6 ms·

for 99.99% of the population a simple thermostat works just fine. And nearly all of them don't even understand that the temperature setting doesn't actually cha

by hnriot 13y ago

for 99.99% of the population a simple thermostat works just fine. And nearly all of them don't even understand that the temperature setting doesn't actually change the temperature of the air, but rather the duration it remains on. NEST is pretty, but way over engineered for the task. Consumers just don't need it. I'm all for technology and am an early adopter and of course have heard of NEST, seen them etc. Like you say, it's hard to imagine some one here not having done so, but my guess is the commenter has seen them, but just didn't take it in because "home automation" has a long legacy of being utter crap. When you get past the pretty design, there's nothing really to the thing. It's just a massively over engineered pretty consumer device that very few people need. I'm pretty sure Apple didn't buy them because they could just as simply designed their own. I fail to see why the thermostat can't (if Apple were to design it) not have a UI at all but rather just be a little plugin thing, maybe "Thermoport Express" and you use your iPhone to make changes from anywhere, don't even need to get up and look at the device. Any hardware solution quickly looks old. The iPhone (to Apple) is the UI for everything.

kashkhan 13y ago
> the temperature setting doesn't actually change the temperature of the air, I am sorry... yes having a higher temp setting means the heat will on for longer (or ac for less) but it DOES change the temperature of the air. The thermostat measures the temperature and turns the mahcine on and off accordingly.
- roel_v 13y ago
  Do you honestly not know what his point was?
  - kashkhan 13y ago
    I didn't argue with the rest of his point. That he said that the thermostat changes the time the burner is on is not true. A thermostat is not a timer. Time on is not the controlled variable.
    - roel_v 13y ago
      Come on, now you're taking semantic quibbling to farcical levels. Yes it is true that a thermostat is not a timer, nobody claimed that. What it (in it simplest form) does is turn on the burner until the set temperature has been reached. My point was, for any reasonable, non-autistic reader, it was perfectly clear that the GP knows how a thermostat works and that his point was that many people think the thermostat changes the temperature that the burner generates, or at least whatever is output by that burner/installation (be it water or air). Now I don't have an opinion on that matter, but I'm annoyed by your littering of the conversation over a slight sloppiness in expression in a context that doesn't call for the level of correctness you, from your high horse, are calling for.
      - kashkhan 13y ago
        > many people think the thermostat changes the temperature that the burner generates, There might be many such people but that is not what he said. I apologize that my comment clashes with your aesthetic preference of what a discussion should look like.
        roel_v 13y ago
        Well I don't think we're going to agree but I upvoted you nonetheless because I like the style of your comeback :)
        kashkhan 13y ago
        that's great. i don't really love thermostats that much:)
- marcosdumay 13y ago
  It doen not immediatly change the temperature. It acts by proxy. If you never met one of those people that say "hey, it's too hot here, let me lower the thermostat" just after they turn the AC on, you are a very lucky guy.
  - kashkhan 13y ago
    just like the steering wheel does not turn the car, and the rocket engine doesn't put the rocket into space. The controller controls the input. The state changes, because the control input is changed. The thermostat is not a timer.
cmelbye 13y ago
I think Google would probably disagree with you (and they'll bet $3.2 billion on it.) Nest Thermostat has various concrete benefits, such as energy savings, general ease-of-use, and aesthetics, but more importantly it signals the beginning of other thoughtfully designed hardware experiences for the household from the company.
cloudwalking 13y ago
Nest claims to save people, on average, 19.5% on their heating and cooling bill. If you're paying $50 per month for heating/cooling and you buy a Nest, you're now paying $40 per month instead. Over a few years time, Nest quickly pays for itself, saves you money every month, and reduces your energy footprint. It doesn't seem like a "massively over engineered pretty device that very few people need" to me.
- Nickoladze 13y ago
  It depends on how much you care about energy efficiency. I, for instance, run 3 separate computers 24/7 when I could probably get away with combining them into 1 or 2 if I wanted. I could also turn them off when I'm not home. I just don't really care.
  - cmelbye 13y ago
    Despite your personal preferences, I don't think it's really up for debate that a lot of people would, in general, like to spend less money than they currently spend.
ZeroGravitas 13y ago
A "simple" thermostat is costing you hundreds of dollars a year. You can probably get most of the savings with what the US apparently call setback thermostats: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmable_thermostat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmable_thermostat (that page cites Consumer Reports as these will save you $180 per year, edit: and interestingly lower down it says that in actual deployments they may slightly increase bills/energy usage, main culprit? the horrible UI) But a) even to get the basics they have a UI like programming VCRs, and so can't be what you refer to as "simple" and b) they have obvious failure modes that need babysitting and manual intervention like it taking longer to heat your house up during cold winters (or just an unusually cold day) so the time it comes on in the morning should be slightly earlier. It's a real UI challenge, that if solved will save money and energy (which seems to be a thing Google is interested in generally). There are already products that simply shift the UI into a smartphone app (like British Gas's Hive https://www.hivehome.com/ https://www.hivehome.com/) and otherwise are mostly just programmable thermostats but they mostly still have a box (for manual overrides) and cost as much as Nest, without looking as nice or having such clever software.
- maxerickson 13y ago
  $50 Honeywell thermometers, the programmable ones with the questionable UI, will adjust the pre heat interval on their own. That isn't as fancy as responding to the weather, but the feature is pretty common.

by hnriot 13y ago

kashkhan 13y ago

> the temperature setting doesn't actually change the temperature of the air, I am sorry... yes having a higher temp setting means the heat will on for longer (or ac for less) but it DOES change the temperature of the air. The thermostat measures the temperature and turns the mahcine on and off accordingly.

roel_v 13y ago
Do you honestly not know what his point was?
- kashkhan 13y ago
  I didn't argue with the rest of his point. That he said that the thermostat changes the time the burner is on is not true. A thermostat is not a timer. Time on is not the controlled variable.
  - roel_v 13y ago
    Come on, now you're taking semantic quibbling to farcical levels. Yes it is true that a thermostat is not a timer, nobody claimed that. What it (in it simplest form) does is turn on the burner until the set temperature has been reached. My point was, for any reasonable, non-autistic reader, it was perfectly clear that the GP knows how a thermostat works and that his point was that many people think the thermostat changes the temperature that the burner generates, or at least whatever is output by that burner/installation (be it water or air). Now I don't have an opinion on that matter, but I'm annoyed by your littering of the conversation over a slight sloppiness in expression in a context that doesn't call for the level of correctness you, from your high horse, are calling for.
    - kashkhan 13y ago
      > many people think the thermostat changes the temperature that the burner generates, There might be many such people but that is not what he said. I apologize that my comment clashes with your aesthetic preference of what a discussion should look like.
      - roel_v 13y ago
        Well I don't think we're going to agree but I upvoted you nonetheless because I like the style of your comeback :)
        kashkhan 13y ago
        that's great. i don't really love thermostats that much:)
marcosdumay 13y ago
It doen not immediatly change the temperature. It acts by proxy. If you never met one of those people that say "hey, it's too hot here, let me lower the thermostat" just after they turn the AC on, you are a very lucky guy.
- kashkhan 13y ago
  just like the steering wheel does not turn the car, and the rocket engine doesn't put the rocket into space. The controller controls the input. The state changes, because the control input is changed. The thermostat is not a timer.

cmelbye 13y ago

I think Google would probably disagree with you (and they'll bet $3.2 billion on it.) Nest Thermostat has various concrete benefits, such as energy savings, general ease-of-use, and aesthetics, but more importantly it signals the beginning of other thoughtfully designed hardware experiences for the household from the company.

cloudwalking 13y ago

Nest claims to save people, on average, 19.5% on their heating and cooling bill. If you're paying $50 per month for heating/cooling and you buy a Nest, you're now paying $40 per month instead. Over a few years time, Nest quickly pays for itself, saves you money every month, and reduces your energy footprint. It doesn't seem like a "massively over engineered pretty device that very few people need" to me.

Nickoladze 13y ago
It depends on how much you care about energy efficiency. I, for instance, run 3 separate computers 24/7 when I could probably get away with combining them into 1 or 2 if I wanted. I could also turn them off when I'm not home. I just don't really care.
- cmelbye 13y ago
  Despite your personal preferences, I don't think it's really up for debate that a lot of people would, in general, like to spend less money than they currently spend.

ZeroGravitas 13y ago

A "simple" thermostat is costing you hundreds of dollars a year. You can probably get most of the savings with what the US apparently call setback thermostats: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmable_thermostat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmable_thermostat (that page cites Consumer Reports as these will save you $180 per year, edit: and interestingly lower down it says that in actual deployments they may slightly increase bills/energy usage, main culprit? the horrible UI) But a) even to get the basics they have a UI like programming VCRs, and so can't be what you refer to as "simple" and b) they have obvious failure modes that need babysitting and manual intervention like it taking longer to heat your house up during cold winters (or just an unusually cold day) so the time it comes on in the morning should be slightly earlier. It's a real UI challenge, that if solved will save money and energy (which seems to be a thing Google is interested in generally). There are already products that simply shift the UI into a smartphone app (like British Gas's Hive https://www.hivehome.com/ https://www.hivehome.com/) and otherwise are mostly just programmable thermostats but they mostly still have a box (for manual overrides) and cost as much as Nest, without looking as nice or having such clever software.

maxerickson 13y ago
$50 Honeywell thermometers, the programmable ones with the questionable UI, will adjust the pre heat interval on their own. That isn't as fancy as responding to the weather, but the feature is pretty common.