago
  Not a very avid chess player but I had a lot of fun going over your game notes. Thanks and congrats for the achievements in that game.
willvarfar 13y ago
I watched the Skavlan show tonight, and found the whole thing very fun. The true story of Irish adoptions was particularly harrowing, but the chess match lightened the load. It didn't seem that Bill knew he was going to be asked to play chess, and he seemed to take it in good humour. Bill prefaced the game with apologies that nobody should expect much and that he was a much better Go player.
scotty79 13y ago
As a kid I played a lot of chess with one of my childhood friends. I was always (almost?) winning. Imagine my surprise when in high-school I played with a guy who learned to play chess as a kid. He beat me just as fast as Bill Gates got beaten. Then he beat me, but slower in subsequent 7 games that day and then some over the following months. But one day I finally beat him. I guess he got a little careless after all that wins and I learned good bit from him. Interestingly I beat his ass in checkers every time. Also interestingly roughly about the same time I played chess with an actual math genius (distance between two lines of his reasoning required whole page of careful explanation for me) and he was making dumbest moves I've seen because he barely ever played chess before. Games are not about thinking. By thinking long and hard you can get to 5-10% of skill of a master. The rest is learning from books and stronger opponents. I had another friend. He had played significantly more unreal tournament than quake, I just the opposite. I was kicking his ass 50 to 1 in quake even on a slower computer with smaller monitor and crappier mouse, but he was kicking my ass 50 to 1 in Unreal Tournament and I wasn't bad at that game. I was as good as any of my friends except for this guy. I guess my point is that skill is very specific to the game and must be earned.
argumentum 13y ago
> "Wow, that was fast," he said to Carlsen, whose rockstar appeal has won him the moniker the "Justin Bieber of chess." "Justin Bieber of chess." really?
- krapp 13y ago
  But... isn't Magnus Carlsen good at chess? I don't understand...
  - argumentum 13y ago
    What exactly is Justin Bieber so good at to earn such a comparison? Not singing, not composing music, not dancing .. no one has ever claimed he's the "world #1" at anything other than being celebrity amongst other pre-teen children. And Magnus Carlsen is certainly not a celebrity amongst pre-teen children, so the comparison makes no sense.
    - baddox 13y ago
      > What exactly is Justin Bieber so good at to earn such a comparison? The key is right there in the sentence. The comparison being made is "rockstar of chess," referring not necessarily to "skill" or "talent," but to the ability to be famous worldwide.
    - vecter 13y ago
      Bieber is actually quite a good singer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko8gepM8MBU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko8gepM8MBU. It's easy to lose sight of that given his stardom, but he got his start based on raw singing talent.
      - argumentum 13y ago
        Of course he's likely in the top 0.001% of singing talent, but would you say he's literally "the best" singer in the world regardless of age?
    - Jonovono 13y ago
hawkharris 13y ago
Bill Gates also famously plays cards and other one-on-one games with Warren Buffet. I would love to have an insight into the conversations that take place during those games. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP1nAvi85g0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP1nAvi85g0
- ternaryoperator 13y ago
  Gates is actually a decent bridge player. Buffett, however, is definitely at expert level. He plays a lot online, generally with a former women's world champ as his partner.
- wisty 13y ago
  Also, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontransitive_dice http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontransitive_dice Warren Buffet had a collection of non-transitive dice (dice with non-standard numbers, with special properties ... basically a paper-scissors-rock set of dice). He offered Bill a bet, and suggested Bill pick the dice first (and Warren would then pick the dice most likely to beat Bill's). Bill, of course, realised it was some sort of trick, and examined the dice, then suggested Warren pick first.
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vacri 13y ago
Gates should challenge Carlsen to a speed game of Write the Disk Operating Sytem Before the Big Meeting Next Week, methinks.
tomato_sausage 13y ago
Seeing as I went 16 moves against Kasparov as a complete noob to chess, does that make me better than Bill Gates? My programming ability and checkbook seem to disagree, however. :/
lifeisstillgood 13y ago
There is a Derren Brown (UK Illusionist) piece where he plays seven opponents at once, walking round in a big circle, and amazingly wins 4 out of 7. Afterwards the explanation is simple - he played 6 masters or grandmasters, and one guy off the street. And simply (!) memorised the moves of player A and made them against player C, B to D etc. All he had to do was play a decent game against the guy off the street and he would always beat 50%
- lostcolony 13y ago
  That's a quite clever application of the one ahead principle
- pslam 13y ago
  That's quite a security hack. The Grandmasters are being made to play each other via him - they are kind of oracles.
- has2k1 13y ago
  He was probably inspired by a sub-plot in Sydney Sheldon's "If Tomorrow Comes" (1985).
- pgopalan 13y ago
  This works only if the colors are reversed in subsequent boards. To avoid this trick, all traditional simuls (short for simultaneous play - where one chess master plays many people) have two simple rules: 1)The chess master has the same color in all the boards 2) The color of the chess master's pieces are usually white Since white always makes the first move in a chess game, it is not possible to copy the game from board A and play it in board B with reverse colors.
bborud 13y ago
What did people expect? For Bill Gates' bodyguards to break both of Magnus arms and Bill taunting him "whatsamatter bitch? are you gonna move? tick-tock". Why is this on HN?
- alexeisadeski3 13y ago
  MS-DOS 13
haberman 13y ago
It's funny because you know that in there somewhere Bill Gates must still have his former extremely competitive self, and getting beat so badly has got to be humbling. He's a great sport about it though.
- venomsnake 13y ago
  A loss is painful only when you have reasonable chance to win.
- visarga 13y ago
  Letting yourself get beat at chess, made fun of by talk shows or using self deprecating humor are strategies for making people to like you more. He got what he wanted, if he was just doing this to gain geek admiration.
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ExpiredLink 13y ago
How long would it take you to lose against Mike Tyson in a boxing fight?
lbolla 13y ago
Best commentary of the match, by Jerry! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0QdI0rVoHA&feature=em-uploademail http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0QdI0rVoHA&feature=em-upload...

251 points by prateekj 13y ago

samolang 13y ago

If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.

tspiteri 13y ago
This was not about judging, it was just a bit of fun.
- samolang 13y ago
  I know. I just thought this was a good illustration of this commonly stated aphorism.
  - sklivvz1971 13y ago
    Some fishes climb trees. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p003c3jk http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p003c3jk
prateekj 13y ago
Nobody is judging anybody! For god's sake, one is a world chess champion and the other is a tech mogul who ruled the software industry for nearly two decades. It's just fun to watch them sit together and play a game of chess.
RivieraKid 13y ago
Well, fish are pretty much stupid.
- MrBra 13y ago
  Are they or is it.. ?

jljljl 13y ago

"Bill Gates loses to LeBron James 232 - 0" Not sure what outcome was expected...

grecy 13y ago
It's Friday - News can be fun sometimes you know.
dagw 13y ago
The part that makes it news is that Bill Gates and Magnus Carlsen sat down and played chess, not that Gates lost.
- levosmetalo 13y ago
  Next time they should try doing a quick sort in Basic ;)
- jljljl 13y ago
  I do think it's a fun story. But the lede isn't "Bill Gates Plays Chess with Magnus Carlsen", it isn't even "Bill Gates loses to Magnus Carlsen". It's "Bill Gates loses to Magnus Carlsen in 9 moves".
ionforce 13y ago
Anderson Cooper once raced Michael Phelps and that was every gay man's dream. Sometimes it's not about being competitive. It's just TV.

rfnslyr 13y ago

Magnus Carlsen didn't start a billion dollar company, and Bill Gates isn't a chess god. Why is this article on HN? Who cares?

Bootvis 13y ago
Because it's fun to watch and I must say I was surprised to see that a genius like Gates played rather badly.
- ultimatedelman 13y ago
  being a genius in one thing doesn't always translate into others ;)
- rfnslyr 13y ago
  Yeah because chess is an INCREDIBLY hard game to get good at regardless of how smart you are. I've been playing for years and going to my local chess club and I'm still trash ahaha.
- Jtsummers 13y ago
  Skill in chess requires (at Carlsen's level) a great deal of intuition and knowledge and practice. Bill Gates is a talented programmer and businessman. Unless chess was a personal passion or interest, there would be no reason to expect him to be any better than the average person under pressure, faced with a 2-minute clock and a world champion.
- pachydermic 13y ago
  Yeah I'd say being smart doesn't necessarily help you play good chess - being dumb hurts, though. I wonder when the last time Gates even played chess? And even though he had way more time than Magnus did, 2 minutes is not a lot of time... Most blitz games are 3 or 5 minutes and if you're not an avid player (or at least used to it) then it's really hard to play fast like that. Magnus probably didn't have to think at all since he already knew the opening, whereas Gates was probably on his own from the third move on. Kudos to Gates for being a good sport.
- 13y ago

avenger123 13y ago

Respect for Bill. That was impressive. I'm not an avid Chess player but to play at that speed with his obviously gifted opponent and last that long is respectable.

goldenkey 13y ago
There's nothing super special about an amazing chess player that would let them check mate you in 9 movies unless you play horrendously. Grand Masters are not super heros of chess. They are 'comprehensive.' Lets be real rather than gaudy. I should mention that I am a chess master and have played GMs online.
- mphillips2357 13y ago
  This. Bill is a smart guy but that doesn't mean he played impressively well at all.
  - rizzom5000 13y ago
    Yeah, this looks like it was filmed live during a talk show. I highly doubt there was any interest from anyone involved, especially the audience, for a lengthy game.
- swombat 13y ago
  Having only two minutes on the clock and an opponent who plays really quickly would unnerve any inexperienced player and turn them quite easily into a horrendous player, IMHO.
- NAFV_P 13y ago
  Have you ever played against a formidable electronic opponent? I've heard they sometimes use unusual tactics.
- RoboTeddy 13y ago
  If an amateur had 10 hours to think about each move of a chess game, and the GM he was playing against had 1 second for each move (and couldn't think on the amateur's time), the GM would still _crush_ the amateur. GMs kind of are super heroes of chess. (it is true though that 9 moves is a silly short game. most amateurs would last longer)

tedsanders 13y ago

How is this news? Magnus Carlsen is good at chess. Bill Gates is bad at chess. How does this story add value to anyone's life? What was learned here? (sincerely curious)

prawks 13y ago
Fun. If people are more interested in either Bill Gates or Magnus Carlsen, then here's a starting point. Many people likely don't know who Magnus is, now they do. Bill Gates' involvement makes it more likely that people would have watched the video. Also, fun.
- tedsanders 13y ago
  Hmm, I used to play lots of chess and still follow the chess world, so this wasn't interesting or educational to me. But if people who aren't familiar with chess or Magnus Carlsen still found it fun or interesting, then that's good enough for me. :) Thanks for your sincere reply to my sincere question.
mikehearn 13y ago
Most of the time when people achieve world-class ability in something, they end up exclusively competing against others that have a similar talent level. It's worthwhile (and fun) to be occasionally reminded just how much of a talent gap there is between them and the average person.
- tedsanders 13y ago
  I see. I guess what's obvious to me - that a grandmaster can crush a chump in 30 seconds - is not obvious to all. I'm glad that so many people find it interesting.
  - mikehearn 13y ago
    I think that's true, particularly if you are well-versed in chess. The outcome that Carlsen would win is obvious to everyone, but the details – the actual minutia of the game – are not. For example (and I'm not a chess player), if you told me that Carlsen and Gates played and asked me to guess how many moves it would take for Carlsen to win, I would've put it in the 15-20 range. Nine was a genuine surprise. Even more enlightening, though obvious in retrospect, was how quickly and seemingly without thought Carlsen was able to play each move, almost as if he knew what move Gates would make before he made it. It makes perfect sense, but it was fascinating to watch and it made me appreciate how much of a second-nature chess truly is to Carlsen.

stiff 13y ago

Surprisingly this has brought some memories, I remember my father beating me in a chess game exactly the same way in just a few moves, back when I was a kid, my chess knowledge to this day sums up to knowing how the pieces move, and my father I think knew some more chess theory regarding strategy, but wasn't even a competitive player, so my laymen impression is that this was a really unremarkable game. Would someone competent at chess be so kind and explain what did Bill do wrong? Does this class of mistakes (castling "locking" the king in the corner) have a name?

astine 13y ago
Gate's first mistake wasn't castling, but taking Carlsen's pawn without having a sufficient a sufficient buildup for the exchange. He lost the center of the board as a result. That's just my two cents as I haven't played competitively since middle school.
Bootvis 13y ago
In general, castling is a good thing. In this case, and in retrospect, it was unwise. Carlsens pieces were aiming at the king side so further development and then castling queen side would have made more sense. I think Gates' first mistake was 3. Bd3. It blocks the d-pawn and the bishop isn't very active at Bd3. The computer gives white a small advantage after 2. .. d5 but a disadvantage after Bd3. It prefers to just take the pawn. With low depth the computer also plays Gates 4th to 6th move. So despite the threads on the king side castling seems possible. 6. h3 is not recommended but it thinks Blakcks response 7 .. Ne5 is a blunder. However, with his last move, allowing the mate, Gates really blunders. If he would have played Re1 instead the computer gives an advantage of almost 3 pawns. Note: the computer was Stockfish
raintrees 13y ago
My dad once challenged me (again) and I really didn't want to play, so I ran Fool's Mate on him (I had read it in some book of chess challenges). He never asked again, it was kind of ruined for him... Gotta watch those teenagers, I wasn't nice sometimes when my free reading was being interrupted. Edit: glad I grew up some...

throwaway_yy2Di 13y ago

1. e4 Nc6 2. Nf3 d5 3. Bd3 Nf6 4. exd5 Qxd5 5. Nc3 Qh5 6. 0-0 Bg4 7. h3 Ne5 ╔═══════════════╗ ║♜ … … … ♚ ♝ … ♜║ ║♟ ♟ ♟ … ♟ ♟ ♟ ♟║ ║… … … … … ♞ … …║ ║… … … … ♞ … … ♛║ ║… … … … … … ♝ …║ ║… … ♘ ♗ … ♘ … ♙║ ║♙ ♙ ♙ ♙ … ♙ ♙ …║ ║♖ … ♗ ♕ … ♖ ♔ …║ ╚═══════════════╝ 8. hxg4 Nfxg4 9. Nxe5 Qh2# ╔═══════════════╗ ║♜ … … … ♚ ♝ … ♜║ ║♟ ♟ ♟ … ♟ ♟ ♟ ♟║ ║… … … … … … … …║ ║… … … … ♘ … … …║ ║… … … … … … ♞ …║ ║… … ♘ ♗ … … … …║ ║♙ ♙ ♙ ♙ … ♙ ♙ ♛║ ║♖ … ♗ ♕ … ♖ ♔ …║ ╚═══════════════╝

pjungwir 13y ago
I'm no expert, but since all the other comments are just complaining, here are my (very amateur) thoughts: 1. e4 The most common opening in chess. Bill knows he's supposed to bring out some knights and bishops in these next few moves, which is good! 1. ... Nc6 2. Nf3 d5 Both black moves aim for an open center so he can make it a fast game with plenty options to attack. His move invites Bill to waste a turn changing the center from pawn vs pawn to queen vs nothing. To his credit Bill resists capturing for a bit! 3. Bd3 Doesn't make much sense to block your queen pawn like this. Of course he's trying to support e4 or win d5, but he's tying himself in knots. 3. ... Nf6 4. exd5 Qxd5 Magnus is ahead in development. 5. Nc3 Qh5 I'm sure Magnus would have played more conservatively against a better player. But in this case, he might as well attack! 6. 0-0 Seems like Bill stepped right into the line of fire here, but his blocked queen pawn makes everything else hard to move. 6. ... Bg4 Pinning the knight. This immobilizes yet another piece and makes Bill's queen even more stuck. 7. h3 Moving the pawns in front of your castled king usually weakens your defenses. And hxg4 is suicidal. 7. ... Ne5 Attack! Magnus is happy to give up material to gain time and open vulnerabilities. 8. hxg4 Nfxg4 9. Nxe5 Getting greedy, but even if he did something else, was there was any way to stop that queen? I've lost games more quickly than Bill, and not to grandmasters, so props to him for at least making reasonable moves.
- GraffitiTim 13y ago
  That analysis looks fine except for the end. At the end, Bill's 9. Nxe5 resulted in an immediate checkmate. Instead, 9. Re1 (Rook one square to the left) stops the mate since it gives white's king an escape route. In an even match, the game would be winning for white at that point because Magnus sacrificed a bishop for his now-failed attack. Magnus screwed up big-time or was goofing around. He would still be able to beat Gates from that losing position, but I'm very surprised he let that happen.

elorant 13y ago

The amazing part for someone like me who knows just basic chess is how aggressive Carlsen was. It’s scary seeing him coming on you with all those pieces and instantaneous moves. It also gives you a measure of his grandeur. It seems BillG got panicked given the little time he had to think his moves; at least I’d do.

oldstrangers 13y ago
Carlsen had a 30 second clock. Even an average player should've been able to put Carlsen into time pressure at that point, assuming you didn't fall into any silly traps like Gates did.
- deletes 13y ago
  It is a trick actually. The more time the opponent has, the easier it is for Carlsen, as he uses his opponents turn time to think. An average player doesn't have the skill to put him under pressure. +edit: you also usually get an extra second or two ( depending on the total time ) per move.
  - georgemcbay 13y ago
    Yeah he has time to think when the opponent is moving, but 30 seconds just isn't a lot of time if you consider there is a minimum practical time per move just based on the physical reality of being a human that has to move the piece and hit the clock, as illustrated pretty well by Carlsen's move where he knocked over a piece and burnt something like 3 seconds on one move. I think any decently skilled (but non-world-class) chess player could have run him down just by playing defensively. Of course, that would have been terrible tv, so we got someone who probably only plays casually getting steam-rolled by the "Justin Bieber of chess".
    - oldstrangers 13y ago
      "Justin Beiber of chess". 'The Mozart of chess' is the general consensus. The 'Justin Beiber of chess' is rather insulting.

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benjohnson 13y ago

Make me appreciate Go that much more - to me, Go seems a much more enjoyable game when the opponents are mismatched. Even though I'm pretty good at Go, it's enjoyable to play with a beginner. You don't have to trounce them to find satisfaction.

oldstrangers 13y ago
Magnus had a 30 second clock, so he basically had to trounce him.
MichaelGG 13y ago
I'm very new to Go, but I am continually impressed and amazed at its depth and beauty. A few tiny simple rules producing such complex gameplay is really awe-inspiring. Chess, with its many types of pieces, limited moves, many rules just doesn't have the same elegance.
auvrw 13y ago
yeah, go is fun. i'm always surprised to find out who's good at go. i've known some video game developers to be better than some grad students. so to return to the article, being good at these games, like any other skill, is, in part, a matter of practice. i don't think gates need (or does, actually) feel, "intellectually inadequate," unless he's been practicing chess almost full-time for the past 10 years.

deletes 13y ago

They should play monopoly. The game would be over even faster.

garethadams 13y ago
Bill Gates already won all the Monopoly in 2001

lazyant 13y ago

3. Bd3?

codegeek 13y ago

How many moves did it take for Magnus to beat Anand ?

dubcanada 13y ago
His final match was 58 moves

pjmorris 13y ago

The Gates biography 'Gates' by Stephen Manes recalls that Gates used to play chess against Paul Allen a great deal in the early days. IIRC, Gates would play very aggressively, leaving lots of opportunities to be attacked, and Allen would usually win the games. He was more of a poker player though.

jsyedidia 13y ago

Actually, Carlsen was playing for tricks (as might be reasonable when you have just 30 seconds). Bill Gates had a winning position on the 9th move. If instead of 9. Nxe5?? which allows an immediate checkmate, he had played 9. Re1!, he would have had a huge advantage. I'm an international master, and more importantly, my computer backs up my opinion. I'm surprised Carlsen played a game with just 30 seconds on his clock; it's easy to lose in that situation since you simply don't have enough time to make more than about 30 moves. And by the way, the best player in the world at ridiculously short time controls ("bullet chess") like 1 minute for the game is Hikaru Nakamura, the top-rated American player, not Magnus Carlsen. Nakamura tends to play soundly in these time controls. Look at this video for a game where Nakamura plays against Grandmaster Max Dlugy (another bullet chess expert) with kibitzing by Grandmaster Ben Finegold: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzrap8Vtyq8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzrap8Vtyq8

willvarfar 13y ago
Carlsen actually said he was just playing that for tricks, and started trying to explain this in the Skarvlan show itself, but camera pans quickly away.
- Ironlink 13y ago
  The episode is available here http://www.svtplay.se/video/1753565/del-3-av-12 http://www.svtplay.se/video/1753565/del-3-av-12 but you need to understand Norwegian (speech) or Swedish (subtitles). Edit: The preamble to the chess game starts at 53:00 and is in English.
haberman 13y ago
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzrap8Vtyq8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzrap8Vtyq8 I'm going to go for the most pedestrian, naive chess commentary ever by noting that at 0:20 it looks like there is a road through the middle of the board.
- GraffitiTim 13y ago
  If you mean the vertical line (horizontal from camera perspective) of squares with no pieces on it, that's called an open file, and it's an important concept in chess. Rooks on an open file are generally more powerful.

twobits 13y ago

Well, when I was a child, my chess playing future was taken down in flames by the chess program I had. In the easiest setting, I would lose in a few moves. That proved not to be very motivating.

megablast 13y ago

When you have all the openings memorised, as the champs do, it is not really playing until 10 or 20 moves in. It is not really playing a game in this situation, it is Magnus going through the motions.

gk1 13y ago
That's only the case when both players know the openings and follow "textbook" moves throughout the opening. When playing against amateurs, you're usually out of the memorized lines in just a few moves, so at that point it just becomes tactical.

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sayemm 13y ago

Chess isn't his game, bridge is: http://www.buffettcup.com/Default.aspx?tabid=69 http://www.buffettcup.com/Default.aspx?tabid=69 http://www.thegatesnotes.com/Personal/What-Makes-for-a-Good-Bridge-Partner http://www.thegatesnotes.com/Personal/What-Makes-for-a-Good-... http://www.larryco.com/OldStuff/Gates4.html http://www.larryco.com/OldStuff/Gates4.html

packetslave 13y ago

Carlsen visited Google last week and played 10 simultaneous games against Googlers. Chessbase did a writeup here: http://en.chessbase.com/post/carlsen-google http://en.chessbase.com/post/carlsen-google TL;DR: Carlsen went 10-0 with only one close game, against the highest rated player (2168)

dudus 13y ago
Not a very avid chess player but I had a lot of fun going over your game notes. Thanks and congrats for the achievements in that game.

willvarfar 13y ago

I watched the Skavlan show tonight, and found the whole thing very fun. The true story of Irish adoptions was particularly harrowing, but the chess match lightened the load. It didn't seem that Bill knew he was going to be asked to play chess, and he seemed to take it in good humour. Bill prefaced the game with apologies that nobody should expect much and that he was a much better Go player.

scotty79 13y ago

As a kid I played a lot of chess with one of my childhood friends. I was always (almost?) winning. Imagine my surprise when in high-school I played with a guy who learned to play chess as a kid. He beat me just as fast as Bill Gates got beaten. Then he beat me, but slower in subsequent 7 games that day and then some over the following months. But one day I finally beat him. I guess he got a little careless after all that wins and I learned good bit from him. Interestingly I beat his ass in checkers every time. Also interestingly roughly about the same time I played chess with an actual math genius (distance between two lines of his reasoning required whole page of careful explanation for me) and he was making dumbest moves I've seen because he barely ever played chess before. Games are not about thinking. By thinking long and hard you can get to 5-10% of skill of a master. The rest is learning from books and stronger opponents. I had another friend. He had played significantly more unreal tournament than quake, I just the opposite. I was kicking his ass 50 to 1 in quake even on a slower computer with smaller monitor and crappier mouse, but he was kicking my ass 50 to 1 in Unreal Tournament and I wasn't bad at that game. I was as good as any of my friends except for this guy. I guess my point is that skill is very specific to the game and must be earned.

argumentum 13y ago

> "Wow, that was fast," he said to Carlsen, whose rockstar appeal has won him the moniker the "Justin Bieber of chess." "Justin Bieber of chess." really?

krapp 13y ago
But... isn't Magnus Carlsen good at chess? I don't understand...
- argumentum 13y ago
  What exactly is Justin Bieber so good at to earn such a comparison? Not singing, not composing music, not dancing .. no one has ever claimed he's the "world #1" at anything other than being celebrity amongst other pre-teen children. And Magnus Carlsen is certainly not a celebrity amongst pre-teen children, so the comparison makes no sense.
  - baddox 13y ago
    > What exactly is Justin Bieber so good at to earn such a comparison? The key is right there in the sentence. The comparison being made is "rockstar of chess," referring not necessarily to "skill" or "talent," but to the ability to be famous worldwide.
  - vecter 13y ago
    Bieber is actually quite a good singer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko8gepM8MBU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko8gepM8MBU. It's easy to lose sight of that given his stardom, but he got his start based on raw singing talent.
    - argumentum 13y ago
      Of course he's likely in the top 0.001% of singing talent, but would you say he's literally "the best" singer in the world regardless of age?
  - Jonovono 13y ago

hawkharris 13y ago

Bill Gates also famously plays cards and other one-on-one games with Warren Buffet. I would love to have an insight into the conversations that take place during those games. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP1nAvi85g0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP1nAvi85g0

ternaryoperator 13y ago
Gates is actually a decent bridge player. Buffett, however, is definitely at expert level. He plays a lot online, generally with a former women's world champ as his partner.
wisty 13y ago
Also, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontransitive_dice http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontransitive_dice Warren Buffet had a collection of non-transitive dice (dice with non-standard numbers, with special properties ... basically a paper-scissors-rock set of dice). He offered Bill a bet, and suggested Bill pick the dice first (and Warren would then pick the dice most likely to beat Bill's). Bill, of course, realised it was some sort of trick, and examined the dice, then suggested Warren pick first.

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vacri 13y ago

Gates should challenge Carlsen to a speed game of Write the Disk Operating Sytem Before the Big Meeting Next Week, methinks.

tomato_sausage 13y ago

Seeing as I went 16 moves against Kasparov as a complete noob to chess, does that make me better than Bill Gates? My programming ability and checkbook seem to disagree, however. :/

lifeisstillgood 13y ago

There is a Derren Brown (UK Illusionist) piece where he plays seven opponents at once, walking round in a big circle, and amazingly wins 4 out of 7. Afterwards the explanation is simple - he played 6 masters or grandmasters, and one guy off the street. And simply (!) memorised the moves of player A and made them against player C, B to D etc. All he had to do was play a decent game against the guy off the street and he would always beat 50%

lostcolony 13y ago
That's a quite clever application of the one ahead principle
pslam 13y ago
That's quite a security hack. The Grandmasters are being made to play each other via him - they are kind of oracles.
has2k1 13y ago
He was probably inspired by a sub-plot in Sydney Sheldon's "If Tomorrow Comes" (1985).
pgopalan 13y ago
This works only if the colors are reversed in subsequent boards. To avoid this trick, all traditional simuls (short for simultaneous play - where one chess master plays many people) have two simple rules: 1)The chess master has the same color in all the boards 2) The color of the chess master's pieces are usually white Since white always makes the first move in a chess game, it is not possible to copy the game from board A and play it in board B with reverse colors.

bborud 13y ago

What did people expect? For Bill Gates' bodyguards to break both of Magnus arms and Bill taunting him "whatsamatter bitch? are you gonna move? tick-tock". Why is this on HN?

alexeisadeski3 13y ago
MS-DOS 13

haberman 13y ago

It's funny because you know that in there somewhere Bill Gates must still have his former extremely competitive self, and getting beat so badly has got to be humbling. He's a great sport about it though.

venomsnake 13y ago
A loss is painful only when you have reasonable chance to win.
visarga 13y ago
Letting yourself get beat at chess, made fun of by talk shows or using self deprecating humor are strategies for making people to like you more. He got what he wanted, if he was just doing this to gain geek admiration.

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ExpiredLink 13y ago

How long would it take you to lose against Mike Tyson in a boxing fight?

lbolla 13y ago

Best commentary of the match, by Jerry! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0QdI0rVoHA&feature=em-uploademail http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0QdI0rVoHA&feature=em-upload...