7 ms·

How long will it be until we can definitive statements about e-cigarettes? I hate being in a bar or club, or fucking anywhere really, and seeing people smoking

How long will it be until we can definitive statements about e-cigarettes? I hate being in a bar or club, or fucking anywhere really, and seeing people smoking those things indoors. But if asked whether that smoke is actually harming me, I couldn't say.

MichaelGG 13y ago
What exactly do you hate about it? You're unsure of the harm, and quick searches seem to indicate no harm, so is it just the aesthetic?
- jessedhillon 13y ago
  Mostly psychological and irrational. I don't like the feel of the vapor in my face, it definitely feels and smells off-putting. It's the unseemliness, the (my Wikipedia-level understanding) lack of scientific evidence backing up claims of non-harm. And if you do it in a theater it's distracting.
hueving 13y ago
Would it help to know that it isn't smoke? There is no reason at this point to assume there is harm from them (i.e. give them the benefit of the doubt). The vapor is propylene glycol, which is the same thing used to generate 'fog' at concerts, etc. It's too bad they are calling them e-cigarettes because it triggers responses like yours where people apply their notions of regular cigarettes to them. The only thing they actually have in common is nicotine, which is not the harmful part of regular tobacco products.
- stevewillows 13y ago
  On the hobby side of the vape scene, there's a concerted effort to remove the 'cigarette' from the equation. A lot of the original modders started with flashlights (as far as I am told). Years ago I participated in a study to test the effects of smoke machines. I was working at a large arcade that threw huge parties with DJs and such on the weekend. Naturally, we had smoke machines. The researchers found that the PG had no effect on our respiratory system, which was actually what concluded that vaping would be a good alternative to smoking.
syllogism 13y ago
E-cigarette use is almost entirely in place of cigarette use, so it should probably be encouraged. I doubt the vapour is dangerous second hand.
- Synaesthesia 13y ago
  I wouldn't say it's "not dangerous" but definitely a lot less dangerous and offensive than smoke. 100%
  - KC8ZKF 13y ago
    What leads you to believe they might be dangerous?
    - Synaesthesia 13y ago
      Inhaling any particulates or vapours which could deposit on your lungs is potentially dangerous. I was splitting hairs though, because essentially nothing is completely free of danger. I do think it's much much better than smoke.
  - malka 13y ago
    Since it's the same chemical that is used at live event and nightclub to generate 'fog', I sure hope it is not dangerous.
cheald 13y ago
As far as I know, the only emission from must e-cigs is water vapor. I'm not a fan of second hand smoke at all, but a friend if mine uses an e-cigarette and it doesn't bother me or my wife in the slightest. Given my experience with them, I'm of the opinion that people who gripe about them are being judgmental based on the association with smoking actual cigarettes, which is legitimately disgusting.
- humbledrone 13y ago
  Water is not vaporized in e-cigarettes, typically propylene glycol and nicotine are. Thus the emissions are propylene glycol, nicotine, and possibly whatever other impurities were vaporized due to poor manufacturing. Multiple analyses have shown bad things present in various e-cigarette liquids. Perhaps the higher quality liquids are more pure, but who knows? http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/23/health/policy/23fda.html http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/23/health/policy/23fda.html
  - Semaphor 13y ago
    Citing that horrible FDA study is comparable to saying that electronic devices are unsafe because you tested the cheapest available clones you could find in China. Here are just a few analyses that are more current. [1] http://truthaboutecigs.com/science/13.pdf http://truthaboutecigs.com/science/13.pdf [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23701634 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23701634 [3] https://zeecigs.com/PDF/Gamucci-electronic-cigarette-Lab-Study.pdf https://zeecigs.com/PDF/Gamucci-electronic-cigarette-Lab-Stu...
KC8ZKF 13y ago
I think it is pretty certain that car exhaust is harmful. Did you drive today?
- collyw 13y ago
  I always find the anti-smoking crowd incredibly hypocritical when they jump in a car without second thought. There are many cities in the world where it is claimed the pollution is equivalent to x cigarettes per day. I also wonder how many control experiments are done to deduce that "second hand smoke" is causing many of the problems described, as opposed to air pollution from diesel engines.
jgroome 13y ago
That's a shame. The "smoke" from e-cigarettes is just vapour, and no more harmful to the people around the user than steam from a kettle. However, there's a discussion to be had here, and it's possibly more important than the one surrounding cigarettes and second-hand smoke. It's a brand new industry and a brand new habit that people are only starting to adjust to. Ecig manufacturers are, at present, allowed to advertise their product publicly, and sell them as a lifestyle choice. They're even allowed to advertise on TV, something that the tobacco boys haven't been able to do for a very long time (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2517504/VIP-E-cigarette-advert-Im-Celebrity-provokes-parents-outrage.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2517504/VIP-E-cigare...). As an ecig user myself I find myself using it indoors regularly. I'm harming nobody but myself with it. But that's the problem - it's normalised the recreational ingestion of nicotine, and it's only going to become more popular. Smokers, even reformed smokers like myself, aren't going to change their habits unless they're forced to do so. So while many people are put off by indoor ecig use, until the law changes to forbid it, you're just going to have to deal with it.
- bmelton 13y ago
  And the counter to that is that 1) legislation has begun in a number of places, New York, Chicago, etc., to ban the indoor smoking of e-cigarettes because, at least primarily 2) the anti-smoking campaign so effectively illustrated the dangers of second-hand smoke, that people are now conditioned to equate smoke with evil (even smokers, like myself) so, despite the fact that e-cig 'smoke' is actually just vapor, many people are put off of it because of the stigma. Also, at least in New York, the legislative bodies expressed great concern that e-cig users could gasp actually be smoking liquid THC instead of liquid THC, which still wouldn't be harmful, but they're worried about the evils that would certainly infest the hearts of men as a result.
- stevewillows 13y ago
  I vape part-time and sneak in a pull here and there in public -- but it still feels wrong despite the lack of pollution. This said, the vape scene is awesome for us hackers. The e-cigs that look more like cigarettes don't have as much of a scene, and aren't as enjoyable as a variable voltage, low-ohm 'pipe'.

MichaelGG 13y ago

What exactly do you hate about it? You're unsure of the harm, and quick searches seem to indicate no harm, so is it just the aesthetic?

jessedhillon 13y ago
Mostly psychological and irrational. I don't like the feel of the vapor in my face, it definitely feels and smells off-putting. It's the unseemliness, the (my Wikipedia-level understanding) lack of scientific evidence backing up claims of non-harm. And if you do it in a theater it's distracting.

hueving 13y ago

Would it help to know that it isn't smoke? There is no reason at this point to assume there is harm from them (i.e. give them the benefit of the doubt). The vapor is propylene glycol, which is the same thing used to generate 'fog' at concerts, etc. It's too bad they are calling them e-cigarettes because it triggers responses like yours where people apply their notions of regular cigarettes to them. The only thing they actually have in common is nicotine, which is not the harmful part of regular tobacco products.

stevewillows 13y ago
On the hobby side of the vape scene, there's a concerted effort to remove the 'cigarette' from the equation. A lot of the original modders started with flashlights (as far as I am told). Years ago I participated in a study to test the effects of smoke machines. I was working at a large arcade that threw huge parties with DJs and such on the weekend. Naturally, we had smoke machines. The researchers found that the PG had no effect on our respiratory system, which was actually what concluded that vaping would be a good alternative to smoking.

syllogism 13y ago

E-cigarette use is almost entirely in place of cigarette use, so it should probably be encouraged. I doubt the vapour is dangerous second hand.

Synaesthesia 13y ago
I wouldn't say it's "not dangerous" but definitely a lot less dangerous and offensive than smoke. 100%
- KC8ZKF 13y ago
  What leads you to believe they might be dangerous?
  - Synaesthesia 13y ago
    Inhaling any particulates or vapours which could deposit on your lungs is potentially dangerous. I was splitting hairs though, because essentially nothing is completely free of danger. I do think it's much much better than smoke.
- malka 13y ago
  Since it's the same chemical that is used at live event and nightclub to generate 'fog', I sure hope it is not dangerous.

cheald 13y ago

As far as I know, the only emission from must e-cigs is water vapor. I'm not a fan of second hand smoke at all, but a friend if mine uses an e-cigarette and it doesn't bother me or my wife in the slightest. Given my experience with them, I'm of the opinion that people who gripe about them are being judgmental based on the association with smoking actual cigarettes, which is legitimately disgusting.

humbledrone 13y ago
Water is not vaporized in e-cigarettes, typically propylene glycol and nicotine are. Thus the emissions are propylene glycol, nicotine, and possibly whatever other impurities were vaporized due to poor manufacturing. Multiple analyses have shown bad things present in various e-cigarette liquids. Perhaps the higher quality liquids are more pure, but who knows? http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/23/health/policy/23fda.html http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/23/health/policy/23fda.html
- Semaphor 13y ago
  Citing that horrible FDA study is comparable to saying that electronic devices are unsafe because you tested the cheapest available clones you could find in China. Here are just a few analyses that are more current. [1] http://truthaboutecigs.com/science/13.pdf http://truthaboutecigs.com/science/13.pdf [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23701634 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23701634 [3] https://zeecigs.com/PDF/Gamucci-electronic-cigarette-Lab-Study.pdf https://zeecigs.com/PDF/Gamucci-electronic-cigarette-Lab-Stu...

KC8ZKF 13y ago

I think it is pretty certain that car exhaust is harmful. Did you drive today?

collyw 13y ago
I always find the anti-smoking crowd incredibly hypocritical when they jump in a car without second thought. There are many cities in the world where it is claimed the pollution is equivalent to x cigarettes per day. I also wonder how many control experiments are done to deduce that "second hand smoke" is causing many of the problems described, as opposed to air pollution from diesel engines.

jgroome 13y ago

That's a shame. The "smoke" from e-cigarettes is just vapour, and no more harmful to the people around the user than steam from a kettle. However, there's a discussion to be had here, and it's possibly more important than the one surrounding cigarettes and second-hand smoke. It's a brand new industry and a brand new habit that people are only starting to adjust to. Ecig manufacturers are, at present, allowed to advertise their product publicly, and sell them as a lifestyle choice. They're even allowed to advertise on TV, something that the tobacco boys haven't been able to do for a very long time (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2517504/VIP-E-cigarette-advert-Im-Celebrity-provokes-parents-outrage.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2517504/VIP-E-cigare...). As an ecig user myself I find myself using it indoors regularly. I'm harming nobody but myself with it. But that's the problem - it's normalised the recreational ingestion of nicotine, and it's only going to become more popular. Smokers, even reformed smokers like myself, aren't going to change their habits unless they're forced to do so. So while many people are put off by indoor ecig use, until the law changes to forbid it, you're just going to have to deal with it.

bmelton 13y ago
And the counter to that is that 1) legislation has begun in a number of places, New York, Chicago, etc., to ban the indoor smoking of e-cigarettes because, at least primarily 2) the anti-smoking campaign so effectively illustrated the dangers of second-hand smoke, that people are now conditioned to equate smoke with evil (even smokers, like myself) so, despite the fact that e-cig 'smoke' is actually just vapor, many people are put off of it because of the stigma. Also, at least in New York, the legislative bodies expressed great concern that e-cig users could gasp actually be smoking liquid THC instead of liquid THC, which still wouldn't be harmful, but they're worried about the evils that would certainly infest the hearts of men as a result.
stevewillows 13y ago
I vape part-time and sneak in a pull here and there in public -- but it still feels wrong despite the lack of pollution. This said, the vape scene is awesome for us hackers. The e-cigs that look more like cigarettes don't have as much of a scene, and aren't as enjoyable as a variable voltage, low-ohm 'pipe'.