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Countries Where Windows Phone Outsells The iPhone
- kwanbis 13y agoWhat country is Columbia?
- girvo 13y agoLook. I don't hate Windows Phone, my girlfriend has the HTC 8X and adores it. With the latest set of big apps ported (like Instagram and Snapchat), it's quite nice. The interface is good, and fast on modest hardware. The browser is pretty meh. PIM functionality is good, as you'd expect from Windows Mobiles pedigree. But comparing an entire ecosystem of phones (with one of the biggest sellers being the $100 Nokia 520) with iPhones limited range, is silly. Try again when Apple release a true current gen budget smartphone perhaps. I've never understood why we as consumers care about this stuff -- they're businesses for christs sake, and they make billions of dollars of us. Why do we care if one big business does better than their competitors? Why do we defend them? :/
- cheald 13y agoBecause as developers, you don't develop for a specific piece of mobile hardware, you develop for an OS. If Windows Phone is gaining ground in markets you care about, you'd best care about it, regardless of the specific hardware being talked about. We're comparing ecosystems here, not hardware. We can compare "Windows Phone Phones vs iOS phones" if that makes you feel more comfortable.
- girvo 13y agoHey, yeah I agree with you that as developers it matters. Sorry, my post was influenced by another discussion recently about this topic; I was looking at it from a consumer perspective. Now there are some arguments to be made as to why consumers would care as well, but in my experience those arguments might hold true for people like us on HN but not for your average commenter on The Verge (for example).
- cheald 13y agoWell, it matters for consumers too - ecosystem familiarity and lock-in is a big deal. If I buy a bunch of apps in one ecosystem, I have a sunk cost that's going to keep me in that ecosystem. Another ecosystem gaining dominance might mean any number of things as to how I use the device. Consider, for example, if Chile becomes dominated by the Windows Phone. All your good useful local apps - your local versions of Yelps, Zagats, OpenTables, etc - are going to go Windows Phone first. The services that matter most in the community you're in are going to go where the marketshare is - and as an iPhone user, you might be left waiting to catch up.
- Touche 13y ago> Because as developers, you don't develop for a specific piece of mobile hardware, you develop for an OS. Speak for yourself, I develop for the web.
- aeturnum 13y agoWell, do you test on mobile IE? Should you?
- drak0n1c 13y agoConsumers care if one business does better than the other because of two reasons, pride and long-term self-interest. 1) Everyone prefers to be on the winning or "proven-right" side. It's hard to be happy with your otherwise decent Blackberry if your peers increasingly don't use it, know anything about it, or disparage it. 2) There is also a long-term self-interested component that seeks more than simply trying to fit in. It goes like this - the more cool your chosen device/platform/game is the more users it attracts, the more users it attracts the more money is flowing through the system, and ultimately more money means more human resources are spent on patching/re-releasing your favorite product so that it can be improved and stay reliable in the long-term. And if it's a proprietary messaging system or a multiplayer game, having more users in the system is in itself also a boon to the end-user experience.
- Happer 13y ago>With the latest set of big apps ported (like Instagram and Snapchat), it's quite nice. It's not only about the big apps. The 'download app from' in advertisement footers are only referring to the App Store and Google Play. By choosing an iPhone or an Android consumers know for sure that they are able to download and use any app, not just the big ones.
- kumarm 13y ago>> Italy and Finland aside, Windows Phone is primarily growing is poorer nations where the iPhone is prohibitively expensive The markets that Windows outsell iPhone are the markets where iPhone has less than 10% market share and where people need cheaper phones. These are not the markets that are attractive to developers (Revenue/user is much lower than developed countries) and hence Windows will not see developer mindshare in near future. Notice other than Nokia Home base (Finland), Windows does not outsell Android anywhere else.
- kenjackson 13y agoWinPhone mindshare already has grown drastically. There are certainly app gaps, but it closing fast. And before I'd ask companies if they had a win phone app coming they'd say, "what?". Now it is almost always part of the roadmap.
- eclipxe 13y agoCitation needed
- sliverstorm 13y agoIt's clearly intended as anecdotal evidence. Citation request: WONTFIX
- quaffapint 13y agoI have to agree. I was looking into developing a winphone app, figuring there'd be plenty of options, but when you search in the store there's already a decent match for the most part on similar android/iphone apps. I was actually kinda bummed, figuring I'd have easy pickins.
- ethana 13y agoThis is just anecdotal evidence, but increasingly some of my friends and relatives are including Galaxy and Lumia into their conversations about phone upgrade. So maybe it's getting into the general mind-share.
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- adamnemecek 13y ago"Czech Republic Finland" is my favorite country.
- 10feet 13y agoAustralia is interesting, where Android actually fell 5.5%, and both iPhone and Windows gained. Even BB gained in Australia. Every other country has Android gaining. With so much competition in Android space, there are some great offers available.
- apapli 13y agoWhat numbers are you referring to? Curious, I live in AU too and all I am observing is the rise of android against a stagnant MS and dwindling iPhone and BB market shares..
- sien 13y agoIt's in the data in the article.
- CmonDev 13y ago"With so much competition in Android space" - you mean different versions of Samsung Galaxy silvery-roundy-corner things competing with each other?
- sdegutis 13y agoSemi-related: As an Apple fan for the past few years, I have to say, I'm really starting to like where Microsoft is heading. At least in terms of UI and UX.
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- Zigurd 13y agoMost of the reason behind this grab-bag list of places Windows Phone has some market share is that Nokia previously dominated sales in most of these places. Nokia used to be "tier zero" of the handset business, in a class by itself, and with a distribution network that reached where nobody else went. It is a too-easy prediction that these numbers won't hold up as both upper-tier Android OEMs and deep-discount Chinese OEMs invade every remaining corner of the global handset market.
- ZeroGravitas 13y agoThis is the real reason behind these numbers, Nokia's brand and distribution network. Interestingly, Microsoft hasn't bought the Nokia brand for smart phones so once the sale goes through all new phones will no longer be branded Nokia. And after as short period of time Nokia will be able to licence the name to some unpronouncable-to-westerners company from China and Nokia Androids will be on the market to compete with Microsoft Lumias. I'd love to know if Microsoft bought the distribution network. I don't know if it's technically part of Nokia or just a network of partner companies.
- Zigurd 13y agoMicrosoft owns all of Nokia's handset assets now, and has the brand license for a remarkably short time, as you point out. Nokia will continue to use their brand for their infrastructure business as well as maps and other online services. Microsoft does own Nokia's distribution network, and even the factories that make Series 30 handsets, and all the other odd stuff. Another headache for the next Microsoft CEO. My bet is that Nokia will get back in to the handset business, and possibly other consumer electronics, once their non-competition agreement expires. Nokia owns some of Jolla, and most of Jolla's employees are formerly Nokia people. I think Jolla already uses Nokia's maps and media ecosystems.
- j_s 13y agoIs this an opportunity for app devs where the app store isn't as crowded so a quality app can really shine?
- quaffapint 13y agoIt's not 'as crowded', but it's actually grown quite a lot recently with decent app alternatives, so there's not as much available as there used to be, but it's still better in terms of app vs phone quantity.
- cft 13y agoThis is good news for HTML5 webapps developers. Are there any on HN?
- thekingshorses 13y agoIE browser on the wp8 is good, but wp8 as a platform sucks. So many features are not supported or has issues when rendering HTML5 app on wp8 platform. My HN mobile client works fine on WP8/IE, but so many hacks required to work as an HTML5 WP8 app.
- mastersk3 13y agoGuess not! I've tried everything listed in the store and everything's nothing short of pathetic
- CmonDev 13y agoWe have higher-level tools and languages on WP platform. And we can use Xamarin for cross-platform cod reuse. Thankfully there is no strong need for HTML5.
- outside1234 13y agoI was in Vietnam last year and it was like being in this bizarro world where Microsoft dominated mobile.
- snorrish 13y agoI live in Vietnam. Windows phone is certainly popular here, but I believe (relying on my own biased observations) that iPhone is vastly more popular. While iPhones are sold by official vendors, it's far more popular to buy "hand carry" phones that are imported by individuals. Of the ~10 people I know with iPhones, all are hand carried. They are cheaper than the official vendors (and not recognized in the IDC report).
- seanmcdirmid 13y agoGray market imports are probably distorting numbers in the other countries as well.
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- wila 13y agoWhich makes me wonder where all those sold windows phones are. Android and iPhone is what I see around here in Bangkok.
- seanmcdirmid 13y agoNokia has better low end distribution channels. I would assume all those Windows Phones are in the rest of Thailand.
- dnqthao 13y agoWindows Phone in Vietnam are more of a cheaper phone (comparable to Android devices) rather than compete directly with the expensive iPhones. For those customers who can afford the iPhone, they will buy the iPhone instead of a high end Nokia Windows Phone.
- r0h1n 13y agoHow long are Microsoft, and those who write about it, going to continue with the delusion that Windows Phone's competition is Apple and iOS, instead of Google and Android? I had spoken to Horace Dediu of Asymco in December for a story on what options Microsoft and Nokia had before them, and here are some of the relevant parts he told me (the article itself doesn't seem to have been put online at Forbes India, who I used to write for but no longer do): >> Coming to the present, the biggest problem that Microsoft and Nokia will face is that of timing. Specifically, at what stage are we when it comes to global penetration of smartphones? >> Today now that the market is over 1 billion users and going to very rapidly saturate, the challenge for Microsoft is their assumption of wanting to keep on trying hoping to succeed one day. It's hard to believe that after so many tries and so much saturation, they can succeed. Worse, their strategies are symmetric, meaning they compete against an Apple or an Android by claiming their Lumia devices are better. >> If Microsoft and Nokia can pivot and become a low-end competitor then there may be an opportunity still available in emerging markets. But instead they’re pouring tremendous resources into the US and Europe saying Lumia is better. That will fail. The door for Windows Phone is closing not because of Apple and iOS but because of Google and Android. Nokia, the bulk of whose phome portfolio was in the mid-market, was defeated by Android. I could argue, with difficulty, that they can still get into the late stage market but I haven’t seen a message from them indicating that. They simply aren't humble enough to see that market as their core, but still see their platform as superior to all others.
- tsurantino 13y agoThis is likely to be contentious, but doesn't this effectively say that these phones are basically substitutable products? Are there not dimensions beyond price and volume still left to tap into the smartphone market?
- r0h1n 13y ago> Are there not dimensions beyond price and volume still left to tap into the smartphone market? Possibly. But I've personally seen no evidence Windows Phone has that figured.
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- Steko 13y agoTrivia really. Apple and WP both sell smartphones but they don't really compete against each other. Sure Nokia trots out a high end phone every 6 months or what have you but the sales on those models aren't moving the dial on market share. The people who are in Apple's market ($400+ smartphones) either buy an iPhone or a high end Android phone. The people buying 95% of these WP's (510 is $150 unlocked, 520 is $200) are choosing between WP and low end Android phones. The author tries to anticipate this with: "As such, it is possible for cynics to argue Windows Phone is gaining in markets where the iPhone doesn’t compete and making little headway where it does. Except this isn’t true either. Windows Phone Is Fast Becoming A Hit In Europe" But this is also bollocks. There are people everywhere that buy $200 phones, it might be only 20% in the US and 30% in Europe (where many countries don't use subsidies) instead of the 80%+ you might see in Mexico or Thailand but that doesn't mean these people are choosing WP's over iPhones.
- soperj 13y agoSure it does. They're just choosing the WPs based on price.
- Steko 13y agoSeems dodgy. Sure you could say that most people who buy Kia Optimas are choosing them over a Mercedes on price but it honestly doesn't occur to most of those people that a Benz is an option for them because it isn't. And anyone saying Mercedes is losing market share to Kia would be laughed out of the room.
- GigabyteCoin 13y agoDidn't Apple take a more gentrified approach to their sales? I was under the impression that Apple didn't bother to market to any of the markets listed in that article because they aren't THE LARGEST AND RICHEST MARKETS IN THE WORLD. It took them over 3 years to release ANY version of an iphone in finland (one of the listed nations in the article): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_iPhone#European_release http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_iPhone#European_... U.S.A. Release: June 28, 2007 Finland Release: September 30, 2010 It took them over a year to get to Greece, etc... People buy what's available and then stick to what they know, generally. I am not surprised by the findings of this article.
- pavlov 13y agoIt took them over 3 years to release ANY version of an iphone in finland (one of the listed nations in the article): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_iPhone#European_.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_iPhone#European_.... You're reading the Wikipedia article wrong. The iPhone was released in Finland in 2008 when the 3G model came out, and that's stated in the article as well. The primary reason for not releasing the original iPhone in European markets was the lack of 3G. A 2G-only smartphone would have been a hard sell in European markets back in 2007-08 when 3G was already widely deployed and used.
- Geee 13y agoNot true; from the article: On May 27, 2008, TeliaSonera released a press release stating that it would start selling the iPhone in Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland, Estonia, Lithuania, and Latvia during 2008.
- dschiptsov 13y agoSuch a fucking paid nonsense. I an in India right now. It is Samsung and iPhone country. It was Nokia Symbian country before Samsung and Android era, and you would never see a Lumina phone outside a shop window. Low level Nokia Asha phones are selling well, but they are S40.
- CGudapati 13y agoI am also in India and I have to say that while Lumias are not everywhere, they definitely have a decent market share. and iPhone country? I don't think so.
- hawkharris 13y agoI'm working on a project for a large company that recently made Windows Phone 8 its corporate standard. I have to say that I've been impressed with the phone since I started using one for development. The display, camera and interfaces feel smooth and fun to use. It's easy to bash Microsoft and dismiss its products altogether, but it's important to give them a shot, if only to avoid the mistake of limiting ourselves to the Apple / Google technology that is most prevalent.
- melling 13y agoWhy? We've pretty much limited ourselves to Apple and Microsoft on the desktop for almost 2 decades. In fact, it has been pretty much limited to Microsoft. They still have about 90% desktop market share, and almost 100% of the corporate desktop. Microsoft illegally killed off most desktop competition when they forced hardware vendors to pay for DOS on every PC they shipped, regardless of which OS they shipped. Personally, I think we're better off with Google taking the place of Microsoft in the mobile space.
- ladzoppelin 13y ago"Personally, I think we're better off with Google taking the place of Microsoft in the mobile space". Wow it just felt like 2008 for a second. Google's image is so different now. Sad really.
- hawkharris 13y agoIf you were a professional filmmaker, would you only watch movies made by Steven Spielberg and Michael Bay? If you were a chef, would you refuse to eat anything but lobster and filet mignon? Apple and Google are the lobsters and the Steven Spielbergs of the technology world, so to speak: they're highly respected, rich and popular. In a way, there's nothing wrong with that: I use a Macbook, Gmail, etc., because I think they're very well made. My argument isn't that the software industry should jump into bed with Microsoft; I'm saying that trying technologies like the Windows Phone is vital to our professional development as software engineers. If you consider yourself a creator in any given field, you can't keep up without at least dabbling with different and sometimes lesser appreciated products. New ideas often emerge when we deviate from standard tools and practices.
- abe_duarte 13y agoI find it hard to believe that Microsoft is outselling iPhone in Colombia. Even if that was the case iPhone is vastly more popular.
- Pelayo 13y agoHere in Chile, I'm not sure where those phones are. You see iPhone and Android everywhere. My best guess would be people upgrading from a feature phone to a smartphone for the first time. They might buy a really low end Windows phone because of Nokia (they dominated the market for ages) but I have never seen a high end one here in the wild.
- dexen 13y agoRe: Poland, it seems to me Windows Phone's relative success is thanks to the Nokia brand, and also to iPhone being considered overpriced upmarket gadget and/or hipster symbol. Nokia has long enjoyed very good opinion and popularity in Poland -- as the go-to vendor, thanks to decently-priced, user-friendly and rugged phones. The second-hand market is huge, spare parts and accessories abound and experienced repair shops common. Having said that, a few of my friends have gotten Windows Phone and all of them were disappointed, most of them returned them back in exchange for anything Android. Common complain was OS being disappointing for daily use, and app selection was lacking. tl;dr In Poland Windows Phone may outsell iPhones, but it still remains niche -- and you should also subtract frequent returns to get actual user base.
- CmonDev 13y ago"accounts for 93.2 percent of all Windows Phone handset sales highlighting little traction or interest from companies where Microsoft does not have control" - more like companies incapable of building something better then current Nokia products.
- mousefad 13y agoThere was me expecting a map... If you want something doing right... http://i.imgur.com/HqLIJ3q.png http://i.imgur.com/HqLIJ3q.png
- blueskin_ 13y agoFinland can likely be explained exclusively by Nokia. Interesting to see what happens now they are to all intents and purposes a part of MS. Shame really, back in the pre-smartphone days I always had a Nokia as they made the best hardware by far. Nokia phones with CyanogenMod would have been a perfect combination.