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Nissan Sells 100,000 LEAFs, Captures 48% Of Worldwide Electric Vehicle Market
- jwatte 13y agoI've owned a leaf for 30 months now, driven almost 30,000 miles, and still like it. Also, it seems every second car in the HOV lane in the SF bay area it's a Leaf...
- coin 13y agoAre electric vehicles allowed in the High Occupancy Vehicle lane without being high occupancy (single occupant)?
- cpeterso 13y agoYes. California previously allowed hybrid cars in single-occupant HOV lanes, too.
- thrownaway2424 13y agoYes, a fact which will make any bus rider want to reach for his bazooka. Man, there is nothing more irritating than being stuck in the HOV lane in a bus in a traffic jam consisting entirely of teslas and leafs.
- coin 13y agoThey should not call it the "HOV lane" since they allow non high occupancy vehicles (e.g. hybrid car, electric car, motorcycles). My understanding was the HOV lane's purpose is to encourage car pooling (i.e. high occupancy). Allowing single occupant motorcycles and electric cars sort of defeats this purpose.
- HCIdivision17 13y agoAs always, the trick is to remember the purpose of the HOV lane: keep traffic moving. That's part of the reason motorcycles are allowed. It's considered safer to let a motorcycle stay in motion than be in stop and go traffic [1]. And having been stuck in the Dallas MixMaster since the I-35E N HOV was shut down, I can say holding a motorcycle half clutched for half an hour is dang near painful. This is also the reason motorcycles are allowed to ride the line in traffic jams (also air-cooled engines need to stay in motion in summer). Plus, if you don't have a passenger seat, the bike's at full occupancy, which ought to be at least near high occupancy! [1] http://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freewaymgmt/faq.htm#faq15 http://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freewaymgmt/faq.htm#faq15 Edit: managed to get the highway wrong. Whoops.
- crystaln 13y agoYou seem to be assuming that HOV lanes are the result of some rational regulatory process. In fact, they have been shown in every study to disrupt traffic with little effect on carpooling.
- jdale27 13y agoThe naming is historical baggage. In practice, "HOV lanes" today serve two (intended) purposes: (1) reduce gridlock; (2) reduce pollution. As originally conceived, (2) could only be achieved by actual high occupancy vehicles being used to reduce the number of vehicles on the road. Now it can also be achieved by low- or zero-emission vehicles, hence the exception.
- chiph 13y agoI prefer the name "High Subsidy Lane" for them.
- thrownaway2424 13y agoBoom. Comment of the month. ^^^
- mikestew 13y agoThey are: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1086720_california-extends-electric-car-hov-lane-access-to-2019 http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1086720_california-exten... (As a side note, kind of defeats the purpose of the HOV lane to me, but maybe the "if it sells more electric cars..." excuse offsets it enough.)
- glimcat 13y agoHOV lanes are nominally intended to encourage more ecological use of transit resources, with congestion relief as a coincident effect (fewer cars on the road -> less pollution, lower energy usage, reduced rate of needing new transit infrastructure). Since electric cars serve many / most of the same purposes, it makes sense to append them to a reward system which has already proven effective at driving adoption and retention of preferred behaviors.
- _delirium 13y agoIf it's spare HOV capacity, then I agree. But if adding the electric cars to HOV lanes increases the congestion in HOV lanes, it might degrade their effectiveness in incentivizing the behaviors they currently incentivize. For example, the attractiveness of either carpooling or riding the bus declines if HOV lanes get slower. Carpooling in particular needs enough of a delta in the regular v. HOV trip times to make up for having to pick up the other carpool members (unless you live in the same place). One solution is to allow a capped number in, to incentivize purchase but only up to a threshold that doesn't overly degrade HOV trip times. I believe that's what California did for hybrids, allowing HOV usage for the first N purchased.
- tdiggity 13y agoNorCal still has a couple things that they can do to alleviate congestion in carpool lanes. They can extend the hours to the carpool lane, or even make it HoV for 24 hours a day (SoCal does this). My guess is that in a couple years we will see 24 hour carpool lanes in NorCal.
- cdjk 13y agoYes, with the right sticker: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/decal.htm http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/decal.htm
- notastartup 13y agoDo you ever worry about running out of juice while driving? This is the only thing that prevents me, it's the situation where you don't have any juice but need it somehow. It would be great if you could put gasoline in it to generate electricity. It wouldn't even be used frequently (otherwise no point in saving money by using electricity only), just for emergencies.
- robmcm 13y agoThe BMW has a range extender which is a gas engine that powers the battery. It gives you an extra bit of range, but I think you need it running over a long time, IE I don't think it can recharge as fast as you can drain the battery.
- hatbert 13y agoDo you have the same range anxiety with a gas car? Why not?
- joshuapants 13y agoDid you even think this through before you posted or are you being spergy and pedantic on purpose? If I run low on gas I can pull into any service station and get my entire 336 mile range back in 2 minutes. I would need hours to charge an electric car and the only place I could do that is at my house. If I wanted to go down the shore for a day (60 miles each way) the Leaf would get me there, but then I'd only have 15 miles of range left and no place to charge, effectively stranding me.
- dangrossman 13y agoThat's 4 times the number of Model S on the road, if anyone was curious.
- danhak 13y ago...worth noting that Nissan had a 2 year lead on deliveries.
- Cookingboy 13y agoGasp, a car that's been on the market for almost twice as long and costs less than half as much sold more, how crazy is that? Still, I actually test drove a Leaf a while back, nifty car, and I applaud Nissan for doing what they are doing. Amongst the snooze fest that is the Japanese auto industry these days, Nissan definitely has some of the most interesting line ups, from affordable, super car performance (GT-R) to pure electric city commuter (Leaf).
- TylerE 13y agoThe GT-R isn't really an affordable supercar any more, but now even the base model is well over $100k with tax.
- Shivetya 13y agoThat they have sold so many is a good thing. Unlike Tesla, they don't have the advantage of selling into a market where people have a large amount of disposable income. I would say that when cars like the Leaf, the sub 100 mile range club, get under twenty thousand after the government rebate then sales should really take off. I have no problem subsidizing the purchase of a reasonably priced electric like the Leaf or even as a stretch the i3 but once you pass into luxury pricing those people don't need the payout from the public
- maxerickson 13y agoThey are selling to people with disposable income though, pretty much by definition. People buying the Leaf are buying a new car that only does one thing better than new vehicles $15,000-20,000 cheaper.
- obblekk 13y agoIt's interesting that this model has been unsuccessful in the US, but fits the demand profile perfectly in other wealthy countries. The American market, as always, is difficult to move.
- MBCook 13y agoDon't forget the Volt was practically being given away, which certainly skews the market some.
- cowmixtoo 13y ago@40K up until this fall (and 35K now), I would hardly say that is "being given away" prices.
- sliverstorm 13y agoIt's always interesting seeing these sorts of discussions. On HN, every now and then you uncover a conversation about what's financially reasonable, between the guy making $450k/year and the guy making $45k/year.
- toomuchtodo 13y agoThey had lease specials for as low as $250/month. If you can run all-electric the majority of the time, your TCO is damn near free.
- tsotha 13y agoNot many people spend $250/month in gas.
- yardie 13y agoMany people don't want to spend $250/mo on gas. Whether they do or not is separate. I had a Nissan Pathfinder once and it was okay when gas was $2-2.50/gal (16 gallon tank, $40/wk, $150/month). Once it got to $4.00/gal damn right I found alternatives to driving that Pathfinder. The 20 minute walk to the store in the hot, Florida sun didn't seem so bad anymore. I have many friends who bought SUVs (for the "utility") and commuted way out from the exurbs. They had no choice but to eat the cost of $100 fillups while looking for cheaper alternatives.
- programminggeek 13y agoWow, I figured there were more than 200,000 RC Cars sold each year. rimshot
- programminggeek 13y agoMan, jokes are not well received on HN.
- gjm11 13y agoThe HN audience is really tough -- it requires that jokes actually be funny before reckoning them a net addition to the conversation. Preferably funny and insightful at once, but I've seen things substantially upvoted just for being very witty. This is a Good Thing because it means HN discussions are less likely to get swamped under an avalanche of cheap jokes. (Cheap jokes are much easier than insight.)
- nostromo 13y agoCheck out how fast this market it going. (US battery electric vehicle sales per year: http://www.electricdrive.org/index.php?ht=d/sp/i/20952/pid/20952 http://www.electricdrive.org/index.php?ht=d/sp/i/20952/pid/2...) 2010: 19 (lol, is that right?) 2011: 10,064 2012: 52,835 2013: 96,702
- maxerickson 13y agoThe 2011 number doesn't include plug in hybrids, the later years do (with the plug in hybrids being the majority of 2012 sales and around half of 2013).
- mikestew 13y ago> 2010: 19 (lol, is that right?) Yes, because despite all of our pre-ordered Leafs supposed to be showing up in December of '10, they were late (granted, they had a tsunami, but that wasn't the only reason). And as far as I know, Nissan was the only one shipping battery cars.
- ryanhuff 13y agoConsidering that Telsa brought in $116M in revenue in 2010, I find the 2010 count suspect. http://www.teslamotors.com/about/press/releases/tesla-motors-reports-fourth-quarter-and-full-year-2010-results http://www.teslamotors.com/about/press/releases/tesla-motors...
- lmm 13y agoTesla accepted a lot of pre-orders long before they had shippable cars.
- ryanhuff 13y agoTesla began delivering their roadster to customers in 2008.
- rgbrenner 13y agoMost of that revenue is from selling EVs to Daimler and others. But it does look like you are right about the 2010 number being off.. Tesla celebrates 1000th roadster: Jan 12, 2010 http://www.teslamotors.com/about/press/releases/tesla-celebrates-1000th-roadster http://www.teslamotors.com/about/press/releases/tesla-celebr... Full Year 2010 Results "Tesla delivered its 1,500th Roadster during the [4th] quarter." http://www.teslamotors.com/about/press/releases/tesla-motors-reports-fourth-quarter-and-full-year-2010-results http://www.teslamotors.com/about/press/releases/tesla-motors...
- lingben 13y agoTesla better hurry and bring their lower range car to market
- gilgoomesh 13y agoThey're still flat out working to expand their factory to get the Model S built. According to interviews I've seen, most of the next 2 years will be slowly growing the factory size. They'd be selling 2-3 times more if they could actually build them.
- prostoalex 13y agoOr wait a few more years when Leaf batteries reach their lifetime expiration, and those buyers are back on the market.
- sliverstorm 13y agoThe car has been on the market, what, 3-4 years? Just how fast do you think the batteries will expire?
- prostoalex 13y agoI think the official estimate is 8 years, give or take 3 depending on average temperatures.
- dangrossman 13y ago> The battery pack is expected to retain 70% to 80% of its capacity after 10 years http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Leaf#Battery http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Leaf#Battery 8 years happens to be the length of the warranty on 2011/2012 Leaf batteries. Either way, combined with the optional $100/mo protection plan that gives you a new battery if yours ever loses 30% capacity, I doubt any Leaf buyers will be on the market before 2021 for any reason other than wanting a new car.
- hatbert 13y ago
- pinaceae 13y agoand yet it is completely tasteless designwise. what an ugly, ugly car. tesla is doing it right, the fiat500e is beautiful - why is it so hard to understand that design matters? the new BMW i3 is not exactly beautiful as well.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- mikestew 13y ago> why is it so hard to understand that design matters? Maybe Nissan did understand that, which is how we ended up with the Leaf. You spend $32K on a car that's saving polar bears, you want the world to know it. How am I supposed to feel smug if I'm driving something that looks like a Nissan Versa? Contrast that to the Tesla Model S, which IMO is kind of bland (though I'd still buy one if we didn't have the Leaf). A buddy of mine recently said he hadn't seen a Tesla. In Redmond, WA? I guarantee that he saw at least one or two on his way to work at Microsoft that morning. But if one isn't in to cars much, a Model S isn't really going to stand out.
- _delirium 13y agoI've seen that hypothesis floated for hybrid-electric cars also, in particular to explain why more conventional-looking cars like the Honda Civic Hybrid failed to make a meaningful dent into the Toyota Prius's marketshare.
- Danieru 13y agoThe Teslas are rarer at Microsoft than I expected. Over the summer I made a point of looking for them. The Leafs were easy to spot and numerous. Meanwhile I remember one or maybe two Teslas. In fact I saw more Ferraris than Tesla Model S. Without a doubt the Leaf is more noticeable and more popular.
- yen223 13y agoIf you want a car that smug people can feel smug about, at least have the courtesy to make it look desirable. I'm looking at you too, Prius.
- dcc1 13y agoGreat > more electrics > less demand for petrol > lower petrol prices for us non-hipsters
- Cthulhu_ 13y agoHaha, you wish; more likely prices will go up because petrol stations complain about not selling as much gas anymore, so they have to raise the prices to compensate. There is no such thing as decreasing gas prices.
- bigd 13y agoSo true. then (at least in our country) there's the base federal taxation: we still are paying the following "una-tantum": Abissinia war 1935 Suez crysis 1956 Vajont disaster 1963 Firenze floods 1966 Belice Earthquake 1968 Friuli Earthquake 1976 Irpinia Earthquake 1980 Libanon peace mission 1983 Bosnia peace mission 1996 ... +22% VAT
- brc 13y agoSounds good...but they will OT reach their original target of 1.5m EVs per year. It was probably a good statement of intent at the time though.
- oblio 13y agoThis is so nice, until you figure out that the electric car has been around since 1880: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car. Now it's trying to claw its way to 0.1% of worldwide car sale - and let's not try to figure out which percentage of total cars used this represents (probably 0.00001%). I know that after a tipping point adoption just starts snowballing, but that point still looks 10-12 years away (a market share of electric car sales at 10% or better).