4 ms·

I think that an important step is to pre-empt the counter-offer. When you even start to consider another opportunity, think about why you actually want to move

I think that an important step is to pre-empt the counter-offer. When you even start to consider another opportunity, think about why you actually want to move to the new opportunity. Is it that you need more money? Is it that you want to work on a different kind of project? Is it that you need more stimulation? Then go to your employer, and without bringing up the other opportunity, see if they are willing to make the change that you want. Don't be angry that they haven't already done it for you, until this point you didn't even necessarily know you wanted it, you can't expect them to. If they accept, then you are in an environment where you're happy, and your employer is probably happy that you are motivated and taking steps to make things happen. If they reject your offer, then pursue the better opportunity. In that case, if they do give you a counter-offer, it's either going to be less than you need, which makes it easy enough to say no to. Or they will be offering you the same thing you've already asked for and declined to provide, which means they are doing it out of desperation and you can expect they will to an extent resent it if they feel it's something they can't afford, or they will have been actively trying to take advantage of you by denying you fair treatment when you asked for it directly. I think first decide what it is you need, then give your employer the opportunity to provide what it is you need of their own accord, then accept an offer with another employer who can provide what it is you need. Then you don't have to worry about the counter-offer. You've already gone through it once on your terms. If you don't make your employer aware that you want a change prior to your resignation, and they would have been willing to offer it to you all along if they knew, you're both in an awkward position. If the counter offer is exactly what you want and you take it, there will be some soreness and a passive-aggressive attitude that will persist. If you ask for what you want and get it prior to saying "Or else I quit" it's much smoother sailing for everyone.

sockgrant 13y ago
Absolutely the right approach. You owe it to yourself and to your employer to be honest with them. If you think you deserve more money, a new manager, a better project, etc. then ask. You shouldn't say you'll leave if you don't get it. You just lay out your reasons and make a simple request. Also, it's important to start these conversations early. If you want more money and are ready to quit within 1 month if you don't get it, you are asking too late. If you can't stand working for your manager for 1 more day and you haven't told anyone, you're too late. When you start having these wants, it's important to bring them up. "I'd like to be on track to be promoted within 1 year, how can I do this?" Stay on top of this subject with your manager. If you have problems with your manager, amicably let him know how you two could work better together. Make a few efforts at it. If it doesn't work then you let a higher-up(s) know and leave it to them. If you're proactive early about what you want from your job then you'll either get what you want or save time finding out that you won't get it. It will also lead to a very easy decision to stay/leave a job.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- jonnathanson 13y ago
  This is good, solid advice. In general, taking your manager or company by surprise -- for good or bad -- is never a great strategy. If you're angling for a raise or a promotion, make your intentions known well in advance. Don't assume your boss can read your mind. Have a plan, get input from your manager, follow up on it, and show progress. Don't expect something to happen overnight, even if your boss wants to make it happen. He or she might have several layers of red tape to work through, or might be unable to give spot promotions and raises outside of a given cycle. (This is especially true at large companies, whose managers have less discretionary power than commonly believed.) Protip: rather than asking for a raise at an arbitrary number, try to find out the pay-band structure at your company. Know what the bands are, where you fall within them, and accordingly, how much room you've got to negotiate within reason. This information isn't always public knowledge, but chances are, somebody at your company has it. Reducing information asymmetry is key to a successful negotiation.
YZF 13y ago
I don't think it's that easy. If you ask for what you want and are refused you are now in a worse position. This is why people don't do this. Even in situations where you won't be worse off people (esp. introverts) wouldn't normally ask for what they want. The company has already lost when the employee is contemplating whether they should go look for a new job. Any outcome of this, whether the employee moves around in the company, leaves the company, takes a counter offer is all in the too little too late camp. That's why a good manager and a good company needs to actively invest effort in making sure their employees are happy and productive. How does the saying go, people don't leave companies, they leave their bosses... EDIT: It also depends on the company. In a large company like Microsoft you can make moves that are almost like moving to a different company and have advantages (seniority) over changing companies. My experience is those companies have a better chance of retaining employees because of that advantage as long as they make those moves reasonably easy.
- aidenn0 13y ago
  From the point of view of the manager, I agree (you need to proactively make sure the people you want to keep are happy). From the point of view of an employee, I disagree. If you are contemplating looking for a new job, then you are unhappy. If you are unhappy with your job, you should at least try talking to your manager. Either: A: They want to keep you and are reasonable and capable of making the adjustments you desire B: They don't want to keep you C: They aren't reasonable D: They are not capable of making the adjustments you desire In the event of B they don't want you to be working there any more, so look for a better job. In the event of C or D, you probably don't want to be working there anymore, so look for a better job. That makes it really easy to reject a potential counter-offer; if they won't give you what you need without you threatening to leave, you probably don't want to work there.
zendev 13y ago
If it does come down to a counter offer, I'd advise telling your current employer that your desires (salary, benefits, etc...) aren't up for negotiation. Give them concrete details of what you want and make sure they know you aren't opening the field for a lower offer. Way better for everybody this way.
Buttons840 13y ago
One advantage of this approach is your current employer will only give you what they're comfortable with when there is no threat of you leaving. Which is better than them offering you way more than they're comfortable with in the heat of the moment ("Oh noes, we HAVE to keep this guy.") and then later deciding they're unhappy with your compensations ("Wait, we're paying this guy too much.").
- vladimirralev 13y ago
  Well, that's one way to always keep your salary at the absolute minimum as an employee. This is the equivalent of the employee asking the employer to "Keep me posted when you can pay more, right buddy?". It's an unethical demand to keep yourself at disadvantage in negotiations. And those other jobs that pay more out of the box are more likely to give you a better career path with more benefits without having to confront them. Accounting for all the associated risks and stress in doing so..
vladimirralev 13y ago
You are assuming some sort of ideal case where both parties act in good faith. First of all, you have to make an educated guess what demands would be acceptable based on how the company presents ifself to you. If you ask for things that are normally considered unacceptable you are just exposing yourself as a person who is unsatisfied with his position and there is huge risk of being denied any further development with this company or even fired. For example, it might be reasonable to ask for 20-30% raise maximum. But if you have to ask for 200-300% salary raise, in a company that just told you budget is tight and there is not even enough money for legal fees to award shares, then save your breath. Such an extreme case is quite rare, but I've seen it happen. Most cases wouldn't be as bad, but you have to ask yourself if your demands have a good chance to be accepted before confronting the company, otherwise make sure you have an offer on the table. Nobody is paying you for the risks of asking too many questions.

sockgrant 13y ago

Absolutely the right approach. You owe it to yourself and to your employer to be honest with them. If you think you deserve more money, a new manager, a better project, etc. then ask. You shouldn't say you'll leave if you don't get it. You just lay out your reasons and make a simple request. Also, it's important to start these conversations early. If you want more money and are ready to quit within 1 month if you don't get it, you are asking too late. If you can't stand working for your manager for 1 more day and you haven't told anyone, you're too late. When you start having these wants, it's important to bring them up. "I'd like to be on track to be promoted within 1 year, how can I do this?" Stay on top of this subject with your manager. If you have problems with your manager, amicably let him know how you two could work better together. Make a few efforts at it. If it doesn't work then you let a higher-up(s) know and leave it to them. If you're proactive early about what you want from your job then you'll either get what you want or save time finding out that you won't get it. It will also lead to a very easy decision to stay/leave a job.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
jonnathanson 13y ago
This is good, solid advice. In general, taking your manager or company by surprise -- for good or bad -- is never a great strategy. If you're angling for a raise or a promotion, make your intentions known well in advance. Don't assume your boss can read your mind. Have a plan, get input from your manager, follow up on it, and show progress. Don't expect something to happen overnight, even if your boss wants to make it happen. He or she might have several layers of red tape to work through, or might be unable to give spot promotions and raises outside of a given cycle. (This is especially true at large companies, whose managers have less discretionary power than commonly believed.) Protip: rather than asking for a raise at an arbitrary number, try to find out the pay-band structure at your company. Know what the bands are, where you fall within them, and accordingly, how much room you've got to negotiate within reason. This information isn't always public knowledge, but chances are, somebody at your company has it. Reducing information asymmetry is key to a successful negotiation.

YZF 13y ago

I don't think it's that easy. If you ask for what you want and are refused you are now in a worse position. This is why people don't do this. Even in situations where you won't be worse off people (esp. introverts) wouldn't normally ask for what they want. The company has already lost when the employee is contemplating whether they should go look for a new job. Any outcome of this, whether the employee moves around in the company, leaves the company, takes a counter offer is all in the too little too late camp. That's why a good manager and a good company needs to actively invest effort in making sure their employees are happy and productive. How does the saying go, people don't leave companies, they leave their bosses... EDIT: It also depends on the company. In a large company like Microsoft you can make moves that are almost like moving to a different company and have advantages (seniority) over changing companies. My experience is those companies have a better chance of retaining employees because of that advantage as long as they make those moves reasonably easy.

aidenn0 13y ago
From the point of view of the manager, I agree (you need to proactively make sure the people you want to keep are happy). From the point of view of an employee, I disagree. If you are contemplating looking for a new job, then you are unhappy. If you are unhappy with your job, you should at least try talking to your manager. Either: A: They want to keep you and are reasonable and capable of making the adjustments you desire B: They don't want to keep you C: They aren't reasonable D: They are not capable of making the adjustments you desire In the event of B they don't want you to be working there any more, so look for a better job. In the event of C or D, you probably don't want to be working there anymore, so look for a better job. That makes it really easy to reject a potential counter-offer; if they won't give you what you need without you threatening to leave, you probably don't want to work there.

zendev 13y ago

If it does come down to a counter offer, I'd advise telling your current employer that your desires (salary, benefits, etc...) aren't up for negotiation. Give them concrete details of what you want and make sure they know you aren't opening the field for a lower offer. Way better for everybody this way.

Buttons840 13y ago

One advantage of this approach is your current employer will only give you what they're comfortable with when there is no threat of you leaving. Which is better than them offering you way more than they're comfortable with in the heat of the moment ("Oh noes, we HAVE to keep this guy.") and then later deciding they're unhappy with your compensations ("Wait, we're paying this guy too much.").

vladimirralev 13y ago
Well, that's one way to always keep your salary at the absolute minimum as an employee. This is the equivalent of the employee asking the employer to "Keep me posted when you can pay more, right buddy?". It's an unethical demand to keep yourself at disadvantage in negotiations. And those other jobs that pay more out of the box are more likely to give you a better career path with more benefits without having to confront them. Accounting for all the associated risks and stress in doing so..

vladimirralev 13y ago

You are assuming some sort of ideal case where both parties act in good faith. First of all, you have to make an educated guess what demands would be acceptable based on how the company presents ifself to you. If you ask for things that are normally considered unacceptable you are just exposing yourself as a person who is unsatisfied with his position and there is huge risk of being denied any further development with this company or even fired. For example, it might be reasonable to ask for 20-30% raise maximum. But if you have to ask for 200-300% salary raise, in a company that just told you budget is tight and there is not even enough money for legal fees to award shares, then save your breath. Such an extreme case is quite rare, but I've seen it happen. Most cases wouldn't be as bad, but you have to ask yourself if your demands have a good chance to be accepted before confronting the company, otherwise make sure you have an offer on the table. Nobody is paying you for the risks of asking too many questions.