6 ms·

The real problem is people studying bullshit that nobody really needs. Young people got sold the idea that they can be anything they want to be, they they are

by ye 13y ago

The real problem is people studying bullshit that nobody really needs. Young people got sold the idea that they can be anything they want to be, they they are all special snowflakes. The reality is quite a bit more brutal. What we really need is mandatory career counseling, once a year, for every student. The counselors must be familiar with the state of the market, the market trends, technology trends, number of future graduate trends, etc.

adharmad 13y ago
It is not just young gullible kids but even experienced folks. Note the oncoming glut in the Phd market. If people who work towards doctorates in highly specialized fields cannot forsee the supply-demand mechanics then younger people surely can be excused for making similar mistakes!
angersock 13y ago
Yes, we really need to make sure that there is a square hole for every peg to get hammered in to! Or, better, we could try to figure out how to keep costs from spiraling so high that they prevent a "useless" degree-bearer from ever leaving their dead-end job.
Jormundir 13y ago
There's also the problem across the aisle of employers looking for bullshit skills and experience that are almost completely irrelevant to the jobs they're offering. Graduating from college today and trying to move into the workforce feels like a lockout, like there's some sort of employer union to purposefully bar recent grads out of employment. It really has nothing to do with studying "bullshit degrees", as so many of the graduates with "bullshit degrees" are incredibly competent and hard working, and would make better employees than the arbitrary person with "5 years experience", who may have 5 years experience being a terrible employee. Counseling students of the trends of the market is stupid. You would get a ton of students with whatever degree was popular 2 years ago. You can't just switch your degree on the whims of the job market, and why would we want our college educated force to do so? There would be a stupid and obvious consequence: hordes of graduates all with the same single degree all still complaining about how college doesn't lead to a job. Really the problem is that there just aren't enough jobs for college grads, and the jobs that are available, employers naively put bars of experience, completely ignoring a mass of very competent workers. One thing I might be in support of is more of a compromise: cut out more of the atrociously poor general education in exchange for a policy of something like 1 career degree (Business, Science, Engineering), 1 arts degree (Everyone must double major). But this would likely have the drawback of students having to grind through a subject they're not interested in and are never going to apply in practice. P.S. (I'm a few years out of college and have been employed the entire time, so this is not my personal anger at the job market, but more an observation of systemically poor hiring practices).
- thatthatis 13y ago
  The presence of bullshit skill requirements is an indication of supply:demand mismatch. Employers only do that when there are too many qualified candidates and they need fast ways to reduce the potential pool. You can re-state your point that "there aren't enough jobs for college grads" as "there are fewer jobs that require a college degree than people with college degrees" Society needs: lawyers, janitors, computer programmers, bus drivers, etc. There are other imbalances in the labor-training market: we're currently over-producing lawyers, and under producing programmers.
- ye 13y ago
  > as so many of the graduates with "bullshit degrees" are incredibly competent A history graduate is competent in what exactly? They aren't even competent at teaching history, which generally requires Masters or PhD. > Counseling students of the trends of the market is stupid I never said the students should counseled on the trends. But the counselors must be aware of them.
  - mgkimsal 13y ago
    "A history graduate is competent in what exactly?" Studying/researching problems. Writing persuasive documents based on evidence. Working collaboratively in teams doing research. Or, at least, that's what I'd expect. I'd expect that almost anyone graduating with a 4 year degree in anything. Sadly, I know it's not the case. > 20 years ago, I was taking a college course on 'intro to china'. It was definitely a 'blow off' class - a 2 credit class you had to take to fulfill some general ed requirement. The class was 2 months, 1 (or maybe 2?) nights per week, and we had to write 4 'papers'. The 'papers' needed to be 1-2 pages on any topic of our choice relating to China - historical, modern, political, whatever. The instructor was a librarian by trade, and loved China, and taught the class. First papers go back to the students, and 3-5 students in the back - 'non traditionals' by the look of it (all over 30 IIRC) started complaining - loudly - that they'd been marked down because of spelling and grammar mistakes. The instructor replied that this was a college class and they should be able to write basic English competently enough to avoid basic spelling and grammar mistakes - we should all know how to use semicolons, commas, periods, capitalization rules, possessive forms, etc. One of the students shouted back "this isn't an English class - this is unfair bullshit that I'm being marked down like this". Sadly, a group of people all chimed in agreeing. The teacher was visibly shaken. Of course, not arguing this is the state of every single college class out there, and it wasn't even the norm in my experience. I was just shocked at the time that it happened at all, but now it doesn't shock me any more. Just saddens me that people think like this. Those sorts of people shouldn't be going to college in the first place, but were sold the line "get a college degree and your life will be great". It's not true.
Pxtl 13y ago
And people who studied bullshit that nobody really needs used to get jobs. Talk to a 50-year-old businessman about his degree and you'll find out he studied lit or philosophy.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

by ye 13y ago

adharmad 13y ago

It is not just young gullible kids but even experienced folks. Note the oncoming glut in the Phd market. If people who work towards doctorates in highly specialized fields cannot forsee the supply-demand mechanics then younger people surely can be excused for making similar mistakes!

angersock 13y ago

Yes, we really need to make sure that there is a square hole for every peg to get hammered in to! Or, better, we could try to figure out how to keep costs from spiraling so high that they prevent a "useless" degree-bearer from ever leaving their dead-end job.

Jormundir 13y ago

There's also the problem across the aisle of employers looking for bullshit skills and experience that are almost completely irrelevant to the jobs they're offering. Graduating from college today and trying to move into the workforce feels like a lockout, like there's some sort of employer union to purposefully bar recent grads out of employment. It really has nothing to do with studying "bullshit degrees", as so many of the graduates with "bullshit degrees" are incredibly competent and hard working, and would make better employees than the arbitrary person with "5 years experience", who may have 5 years experience being a terrible employee. Counseling students of the trends of the market is stupid. You would get a ton of students with whatever degree was popular 2 years ago. You can't just switch your degree on the whims of the job market, and why would we want our college educated force to do so? There would be a stupid and obvious consequence: hordes of graduates all with the same single degree all still complaining about how college doesn't lead to a job. Really the problem is that there just aren't enough jobs for college grads, and the jobs that are available, employers naively put bars of experience, completely ignoring a mass of very competent workers. One thing I might be in support of is more of a compromise: cut out more of the atrociously poor general education in exchange for a policy of something like 1 career degree (Business, Science, Engineering), 1 arts degree (Everyone must double major). But this would likely have the drawback of students having to grind through a subject they're not interested in and are never going to apply in practice. P.S. (I'm a few years out of college and have been employed the entire time, so this is not my personal anger at the job market, but more an observation of systemically poor hiring practices).

thatthatis 13y ago
The presence of bullshit skill requirements is an indication of supply:demand mismatch. Employers only do that when there are too many qualified candidates and they need fast ways to reduce the potential pool. You can re-state your point that "there aren't enough jobs for college grads" as "there are fewer jobs that require a college degree than people with college degrees" Society needs: lawyers, janitors, computer programmers, bus drivers, etc. There are other imbalances in the labor-training market: we're currently over-producing lawyers, and under producing programmers.
ye 13y ago
> as so many of the graduates with "bullshit degrees" are incredibly competent A history graduate is competent in what exactly? They aren't even competent at teaching history, which generally requires Masters or PhD. > Counseling students of the trends of the market is stupid I never said the students should counseled on the trends. But the counselors must be aware of them.
- mgkimsal 13y ago
  "A history graduate is competent in what exactly?" Studying/researching problems. Writing persuasive documents based on evidence. Working collaboratively in teams doing research. Or, at least, that's what I'd expect. I'd expect that almost anyone graduating with a 4 year degree in anything. Sadly, I know it's not the case. > 20 years ago, I was taking a college course on 'intro to china'. It was definitely a 'blow off' class - a 2 credit class you had to take to fulfill some general ed requirement. The class was 2 months, 1 (or maybe 2?) nights per week, and we had to write 4 'papers'. The 'papers' needed to be 1-2 pages on any topic of our choice relating to China - historical, modern, political, whatever. The instructor was a librarian by trade, and loved China, and taught the class. First papers go back to the students, and 3-5 students in the back - 'non traditionals' by the look of it (all over 30 IIRC) started complaining - loudly - that they'd been marked down because of spelling and grammar mistakes. The instructor replied that this was a college class and they should be able to write basic English competently enough to avoid basic spelling and grammar mistakes - we should all know how to use semicolons, commas, periods, capitalization rules, possessive forms, etc. One of the students shouted back "this isn't an English class - this is unfair bullshit that I'm being marked down like this". Sadly, a group of people all chimed in agreeing. The teacher was visibly shaken. Of course, not arguing this is the state of every single college class out there, and it wasn't even the norm in my experience. I was just shocked at the time that it happened at all, but now it doesn't shock me any more. Just saddens me that people think like this. Those sorts of people shouldn't be going to college in the first place, but were sold the line "get a college degree and your life will be great". It's not true.

Pxtl 13y ago

And people who studied bullshit that nobody really needs used to get jobs. Talk to a 50-year-old businessman about his degree and you'll find out he studied lit or philosophy.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]