5 ms·

It's also a social movement that cares about what is the epitome of a first-world-problem.

jimktrains2 13y ago
Not necessarily. If a 3rd world farmer is hamstrung by licenses on any tools they have (and seeds they grow), that could prevent them from making those tools better, or crossbreeding those seeds. Same with educational software and material. Just because the focus is mainly on software, which is admittedly a 1st world problem, doesn't mean the ideals can't apply to the 3rd world as well.
- chc 13y ago
  Third-world farmers won't be hamstrung by licenses because the third world does not care about licenses.
  - e12e 13y ago
    Only until a first-world company has a third world militia torch his fields for non-compliance.
- yarou 13y ago
  Exactly. You can extend it to pharma drugs as well, which potentially could save millions of lives. I respect rms' work philosophically, and he needs to take a hard line because his detractors are so entrenched in the power structures of the world.
- hcarvalhoalves 13y ago
  The 3rd world uses software too, you know...
vezzy-fnord 13y ago
Not at all when you realize that the developed and a large part of the developing world is absolutely dominated by computing and software. We're heading towards a completely digital society of ubiquitous computing in every conceivable part of our lives, and there is no denying this. Whoever controls our software, controls our world. Free software isn't a first world problem, it's a gigantic and urgent issue. It's only a shame that so many people don't realize this. Open source works for a lot of cases (I wholly think BSD licensing is just fine for Clang/LLVM and disagree with RMS on this one), but it's just a pragmatic element. Merely a part of free software. Something being open source doesn't imply any particular redistribution rights and ethical guidelines by itself.
jfb 13y ago
I would argue instead that it is a movement that is making a strong ethical claim.
3am 13y ago
Look, I don't carry water for FSF or Stallman, but it's easy to make that statement in the context in the world they helped create. You can't imagine how much OS licensing used to cost, which would definitely be an impediment to non first-world populations (from an infrastructure, education, and economic point of view to the extent they can be separated) edit: to expound, the world they helped create is one where there is a durable, vibrant, and mainstream OSS culture where anyone with a halfway decent internet connection can download the source code & compilation tools for a state of the art OS. Radicals become irrelevant when they win.
- gress 13y ago
  It's not obvious at all that the GPL had anything to do with causing OS licensing fees to collapse. There are numerous high quality open source operating systems that are not based on the GPL, and the general reduction in price of commercial OSs is a function if competition between corporations.
belorn 13y ago
I think the street children in Bangalore would disagree.[1] People set up computer centers to help the poorest of the poor. Its a place where they can learn and express themselves. Try set up such place and then pay for the OS, the text editor, the programming language, the painting program, the video editing, and so on. Compare that to finding some old used hardware being unused, and simply start helping the community immediately. [1] If you want to hear more, I suggest one of the many talks from Eben Moglen. For a transcript of one, see https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/09NTC_plenary:_Eben_Moglen https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/09NTC_plenary:_Eben_Moglen but its a bit short on details.

Not necessarily. If a 3rd world farmer is hamstrung by licenses on any tools they have (and seeds they grow), that could prevent them from making those tools better, or crossbreeding those seeds. Same with educational software and material. Just because the focus is mainly on software, which is admittedly a 1st world problem, doesn't mean the ideals can't apply to the 3rd world as well.

chc 13y ago
Third-world farmers won't be hamstrung by licenses because the third world does not care about licenses.
- e12e 13y ago
  Only until a first-world company has a third world militia torch his fields for non-compliance.
yarou 13y ago
Exactly. You can extend it to pharma drugs as well, which potentially could save millions of lives. I respect rms' work philosophically, and he needs to take a hard line because his detractors are so entrenched in the power structures of the world.
hcarvalhoalves 13y ago
The 3rd world uses software too, you know...

vezzy-fnord 13y ago

Not at all when you realize that the developed and a large part of the developing world is absolutely dominated by computing and software. We're heading towards a completely digital society of ubiquitous computing in every conceivable part of our lives, and there is no denying this. Whoever controls our software, controls our world. Free software isn't a first world problem, it's a gigantic and urgent issue. It's only a shame that so many people don't realize this. Open source works for a lot of cases (I wholly think BSD licensing is just fine for Clang/LLVM and disagree with RMS on this one), but it's just a pragmatic element. Merely a part of free software. Something being open source doesn't imply any particular redistribution rights and ethical guidelines by itself.

jfb 13y ago

I would argue instead that it is a movement that is making a strong ethical claim.

3am 13y ago

Look, I don't carry water for FSF or Stallman, but it's easy to make that statement in the context in the world they helped create. You can't imagine how much OS licensing used to cost, which would definitely be an impediment to non first-world populations (from an infrastructure, education, and economic point of view to the extent they can be separated) edit: to expound, the world they helped create is one where there is a durable, vibrant, and mainstream OSS culture where anyone with a halfway decent internet connection can download the source code & compilation tools for a state of the art OS. Radicals become irrelevant when they win.

gress 13y ago
It's not obvious at all that the GPL had anything to do with causing OS licensing fees to collapse. There are numerous high quality open source operating systems that are not based on the GPL, and the general reduction in price of commercial OSs is a function if competition between corporations.

belorn 13y ago

I think the street children in Bangalore would disagree.[1] People set up computer centers to help the poorest of the poor. Its a place where they can learn and express themselves. Try set up such place and then pay for the OS, the text editor, the programming language, the painting program, the video editing, and so on. Compare that to finding some old used hardware being unused, and simply start helping the community immediately. [1] If you want to hear more, I suggest one of the many talks from Eben Moglen. For a transcript of one, see https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/09NTC_plenary:_Eben_Moglen https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/09NTC_plenary:_Eben_Moglen but its a bit short on details.