10 ms·

Have you had an opposite gender friend review your profile?

scarmig 13y ago
The generally accepted rule is 1) Be attractive and 2) Don't be unattractive. That's more than a bit reductionist, of course, but tweaking your profile text or message texts only helps at the margins, assuming you don't have deal breakers. com2kid isn't going to be getting dozens of inbound messages a month just by revising his profile (sorry, com2kid). (On the other hand, updating your pictures genuinely can give you many, many more views, messages, and responses.)
- DannyBee 13y ago
  Sorry, but this is just bullshit. It's what guys tell themselves because they can't write reasonable profiles or write non-creepy messages to women. I've read what most guys send my female friends on okcupid. Not just the random idiots, but what i would think would be otherwise intelligent people. It often comes off as desperate or creepy. It's certainly true that it helps to be attractive. But I'm an average looking guy, but i have no problem finding dates on okcupid. I've summarized the average guy profile here: http://www.okcupid.com/profile/RegularOKCGuy?disable_mobile=1 http://www.okcupid.com/profile/RegularOKCGuy?disable_mobile=... (humorously, this profile gets almost as many likes as my real profile) Realistically, have someone of the opposite sex that is the type of person you want to attract, read your profile. Ask them questions about what they like and don't. That will solve your profile problems. As for messages, this is harder.
  - com2kid 13y ago
    > I've summarized the average guy profile here: http://www.okcupid.com/profile/RegularOKCGuy?disable_mobile=.. http://www.okcupid.com/profile/RegularOKCGuy?disable_mobile=.... Annoyingly enough very similar to my profile! :P But yeah. I have a good job, I go to the gym and workout, what the heck else am I expected to do? I'm working my ass off to make a positive impact on the world. Fuck if I am going to drop that so I can be a narcissistic asshole, quit my job, and fly around the world discovering myself. As for the messages I send, I try my best to be original and different, for example, What does make you laugh? The silliness of life? Those who take themselves too seriously, or those who take themselves not seriously at all? Both are amusing in their own way, though I cannot understand why one would pain themselves by taking life seriously! Not to say life is without value, life most certainly has value, and helping others is the noblest of callings. But, well, I own a 5 foot long remote controlled floating dolphin. I gave up on being 100% sane long ago. Technically I am sane, but I do enjoy having fun toying around with things. I also drive a bright orange car! What about yourself? What is your alarm clock set to? I once set my dad's cell phone ringer to a rooster crowing. He was not pleased, although my mother almost fell out of her chair laughing. (My current alarm is Violin music, in all honesty, it is not that good at waking me up!) That message apparently didn't go over very well! Other messages are sent such as Hmm, a good cup of coffee may be easy to find, but I have had to teach myself how to make a good cup of tea! I find the ritual itself can be fairly relaxing. (Depends on the culture of the tea of course, some teas are easier to prepare than others!) Is your work in the heathcare industry on something like replacing old people with robots? Someone should get on that. I know for a fact that the day I turn 60, I want a super strong steel alloy robot body. Actually I might take that offer a bit sooner than 60, it'd be hard to wait! Which also apparently didn't go over well either!
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - mjmahone17 13y ago
      Your messages sound really stilted and like you're really nervous. They jump from one random topic to the next, without actually showing anything uniquely you. > But, well, I own a 5 foot long remote controlled floating dolphin. I gave up on being 100% sane long ago. Technically I am sane, but I do enjoy having fun toying around with things. I also drive a bright orange car! What this says: I own toys, you should know about them! Also, I think I'm "crazy!" And I have an awesome car, look at my success! It makes you sound kind of like you're filling your life with things because you've been socially rejected. If that whole block of indented text was your entire first message, then it's incredibly rambly and full of similar flags. One of my most successful stream of messages went something like this: noticing that my potential date lived in Cambridge, I asked if they had explored the area (they said they were adventurous in their profile). When they responded with "Yeah, I've found some cool stuff", I then asked if they'd found the secret staircase that led to the lair of angry geese on the river? This establishes both that 1. I've actually read their profile, and 2. I have some knowledge they would be interested in, and that they can share in. Here's how I'd rephrase your second message: I noticed from your profile that you enjoy a good cup of tea. Do you make your own, or have you visited a lot of different tea houses? You're not overwhelming the other person with information, just asking a question that, if they've shown an interest, they're generally really happy to expand on. Don't treat your messages like emails or letters, but more like instant messages. Keep them short and easy to respond to, and let the other person tell you some of their story. Edit: Also, don't ask so many things! It's hard enough for someone to want to answer a single question you ask them. Answering 3 or more is too much effort: if they wanted to start answering your first one, but kept reading instead, you've failed to convert, and by the third one they've likely skipped on to someone else's message.
      - jliechti1 13y ago
        This is the right approach. Just ask a simple question that shows you read the person's profile and ask them to expand on something you would like to know more about (and it should be something you are genuinely curious about). Also, stay away from anything romantic/sexual, and you'll stick out way more compared to all the crazy/creepy guys that are messaging her.
  - sliverstorm 13y ago
    It's certainly true that it helps to be attractive I think specifically in this context what is meant is 1) have good pictures 2) don't have bad pictures Even OKc harps on pictures, because they know from their data that pictures are important.
    - DannyBee 13y ago
      Yes. In fact, if you have good pictures, okcupid will let you know. Among other things, you will get an email that says "We just detected that you're now among the most attractive people on OkCupid. ...", once the clickthroughs on your profile increase. (I thought they send this to everyone, but it turns out not to be true, it's related to profile clickthroughs. See http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2012/12/20/is-being-one-of-the-most-attractive-people-on-okcupid-a-permanent-status/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2012/12/20/is-being-one-of...) They also have the mybestface stuff, which helps a lot.
  - scarmig 13y ago
    Did I say a typical guy can't get dates on OkC? No. It's easy to--I'm somewhat below average in the looks department, but I had a steady stream of dates (probably averaging somewhere between 1 and 2 per week) on OkC while I was on it (until I met my current partner on it). The point is that you're not suddenly going to triple or quadruple your inbound message rate or reply rate by improving your written profile. This much is clear, and the fact that your average guy profile gets nearly as much positive attention as your real profile indicates as much. However, smartly choosing quality pictures is probably the one thing anyone should do, and you're going to get far more value back for the investment than putting hours writing a profile slightly more witty and more interesting than your previous profile. It triples, or quadruples, or quintuples your reply rates. ETA: Another way to look at it is this: someone who writes a boring profile and sends stilted messages will, at best, only be able to write a slightly less boring profile and won't in general be able to improve their crappy messages (with the assumption that the profile or messages don't contain stupid dealbreakers in the first place), no matter how much effort they put into the rewrite. If writing is an area of weakness for you, then rewriting isn't going to do much good for you. On the other hand, crappy pictures can be replaced in a matter of hours with something that anyone can tell is much better, even if you're not generally considered attractive.
    - DannyBee 13y ago
      "The point is that you're not suddenly going to triple or quadruple your inbound message rate or reply rate by improving your written profile." I strongly disagree. I have A/B tested written profiles on okcupid and elsewhere, and found it matters a lot. " This much is clear, and the fact that your average guy profile gets nearly as much positive attention as your real profile indicates as much." Actually, the attention is mainly from women who think it's hilarious :) "However, smartly choosing quality pictures is probably the one thing anyone should do, and you're going to get far more value back for the investment than putting hours writing a profile slightly more witty and more interesting than your previous profile. It triples, or quadruples, or quintuples your reply rates. " I don't disagree with this either. Far too many people have profile pictures that they don't look comfortable or confident in. For example, too many people dress/etc based on what they think people think looks good, instead of what makes them feel actually confident and attractive. They look uncomfortable as hell, and it's completely obvious to the outside world.
  - defen 13y ago
    That profile is hilarious. Maybe I'm giving the average OKC woman too much credit, but are you sure they aren't picking up on the satire?
- Gracana 13y ago
  Plenty of average and unattractive people are in happy relationships. That "rule" is just something that uninteresting people tell themselves to try to avoid taking responsibility for their situation.
  - klipt 13y ago
    So you'd say the real rule is "be interesting"? The problem is there are plenty of people with passionate, interesting lives, but who aren't good at communicating that interest, or have interests that don't appeal to (most of) the opposite sex. In dating, where first impressions are everything, it's often more important to appear interesting than be interesting.
    - nostrademons 13y ago
      The real rule is "be interested". Being interesting follows from that, but being interested is the part you can control. I've found that when people have persistent difficulties finding a partner, it's almost always because they aren't actually interested in the women they date, but have some platonic ideal of a woman that they think they ought to date and so are dating the wrong people.
      - klipt 13y ago
        Sure (I too have read 'How to Win Friends and Influence People') - but that only works if the other person is already interested in you. One sided interest just comes across as creepy.
        nostrademons 13y ago
        Depends on the context. One-sided interest that's fixated on one particular characteristic comes across as creepy - it's obvious when it's a physical characteristic, but it's also just as creepy to be particularly interested in someone's career, or house, or car, or any other thing. One-sided interest that's diffuse tends to become two-sided interest, because it makes you seem engaged with the world, and that's a very attractive quality for a lot of people. Basically, be interested in everyone and you'll find that everyone is interested in you, while if you're interested in only one person she probably won't be interested in you.
- com2kid 13y ago
  I don't think I'm ugly[0], but it is hard to be sure! ;) I have a friend of mine who is short (generally considered a disadvantage) and who has one miserable picture, but his messages are good enough that he has a good success rate on OKC. (His messages also violate every guideline, they are at least 5 paragraphs long and very in depth!) The problem is, it is disheartening in the extreme. Spending years going to the gym and getting in shape, get promotions at work, buy a house, all for naught. Doing the math, I figured it'd take me a 3 or 4 dozen dates to get used to socializing with women in a dating environment. The problem is in the last 2 years my success rate at getting dates has plummeted, I used to be able get a date a week w/o issue, now, months upon months of work to get one date. Ugh. This obviously sets back progress of skill acquisition. It is annoying, I am one of those people who is otherwise successful, but the amount of contact I had with women before joining my current team @ work was almost nil, so an entire skillset[1] isn't there. OKC helps because it creates a way by which to meet women (for reference only one of my friends has any contact with women either!), but it involves what distinctly looks like black magic to be successful on it. [0]http://ak2.okccdn.com/php/load_okc_image.php/images/150x150/558x800/395x23/1056x684/0/16548340405924187691.jpeg http://ak2.okccdn.com/php/load_okc_image.php/images/150x150/... [1]Recognizing non-verbal cross-gender communications. A subset of non-verbal communications in general of course, but there are (thankfully!) now good written resources on general purpose non-verbal communications.
  - mjmahone17 13y ago
    Join a dance program. Your issue seems to be lack of confidence around women in general, not specifically in a dating environment. Get comfortable with your body in an environment where a lot of women are. And don't try to date the women you dance with, at least not initially. Dance is just an easy thing to join: you could also go to underground music venues, join a co-ed softball/volleyball/tae kwon do team, take arts classes at a community college or join a book club at your library.
    - stevewillows 13y ago
      This is fantastic advice! I think dancing above all others will speed up the process of confidence around the ladies.
com2kid 13y ago
Yup, that I have. Everything is so very subjective though, even pictures!

The generally accepted rule is 1) Be attractive and 2) Don't be unattractive. That's more than a bit reductionist, of course, but tweaking your profile text or message texts only helps at the margins, assuming you don't have deal breakers. com2kid isn't going to be getting dozens of inbound messages a month just by revising his profile (sorry, com2kid). (On the other hand, updating your pictures genuinely can give you many, many more views, messages, and responses.)

DannyBee 13y ago
Sorry, but this is just bullshit. It's what guys tell themselves because they can't write reasonable profiles or write non-creepy messages to women. I've read what most guys send my female friends on okcupid. Not just the random idiots, but what i would think would be otherwise intelligent people. It often comes off as desperate or creepy. It's certainly true that it helps to be attractive. But I'm an average looking guy, but i have no problem finding dates on okcupid. I've summarized the average guy profile here: http://www.okcupid.com/profile/RegularOKCGuy?disable_mobile=1 http://www.okcupid.com/profile/RegularOKCGuy?disable_mobile=... (humorously, this profile gets almost as many likes as my real profile) Realistically, have someone of the opposite sex that is the type of person you want to attract, read your profile. Ask them questions about what they like and don't. That will solve your profile problems. As for messages, this is harder.
- com2kid 13y ago
  > I've summarized the average guy profile here: http://www.okcupid.com/profile/RegularOKCGuy?disable_mobile=.. http://www.okcupid.com/profile/RegularOKCGuy?disable_mobile=.... Annoyingly enough very similar to my profile! :P But yeah. I have a good job, I go to the gym and workout, what the heck else am I expected to do? I'm working my ass off to make a positive impact on the world. Fuck if I am going to drop that so I can be a narcissistic asshole, quit my job, and fly around the world discovering myself. As for the messages I send, I try my best to be original and different, for example, What does make you laugh? The silliness of life? Those who take themselves too seriously, or those who take themselves not seriously at all? Both are amusing in their own way, though I cannot understand why one would pain themselves by taking life seriously! Not to say life is without value, life most certainly has value, and helping others is the noblest of callings. But, well, I own a 5 foot long remote controlled floating dolphin. I gave up on being 100% sane long ago. Technically I am sane, but I do enjoy having fun toying around with things. I also drive a bright orange car! What about yourself? What is your alarm clock set to? I once set my dad's cell phone ringer to a rooster crowing. He was not pleased, although my mother almost fell out of her chair laughing. (My current alarm is Violin music, in all honesty, it is not that good at waking me up!) That message apparently didn't go over very well! Other messages are sent such as Hmm, a good cup of coffee may be easy to find, but I have had to teach myself how to make a good cup of tea! I find the ritual itself can be fairly relaxing. (Depends on the culture of the tea of course, some teas are easier to prepare than others!) Is your work in the heathcare industry on something like replacing old people with robots? Someone should get on that. I know for a fact that the day I turn 60, I want a super strong steel alloy robot body. Actually I might take that offer a bit sooner than 60, it'd be hard to wait! Which also apparently didn't go over well either!
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - mjmahone17 13y ago
    Your messages sound really stilted and like you're really nervous. They jump from one random topic to the next, without actually showing anything uniquely you. > But, well, I own a 5 foot long remote controlled floating dolphin. I gave up on being 100% sane long ago. Technically I am sane, but I do enjoy having fun toying around with things. I also drive a bright orange car! What this says: I own toys, you should know about them! Also, I think I'm "crazy!" And I have an awesome car, look at my success! It makes you sound kind of like you're filling your life with things because you've been socially rejected. If that whole block of indented text was your entire first message, then it's incredibly rambly and full of similar flags. One of my most successful stream of messages went something like this: noticing that my potential date lived in Cambridge, I asked if they had explored the area (they said they were adventurous in their profile). When they responded with "Yeah, I've found some cool stuff", I then asked if they'd found the secret staircase that led to the lair of angry geese on the river? This establishes both that 1. I've actually read their profile, and 2. I have some knowledge they would be interested in, and that they can share in. Here's how I'd rephrase your second message: I noticed from your profile that you enjoy a good cup of tea. Do you make your own, or have you visited a lot of different tea houses? You're not overwhelming the other person with information, just asking a question that, if they've shown an interest, they're generally really happy to expand on. Don't treat your messages like emails or letters, but more like instant messages. Keep them short and easy to respond to, and let the other person tell you some of their story. Edit: Also, don't ask so many things! It's hard enough for someone to want to answer a single question you ask them. Answering 3 or more is too much effort: if they wanted to start answering your first one, but kept reading instead, you've failed to convert, and by the third one they've likely skipped on to someone else's message.
    - jliechti1 13y ago
      This is the right approach. Just ask a simple question that shows you read the person's profile and ask them to expand on something you would like to know more about (and it should be something you are genuinely curious about). Also, stay away from anything romantic/sexual, and you'll stick out way more compared to all the crazy/creepy guys that are messaging her.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  It's certainly true that it helps to be attractive I think specifically in this context what is meant is 1) have good pictures 2) don't have bad pictures Even OKc harps on pictures, because they know from their data that pictures are important.
  - DannyBee 13y ago
    Yes. In fact, if you have good pictures, okcupid will let you know. Among other things, you will get an email that says "We just detected that you're now among the most attractive people on OkCupid. ...", once the clickthroughs on your profile increase. (I thought they send this to everyone, but it turns out not to be true, it's related to profile clickthroughs. See http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2012/12/20/is-being-one-of-the-most-attractive-people-on-okcupid-a-permanent-status/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2012/12/20/is-being-one-of...) They also have the mybestface stuff, which helps a lot.
- scarmig 13y ago
  Did I say a typical guy can't get dates on OkC? No. It's easy to--I'm somewhat below average in the looks department, but I had a steady stream of dates (probably averaging somewhere between 1 and 2 per week) on OkC while I was on it (until I met my current partner on it). The point is that you're not suddenly going to triple or quadruple your inbound message rate or reply rate by improving your written profile. This much is clear, and the fact that your average guy profile gets nearly as much positive attention as your real profile indicates as much. However, smartly choosing quality pictures is probably the one thing anyone should do, and you're going to get far more value back for the investment than putting hours writing a profile slightly more witty and more interesting than your previous profile. It triples, or quadruples, or quintuples your reply rates. ETA: Another way to look at it is this: someone who writes a boring profile and sends stilted messages will, at best, only be able to write a slightly less boring profile and won't in general be able to improve their crappy messages (with the assumption that the profile or messages don't contain stupid dealbreakers in the first place), no matter how much effort they put into the rewrite. If writing is an area of weakness for you, then rewriting isn't going to do much good for you. On the other hand, crappy pictures can be replaced in a matter of hours with something that anyone can tell is much better, even if you're not generally considered attractive.
  - DannyBee 13y ago
    "The point is that you're not suddenly going to triple or quadruple your inbound message rate or reply rate by improving your written profile." I strongly disagree. I have A/B tested written profiles on okcupid and elsewhere, and found it matters a lot. " This much is clear, and the fact that your average guy profile gets nearly as much positive attention as your real profile indicates as much." Actually, the attention is mainly from women who think it's hilarious :) "However, smartly choosing quality pictures is probably the one thing anyone should do, and you're going to get far more value back for the investment than putting hours writing a profile slightly more witty and more interesting than your previous profile. It triples, or quadruples, or quintuples your reply rates. " I don't disagree with this either. Far too many people have profile pictures that they don't look comfortable or confident in. For example, too many people dress/etc based on what they think people think looks good, instead of what makes them feel actually confident and attractive. They look uncomfortable as hell, and it's completely obvious to the outside world.
- defen 13y ago
  That profile is hilarious. Maybe I'm giving the average OKC woman too much credit, but are you sure they aren't picking up on the satire?
Gracana 13y ago
Plenty of average and unattractive people are in happy relationships. That "rule" is just something that uninteresting people tell themselves to try to avoid taking responsibility for their situation.
- klipt 13y ago
  So you'd say the real rule is "be interesting"? The problem is there are plenty of people with passionate, interesting lives, but who aren't good at communicating that interest, or have interests that don't appeal to (most of) the opposite sex. In dating, where first impressions are everything, it's often more important to appear interesting than be interesting.
  - nostrademons 13y ago
    The real rule is "be interested". Being interesting follows from that, but being interested is the part you can control. I've found that when people have persistent difficulties finding a partner, it's almost always because they aren't actually interested in the women they date, but have some platonic ideal of a woman that they think they ought to date and so are dating the wrong people.
    - klipt 13y ago
      Sure (I too have read 'How to Win Friends and Influence People') - but that only works if the other person is already interested in you. One sided interest just comes across as creepy.
      - nostrademons 13y ago
        Depends on the context. One-sided interest that's fixated on one particular characteristic comes across as creepy - it's obvious when it's a physical characteristic, but it's also just as creepy to be particularly interested in someone's career, or house, or car, or any other thing. One-sided interest that's diffuse tends to become two-sided interest, because it makes you seem engaged with the world, and that's a very attractive quality for a lot of people. Basically, be interested in everyone and you'll find that everyone is interested in you, while if you're interested in only one person she probably won't be interested in you.
com2kid 13y ago
I don't think I'm ugly[0], but it is hard to be sure! ;) I have a friend of mine who is short (generally considered a disadvantage) and who has one miserable picture, but his messages are good enough that he has a good success rate on OKC. (His messages also violate every guideline, they are at least 5 paragraphs long and very in depth!) The problem is, it is disheartening in the extreme. Spending years going to the gym and getting in shape, get promotions at work, buy a house, all for naught. Doing the math, I figured it'd take me a 3 or 4 dozen dates to get used to socializing with women in a dating environment. The problem is in the last 2 years my success rate at getting dates has plummeted, I used to be able get a date a week w/o issue, now, months upon months of work to get one date. Ugh. This obviously sets back progress of skill acquisition. It is annoying, I am one of those people who is otherwise successful, but the amount of contact I had with women before joining my current team @ work was almost nil, so an entire skillset[1] isn't there. OKC helps because it creates a way by which to meet women (for reference only one of my friends has any contact with women either!), but it involves what distinctly looks like black magic to be successful on it. [0]http://ak2.okccdn.com/php/load_okc_image.php/images/150x150/558x800/395x23/1056x684/0/16548340405924187691.jpeg http://ak2.okccdn.com/php/load_okc_image.php/images/150x150/... [1]Recognizing non-verbal cross-gender communications. A subset of non-verbal communications in general of course, but there are (thankfully!) now good written resources on general purpose non-verbal communications.
- mjmahone17 13y ago
  Join a dance program. Your issue seems to be lack of confidence around women in general, not specifically in a dating environment. Get comfortable with your body in an environment where a lot of women are. And don't try to date the women you dance with, at least not initially. Dance is just an easy thing to join: you could also go to underground music venues, join a co-ed softball/volleyball/tae kwon do team, take arts classes at a community college or join a book club at your library.
  - stevewillows 13y ago
    This is fantastic advice! I think dancing above all others will speed up the process of confidence around the ladies.

com2kid 13y ago

Yup, that I have. Everything is so very subjective though, even pictures!