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Perhaps the problem is that people who are destined for a dead-end job are now going to college: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Educational_Attainment_in_th

Perhaps the problem is that people who are destined for a dead-end job are now going to college: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Educational_Attainment_in_the_United_States_2009.png http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Educational_Attainment_in_... In 1990 ~20% of the US had bachelors degrees. In 2009 ~25% did. In the same period, the % of college grads in low wage jobs also went up by about 5% (according to the OP). Caveats: 1) That second 5% is from the population of grads not the total population, so that second 5% is a lower number. 2) The 5% total attainment measures the full pool, not the delta in the pool as would be appropriate to use in comparison to the recent college grads numbers in the article. A lot of this "college grads now worse off" seems like partial views of the statistics that ignore the meteoric rise in enrollment over the same period. One stat I haven't yet seen, that would make a great paper for anyone still in college, is: What percent of these numbers can be explained by higher GI bill usage following the Iraq and Afghanistan wars?

ye 13y ago
The real problem is people studying bullshit that nobody really needs. Young people got sold the idea that they can be anything they want to be, they they are all special snowflakes. The reality is quite a bit more brutal. What we really need is mandatory career counseling, once a year, for every student. The counselors must be familiar with the state of the market, the market trends, technology trends, number of future graduate trends, etc.
- adharmad 13y ago
  It is not just young gullible kids but even experienced folks. Note the oncoming glut in the Phd market. If people who work towards doctorates in highly specialized fields cannot forsee the supply-demand mechanics then younger people surely can be excused for making similar mistakes!
- angersock 13y ago
  Yes, we really need to make sure that there is a square hole for every peg to get hammered in to! Or, better, we could try to figure out how to keep costs from spiraling so high that they prevent a "useless" degree-bearer from ever leaving their dead-end job.
- Jormundir 13y ago
  There's also the problem across the aisle of employers looking for bullshit skills and experience that are almost completely irrelevant to the jobs they're offering. Graduating from college today and trying to move into the workforce feels like a lockout, like there's some sort of employer union to purposefully bar recent grads out of employment. It really has nothing to do with studying "bullshit degrees", as so many of the graduates with "bullshit degrees" are incredibly competent and hard working, and would make better employees than the arbitrary person with "5 years experience", who may have 5 years experience being a terrible employee. Counseling students of the trends of the market is stupid. You would get a ton of students with whatever degree was popular 2 years ago. You can't just switch your degree on the whims of the job market, and why would we want our college educated force to do so? There would be a stupid and obvious consequence: hordes of graduates all with the same single degree all still complaining about how college doesn't lead to a job. Really the problem is that there just aren't enough jobs for college grads, and the jobs that are available, employers naively put bars of experience, completely ignoring a mass of very competent workers. One thing I might be in support of is more of a compromise: cut out more of the atrociously poor general education in exchange for a policy of something like 1 career degree (Business, Science, Engineering), 1 arts degree (Everyone must double major). But this would likely have the drawback of students having to grind through a subject they're not interested in and are never going to apply in practice. P.S. (I'm a few years out of college and have been employed the entire time, so this is not my personal anger at the job market, but more an observation of systemically poor hiring practices).
  - thatthatis 13y ago
    The presence of bullshit skill requirements is an indication of supply:demand mismatch. Employers only do that when there are too many qualified candidates and they need fast ways to reduce the potential pool. You can re-state your point that "there aren't enough jobs for college grads" as "there are fewer jobs that require a college degree than people with college degrees" Society needs: lawyers, janitors, computer programmers, bus drivers, etc. There are other imbalances in the labor-training market: we're currently over-producing lawyers, and under producing programmers.
  - ye 13y ago
- Pxtl 13y ago
  And people who studied bullshit that nobody really needs used to get jobs. Talk to a 50-year-old businessman about his degree and you'll find out he studied lit or philosophy.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
ffrryuu 13y ago
Blaming the victim, favorite American pastime.
- ye 13y ago
  In this case the victim is often responsible for making poor career choices. The whole "I graduated, I'm entitled to a job" sentiment must go away, or we will end up with an army of hungry homeless history, women-study, art, philosophy graduates.
  - ffrryuu 13y ago
    So what do you recommend they do? We can't all be programmers.
    - ye 13y ago
      There are only a few options I see for them 1) Give up and work for a shitty job, until it gets automated, then go homeless and hope the government keeps them alive 2) Learn new marketable skills and get a job. You're right, we can't all be programmers, but we can be nurses, car mechanics, accountants, pilots, welders, plumbers, farmers, etc. 3) Start a small business. Many successful small businesses are literally as stupid as "buy wholesale, sell retail". Many have very low barriers to entry, like making ice cream.
      - dinkumthinkum 13y ago
        Your number 2 is silly and it makes it hard for me to take you seriously. If those are the jobs you think students should go towards, which exactly are the dead end jobs you speak of?
        ye 13y ago
        All the jobs I listed, apart from nursing, are well paid. Nursing is more for people who like to help/save other people, and it's a noble profession in my mind.

ye 13y ago

The real problem is people studying bullshit that nobody really needs. Young people got sold the idea that they can be anything they want to be, they they are all special snowflakes. The reality is quite a bit more brutal. What we really need is mandatory career counseling, once a year, for every student. The counselors must be familiar with the state of the market, the market trends, technology trends, number of future graduate trends, etc.

adharmad 13y ago
It is not just young gullible kids but even experienced folks. Note the oncoming glut in the Phd market. If people who work towards doctorates in highly specialized fields cannot forsee the supply-demand mechanics then younger people surely can be excused for making similar mistakes!
angersock 13y ago
Yes, we really need to make sure that there is a square hole for every peg to get hammered in to! Or, better, we could try to figure out how to keep costs from spiraling so high that they prevent a "useless" degree-bearer from ever leaving their dead-end job.
Jormundir 13y ago
There's also the problem across the aisle of employers looking for bullshit skills and experience that are almost completely irrelevant to the jobs they're offering. Graduating from college today and trying to move into the workforce feels like a lockout, like there's some sort of employer union to purposefully bar recent grads out of employment. It really has nothing to do with studying "bullshit degrees", as so many of the graduates with "bullshit degrees" are incredibly competent and hard working, and would make better employees than the arbitrary person with "5 years experience", who may have 5 years experience being a terrible employee. Counseling students of the trends of the market is stupid. You would get a ton of students with whatever degree was popular 2 years ago. You can't just switch your degree on the whims of the job market, and why would we want our college educated force to do so? There would be a stupid and obvious consequence: hordes of graduates all with the same single degree all still complaining about how college doesn't lead to a job. Really the problem is that there just aren't enough jobs for college grads, and the jobs that are available, employers naively put bars of experience, completely ignoring a mass of very competent workers. One thing I might be in support of is more of a compromise: cut out more of the atrociously poor general education in exchange for a policy of something like 1 career degree (Business, Science, Engineering), 1 arts degree (Everyone must double major). But this would likely have the drawback of students having to grind through a subject they're not interested in and are never going to apply in practice. P.S. (I'm a few years out of college and have been employed the entire time, so this is not my personal anger at the job market, but more an observation of systemically poor hiring practices).
- thatthatis 13y ago
  The presence of bullshit skill requirements is an indication of supply:demand mismatch. Employers only do that when there are too many qualified candidates and they need fast ways to reduce the potential pool. You can re-state your point that "there aren't enough jobs for college grads" as "there are fewer jobs that require a college degree than people with college degrees" Society needs: lawyers, janitors, computer programmers, bus drivers, etc. There are other imbalances in the labor-training market: we're currently over-producing lawyers, and under producing programmers.
- ye 13y ago
Pxtl 13y ago
And people who studied bullshit that nobody really needs used to get jobs. Talk to a 50-year-old businessman about his degree and you'll find out he studied lit or philosophy.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

ffrryuu 13y ago

Blaming the victim, favorite American pastime.

ye 13y ago
In this case the victim is often responsible for making poor career choices. The whole "I graduated, I'm entitled to a job" sentiment must go away, or we will end up with an army of hungry homeless history, women-study, art, philosophy graduates.
- ffrryuu 13y ago
  So what do you recommend they do? We can't all be programmers.
  - ye 13y ago
    There are only a few options I see for them 1) Give up and work for a shitty job, until it gets automated, then go homeless and hope the government keeps them alive 2) Learn new marketable skills and get a job. You're right, we can't all be programmers, but we can be nurses, car mechanics, accountants, pilots, welders, plumbers, farmers, etc. 3) Start a small business. Many successful small businesses are literally as stupid as "buy wholesale, sell retail". Many have very low barriers to entry, like making ice cream.
    - dinkumthinkum 13y ago
      Your number 2 is silly and it makes it hard for me to take you seriously. If those are the jobs you think students should go towards, which exactly are the dead end jobs you speak of?
      - ye 13y ago
        All the jobs I listed, apart from nursing, are well paid. Nursing is more for people who like to help/save other people, and it's a noble profession in my mind.