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>I think this whole idea of Ray Kurzweil that we will someday upload our brain files into the cloud and run it there. Or able to survive outside our biological

by crag 13y ago

>I think this whole idea of Ray Kurzweil that we will someday upload our brain files into the cloud and run it there. Or able to survive outside our biological bodies, perfectly fits into the line of evolution we have followed at earth. If we transfer our minds into the "cloud" then are we still human? Are we even alive? What happens to our bodies? Are they cared for by robots that we control within the cloud? And if our body dies, then what? And I'm not even touching on the "religious" implications this would have? Man... what a fight that would be. ;) >Some humans like bacterias today will be around outside. Many will be inside helping AI machines run. And those "humans" inside the AI would no longer be human. Also this would a 2 class world. Which could easily end in conflict. Would the "minds" in the cloud consider the humans caring for their tech (and probably their bodies) consider them the same? And likewise for the humans outside.

kamaal 13y ago
To think of a human body as human is really a wrong way to look at it. To know why, ask yourself this question-- are people who have no limbs, hands or can't see or hear human? Our hands, legs, skins well nearly every thing in our bodies are more or less non intelligent entities at best serving as sensor inputs and bio-mechanical parts which move things around, which give inputs and receive inputs from the brain. Human bodies are the very same, which is what enables development of medical science as a general discipline. So is the human brain. Yet! The data in our brains which your gather by experience seems to vastly alter the individual nature of individual humans. All this combined together you can likely download the 'data' + 'meta files' in your brain someday. >>If we transfer our minds into the "cloud" then are we still human? Yes, Why would you doubt that. Lets do a simple experiment. Say you sleep today night. Without your knowledge some one just removes your brain and implants an exact electronic replica of it which resembles your brain as is. Your brain is simply receiving signals from your body. So will you notice any change when you wake up? Lets continue the experiment further, say the next day that electronic brain was removed and just connected to a simulator which will simulate your body as your know it and the world around you. When you get up the next day in the morning(in the simulator) will you know if you are even in a simulator? The whole point is you need to learn this concept that you are not your body, and your neural computer + software just lives within a biological body. Someday that meta information and data can just be taken out and everything else that acts as an input to it can be simulated. >>Are we even alive? Define alive? Alive is only your biological body able to continue to support your neural self further. Death is the opposite. >>Are they cared for by robots that we control within the cloud? Within the cloud, your meta information + your currently gathered information through life experience stays intact. Your new software brain(imagine it like a VM) can be fed inputs that simulate whatever world you want. Want heaven? Hell? Well whatever your want they can simulate it for you. You can see this even now, Most of us lucid dream. This is just an extension of that. >>And if our body dies, then what? The concept of a biological body doesn't exist anymore. You will have better hardware to run on. >>And those "humans" inside the AI would no longer be human. Why wouldn't they be?
- 1stop 13y ago
  You talk like this is a solved problem, dualism and monoism are as old as philosophy, both have valid and compelling arguments. Fortunately the world isn't a binary state machine and neither of these arguments are the right (or wrong) answer
  - kamaal 13y ago
    I never said its a solved problem. It probably won't for many decades or may be even centuries. But probably for the fist time, we have a real chance of achieving these sort of goals.
    - xmonkee 13y ago
      No. You're missing the point. You seem to assume that its a given that human consciousness can result from a created machine. We still don't know where consciousness resides, not even going into stuff like qualia. We aren't close to these "goals", we probably aren't even in the same century.
      - actsasbuffoon 13y ago
        A sufficiently realistic physics simulation would eventually evolve life, otherwise it wouldn't be very realistic. Simulating an entire universe as a roundabout way of simulating consciousness is probably the least efficient way to accomplish it, but it shows that it should be possible. Now we're just talking about a question of optimization; how can we simulate a single consciousness without also simulating a world around it.
        eevilspock 13y ago
        The simulator has to be "larger" than the simulation by definition, so you can't simulate the universe. You don't need to understand information theory to see this.
        13y ago

by crag 13y ago

kamaal 13y ago

To think of a human body as human is really a wrong way to look at it. To know why, ask yourself this question-- are people who have no limbs, hands or can't see or hear human? Our hands, legs, skins well nearly every thing in our bodies are more or less non intelligent entities at best serving as sensor inputs and bio-mechanical parts which move things around, which give inputs and receive inputs from the brain. Human bodies are the very same, which is what enables development of medical science as a general discipline. So is the human brain. Yet! The data in our brains which your gather by experience seems to vastly alter the individual nature of individual humans. All this combined together you can likely download the 'data' + 'meta files' in your brain someday. >>If we transfer our minds into the "cloud" then are we still human? Yes, Why would you doubt that. Lets do a simple experiment. Say you sleep today night. Without your knowledge some one just removes your brain and implants an exact electronic replica of it which resembles your brain as is. Your brain is simply receiving signals from your body. So will you notice any change when you wake up? Lets continue the experiment further, say the next day that electronic brain was removed and just connected to a simulator which will simulate your body as your know it and the world around you. When you get up the next day in the morning(in the simulator) will you know if you are even in a simulator? The whole point is you need to learn this concept that you are not your body, and your neural computer + software just lives within a biological body. Someday that meta information and data can just be taken out and everything else that acts as an input to it can be simulated. >>Are we even alive? Define alive? Alive is only your biological body able to continue to support your neural self further. Death is the opposite. >>Are they cared for by robots that we control within the cloud? Within the cloud, your meta information + your currently gathered information through life experience stays intact. Your new software brain(imagine it like a VM) can be fed inputs that simulate whatever world you want. Want heaven? Hell? Well whatever your want they can simulate it for you. You can see this even now, Most of us lucid dream. This is just an extension of that. >>And if our body dies, then what? The concept of a biological body doesn't exist anymore. You will have better hardware to run on. >>And those "humans" inside the AI would no longer be human. Why wouldn't they be?

1stop 13y ago
You talk like this is a solved problem, dualism and monoism are as old as philosophy, both have valid and compelling arguments. Fortunately the world isn't a binary state machine and neither of these arguments are the right (or wrong) answer
- kamaal 13y ago
  I never said its a solved problem. It probably won't for many decades or may be even centuries. But probably for the fist time, we have a real chance of achieving these sort of goals.
  - xmonkee 13y ago
    No. You're missing the point. You seem to assume that its a given that human consciousness can result from a created machine. We still don't know where consciousness resides, not even going into stuff like qualia. We aren't close to these "goals", we probably aren't even in the same century.
    - actsasbuffoon 13y ago
      A sufficiently realistic physics simulation would eventually evolve life, otherwise it wouldn't be very realistic. Simulating an entire universe as a roundabout way of simulating consciousness is probably the least efficient way to accomplish it, but it shows that it should be possible. Now we're just talking about a question of optimization; how can we simulate a single consciousness without also simulating a world around it.
      - eevilspock 13y ago
        The simulator has to be "larger" than the simulation by definition, so you can't simulate the universe. You don't need to understand information theory to see this.
        13y ago