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Taxi protest in Paris turns to guerrilla warfare as Uber car attacked on freeway
- rekatz 13y agoUber driver apparently pulled them out safely. It's a shame some countries take change so violently. I love Paris and France, I also use Uber there... this is terrible. SO glad Kat and Renaud made it home safely afterwards.
- aragot 13y agoThe article doesn't state it's a protest against Uber. I condemn violence and most strikes when they're used as an easy form of politics, but we can also note that protesters don't feel supported by their government and that's their way to make a threat.
- static_typed 13y agoLuckily for Uber, the protesters only protest a maximum of thirty five hours per week, Fuck off entirely for the month of August, and won't travel more than two miles from one of the dirty bistros to protest in the first place. If I was Uber, I would pay cash to all the homeless people to take slow long rides in the normal cabs to block them up.
- kubiiii 13y agoYou forgot to mention they only shower once a week. Forgot the sarcasm warning.
- carlob 13y agoI downvoted your comment because it doesn't add nothing to the conversation other than prejudice and borders on racism. Every other day there is content on the front page suggesting that a shorter work week and 4 weeks of holiday are actually good for you and still here you are. You're probably just a troll, I shouldn't even have replied.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- stumpyfr 13y agoCan we please stop that type of comment? I guess...maybe I am wrong we are here because we share common interest in new technology and future, not racisme and old jokes :).
- tadfisher 13y agoWhat a great way to win support for your cause.
- wavesounds 13y agoThis is simple case of a Scab breaking down the power of the union and the union fighting back against it. Violence is wrong and this is not ok. However, Uber should be more aware of what they're 'disrupting'. Strong unions see this as a foreign company threatening their livelihoods and there will be push back.
- collypops 13y agoThat was my point, as subtly as I hinted it. Some people just don't have a sense of humour though. Or maybe I'm not funny. Or maybe they're too attached to what I'm poking at. Who knows. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7049636 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7049636
- rmc 13y agoHowever, Uber should be more aware of what they're 'disrupting'. Strong unions see this as a foreign company threatening their livelihoods and there will be push back. Yeah, this isn't USA. There are actual employment rights and strong trade unions here.
- onli 13y agoBut also criticism of taxis. Have a look at http://transports.blog.lemonde.fr/2014/01/12/pourquoi-je-nai-plus-envie-de-prendre-le-taxi/ http://transports.blog.lemonde.fr/2014/01/12/pourquoi-je-nai... for an example.
- david927 13y agoI'm also in France and I am very happy that workers actually have rights here (as opposed to my native land, the USA). But you always must keep diligence, because unions can devolve into a mafia. The taxis here in France are an example of that. I have never had a single ride that was the correct price, and after many attempts I gave up. I'm certainly not alone. People have been trying to disrupt and get around them for ages but they fight as mafia do: fiercely.
- faster 13y ago
- stumpyfr 13y agoAll french people are not rude, stupid and whatever like them ;) It's a shame and in the same time, we can use it against cabs who don't understand that it's maybe time to accept change and move on with, not against.
- kubiiii 13y agoI think the protest is not directed towards the right direction, but Parisian taxi drivers need to buy a license which is like 200 k. They see this investment go down the drain as new businesses like uber appear.
- stumpyfr 13y agoI know, I am from Paris :). But my point is "why not accept it's maybe time to change some "things"". Why we use Uber? it's geek (ok its a point) but mostly because: -nice and clean car -nice people -good service -moderne (phone, payement,...) I am sure it's possible to modernise cabs of Paris (and other cities)(hmm maybe time to think about a new project! ;))
- nraynaud 13y agoAs a French, I hate taxis as much as other people. I guess the taxis drivers only have other taxi drivers as friends. Even the government is acting out of fear. I suppose the government could lead a battle, but they have to pick them wisely since they have low ratings, and gay mariage have already quite strained the support in a very conservative country. Moreover that would be seen as a movement to ease the entry of a foreign company stealing the money from french ones.
- collypops 13y agoThat's what I call disruption
- negamax 13y agoThis is like Hotel owners hitting home owners for being host on Airbnb?
- _pmf_ 13y ago> This is like Hotel owners hitting home owners for being host on Airbnb? Hotel owners are typically a bit above minimum wage.
- chii 13y agoare you saying that being on minimum wage is a justification for violence?
- roma1n 13y agoFrench cab drivers are typically way above minimum wage...
- brohee 13y agoNot in Paris. The independents still paying their medallion ("plaque de taxi", valued at about 240k €) are strangled by debt, and those that are employee are barely above minimum wage. It's pretty obvious to everyone that dropping the medallion system is the way forwards, but is there any example anywhere of dropping the medallion system in a fair manner for those that actually bought their medallion recently? Also, another thing I'm pretty concerned about is the qualification of non taxi drivers. The taxi license is actually very hard to get, I'm not so sure of what Uber requires of its drivers...
- icebraining 13y agois there any example anywhere of dropping the medallion system in a fair manner for those that actually bought their medallion recently? Why not just return their money?
- brohee 13y ago
- kristaps 13y agoMany taxi drivers are considered semi-criminal tough guys where I'm from (apparently elsewhere around the world too), so this is one incumbent which can become quite unpleasant while on their way out.
- tikhonj 13y agoFor reference, the 15-minute law mentioned in the article is a restriction that companies like Uber have to force their customers to wait at least 15 minutes before getting a ride. Given that the average black car gets to a customer in 7 minutes, this is a serious handicap. [1] This sort of law feels really backwards. It degrades the service of companies like Uber and imposes negative externalities on society--more cars pointlessly idling and waiting around, more traffic congestion and so on. The idea behind a market is to improve quality; trying to "improve" the market by arbitrarily degrading the quality of some competitors is exactly counter-productive. Given that the taxis have gotten this absurdly protectionist restriction in place, it's even harder to empathize with their protest. Actually getting violent is even worse. Of course, it's also important to remember that this is likely an extreme action by a single individual and does not represent taxi drivers as a group. In fact, there is no immediate link between the attack and taxis, although it seems extremely likely. That said, even ignoring the violence, I do not really sympathize with the taxi protests here. [1]: http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/28/uber-lecab-and-others-now-have-to-wait-15-minutes-before-picking-you-up-in-france/ http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/28/uber-lecab-and-others-now-h...
- pervycreeper 13y ago> It degrades the service of companies like Uber and imposes negative externalities on society What are you complaining about? This is just the french way.
- noja 13y agoIs the "American way" (the NYC medallion system) better? These generalisations don't help.
- rdl 13y agoThe London way (a difficult exam, probably far beyond what's actually needed for the job, as the main way to reduce supply) is probably the best way to manage supply. Most American taxi markets aren't restricted like NYC (or a few other big cities), and even those that are are not anywhere near as expensive. NYC and SF seem like the big outliers for restrictive permits in the US.
- pointer899 13y agoGlad to see the taxi drivers of Paris taking action. Uber are just another scumbag American company, trying to turn a skilled profession into an anonymous commodity service, and in the process ensure the CEO makes millions while the employees receive peanuts. This doesn't fly in a country with such strong Unions and solidarity as France.
- mgraczyk 13y agoThis seems like sarcasm, but if it isn't would you care to elaborate on how France or its citizens are harmed by Uber? You seem to have first praised the Taxi drivers for lashing out at Uber drivers, but then you claim that Uber is a "scumbag" because of the way it treats its drivers. Isn't that contradictory?
- pointer899 13y agoNot sarcasm. American companies are notorious for treating employees like shit and paying them as little as they legally can. French Unions ensure decent working conditions and a fair wage.
- icebraining 13y ago"treating employees like shit" Unlike smashing the windows and tires of the car they're driving? The guy driving the Uber car is just an employee, too.
- pointer899 13y agoHe's essentially a scab, undermining the Unions bargaining power. Enough scabs and it becomes difficult for employees to be treated fairly.
- VMG 13y agoMaybe their definition of "fair" is off.
- neverminder 13y agoThe luddism approach never wins, but there will always be people who will try.
- rmc 13y agoOh man, you don't wanna take on the french unions. They'll protest when it's cold and burn paris to warm the place up. Truck drivers starved the country of petrol a few years ago. This ain't America.
- mnml_ 13y agoreplace the word unions by mafias
- markdown 13y agoNot a fan of unions or labour rights? Why call them mafias?
- mnml_ 13y agoI don't think we should compare the taxi lobby to an union. French politicians are scared of them for one reason : they keep talking about politics to their clients. Violence isn't a such a nice way to get what you want.
- jaekwon 13y agoThe way I think of a union, it's an organization of employees who bargain with its employer. Unless the entire taxicab industry is nationalized by law in France, it makes no sense to me that a taxicab union is protesting against another company disrupting their business. That's just being a thug. You should have the right to organize for bargaining of salary. Imposing an artificial handicap on another business model is really backwards.
- dalke 13y agoYour way of thinking about unions is incomplete. For one, a "its employer" doesn't work. The employer does not employ the union, and employees of multiple companies may be part of the same union. ".. who bargain with their employers" is a better fit. For another, a union can do more than just bargin with the employer. It can provide skills training, mentorship, insurance, petition government on behalf of the employees, and more, even outside of any employment relationship. For a third, union abilities in the US are "artifically handicapped". Jurisdictional strikes, secondary boycotts, common situs picketing, closed shops, and other actions are prohibited by law. By your argument, you want unions in the US to have much more power than they already do.
- VSerge 13y agoThis calls for the police to get involved and bring these attackers to court, plain and simple. How anyone could imagine this is a valid form of protest is beyond me.
- Nux 13y agoTimes are changing and people tend to resist change. Unfortunately many times it gets violent. Unions are a dangerous thing to mess with, but in the end the customer convenience should win. All they need to make sure is that Uber pay their proper taxes in France. ;-)
- userbinator 13y agoWould it be of any benefit if Uber cars were less identifiable?
- aragot 13y agoYes. While Uber doesn't seem faithful to me on this story, I would also love if taxis in Paris were affordable and good quality, like in Madrid and Syndey. It would develop the job and reduce car pollution.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- rdl 13y agoThis would be really terrifying for the passengers and driver -- impressed that the Uber driver was able to deal with it as well as he did. This pretty clearly falls into a lethal self defense situation, so driving off, and if required through, the attackers would be totally reasonable, but if your car is already disabled you're kind of screwed. It's amazing how some cities have essentially criminal mafias running taxis (Paris, Pattaya, to some extent Bangkok), some have crazy feudalism (New York, where you have rich people sitting on $1mm medallions and Somali immigrants making $30/day to drive), some have what seem to be overpriced but reasonably well run services (London, Singapore), and some just have ~no taxis at all (most of the US outside major cities, and most poor parts of US cities). I will shed zero tears for the end of the taxi industry. First by Uber and ride sharing, finally by robots.
- vincie 13y agoUber and it's ilk are nice and disruptive and all and you get a cheap ride out of it, but we must not forget that they are disrupting people's livelihood and cultural and social traditions too. I do not condone the violence, but I kind of understand it. Do we really want every country to be Americanized like this, one disruptive app at a time? To some people, these "unions" appear to be protection rackets, but I saw them as part of the French society and culture. If you don't like it, don't force your own beliefs and practices down their throats. Go somewhere else.
- pointer899 13y agoThank you, could not agree more. Too often people take a short-term approach to such things - "I'm getting a cheaper price so who cares that the taxi driver is being paid an unfair wage". Seems to be an American problem which is spreading like an infestation to other countries.
- digitalengineer 13y agoOh yeah and the Mafia is just part of Italian culture right? Don't like it go somewhere else? As a person with Amsterdam Taxi experience (including getting pulled out of a taxi and forced to ride another taxi at the train station at midnight) I welcome competition. The problem with no competition is the way some taxi-drivers can treat their 'clients': We've had drivers refusing to accept clients, because they were female, or because the ride wasn't profitable enough or even because they were BLIND. The driver didn't want the dog in the car. We've even had drivers trying to rape clients. It's a bloody mess. UBER in Amsterdam has been a big success. I welcome them with arms open wide.
- vincie 13y agoThe mafia is illegal in Italy as far as I know, so that is not a valid comparison. Yes there are problems with all taxi drivers, and I do not see how Uber drivers are immune from these.
- digitalengineer 13y ago
- DanBC 13y agoFrench labour laws are serious. French unions don't mess around. Farmers use their machines to fling cow shit at government buildings. They set fire to lorries full of live sheep. See this example of officials vigorously enforcing labour laws. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/french-pub-fined-9000-after-customers-returned-empties-to-bar--because-its-undeclared-labour-9018432.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/french-pub-f...
- thaumasiotes 13y ago> They set fire to lorries full of live sheep. Wow. I'd love to see that happen in the US, where Obama was criticized for swatting a fly in public.
- parasight 13y ago> There’s no confirmation that this attack came from the protesting taxi drivers So why are we talking as if it came form the protesting taxi drivers then? Maybe they were just ordinary thugs. I know people who got robed in their rental car in Paris. I love Paris but there are certainly saver places in France.
- snitko 13y agoLet me tell you how things are in Russia. We don't have any taxi driver unions, I don't think we have any licensing for taxi drivers, but if we do, it's probably not expensive. In Russia it works this way: you go out on the street, raise your hand and you get your car in like 1 minute (even at 4am in the morning it doesn't take very long time, provided you are downtown, did that many times) - basically some guy who wants an extra buck will stop and get you anywhere. Some make a living that way. You negotiate the price, it's usually rather cheap even in large cities compared to what you'd be charged for the same ride in Europe or the US. You don't have to tip the driver, since the price is negotiated beforehand. Now we also have a lot of competing official taxi companies. They all are relatively cheap and they mostly get their clients through internet or phone and the use case for those is when you need to go to the airport or have a pre-arranged trip. We also have jitney transportation which is only slightly more expensive, but much faster than public transportation. Drivers are mostly from central asian republics or southern republics - demographics russians are rather hostile to - yet I haven't met more friendly drivers in the whole world. And, in my personal view, people are rather receptive to that and are quite polite with them too. It's pure competition and free market and it works to the benefit of all. You can criticize Russia all you want, but in some areas the free market here exists relatively untouched (probably thanks to bribes, but still, it's better than regulation).
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- snitko 13y agoNo, I don't think so. Maybe from some. But my guess is that most of them would have no idea where to get you a prostitute. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but it sounds like a stereotype.
- neverminder 13y agoMy friends travel quite a bit in Russia and from what I hear it would probably be difficult to find a taxi driver who couldn't get you to a hooker. I strongly believe the same is in all other countries.
- aric 13y ago"Microsoft Managers And Employees Protest, Bash Computer of Linux User" Eventually, some of these hardworking taxi drivers will have an epiphany. They're fighting the wrong entity. Fighting against decentralized commerce and personal choice is generally a side of aggressors. When the dynamics of reality become inconvenient to monetary interests, the first call of aggressors and cultists alike is to forsake the freedom of others. We pay the piper. We eat gruel. You better fall in line too, or else... The sooner a person begins to actually care about other people, the sooner a person may acknowledge reality to adapt or improve.
- vincie 13y agoOr, turning it around somewhat: "Lisp Programmers Demand Expulsion of Users of Inferior Languages". Dude, leave them alone. If that is what they want to do, let them be. Never mind what your opinion of "improvement" is.
- ahomescu1 13y ago> Dude, leave them alone. If that is what they want to do, let them be. If they're using violence to get what they want, you can't really leave them alone (morally or practically).
- tga_d 13y agoThis isn't "guerrilla warfare," it's an isolated case of assault.
- cpa 13y agoBashing french unions certainly is fun, but please note that there absolutely no evidence (in the article) that the attack was perpetrated by a french taxi driver. This article is either very poorly documented or consciously misleading (or both). > There’s no confirmation that this attack came from the protesting taxi drivers; however, that certainly seems to line up with the sentiment felt by taxi drivers these days – unwarranted hate.
- userulluipeste 13y agoBut it's not only about the physical attack itself, which I agree that it's doubtful, it's also about the broad view. There's an economical-based conflict that stretches far out of pure economical front, using questionable methods, for questionable reasons (fight someone because some one else ripped you off?). Not that is something unique, but interesting to watch nevertheless.
- sebastialonso 13y agoI've been always curious about these relationship that arises when someone disrupts an existing ecosystem. I'm all for innovation,and finding ways to make things, environments and habits, better, more efficient, safer and more intelligent. This, however, raises an interesting moral dilemma. In these ecosystems, prior to the disruptor, agents live and thrive. After the disruptor, these agents must adapt or otherwise, be gone. When you think these agents are actually human beings, with issues, dreams and families, a new variable is added to the discussion. Is it OK to disrupt an ecosystem if you find a way to make everything better? Is it moral? You found a better way, so surely it must be implemented, and there are few arguments against that. The agents in the ecosystem had almost all what was needed to find the new way, to enhance their ecosystem: time, experience, imagination. And for one motive or another, they failed to do it. What is their argument when someone else comes along and provides a better solution? I'm not trying to sound Randian or anything, but I truly believe that 'we have families to feed' or 'will lose job' is not a very good argument. Is the ecosystem supposed to be kept in the previous state just for the agenda of a subset of the agents? Under that argument, we shouldn't have cars in the first place. Nor bronze age (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EGAtLGDU7M http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EGAtLGDU7M) Is this a testament of the inherent cruelty (cruelty in a poetic way, just as natural selection can be thought of cruel) of the free market, or just a testament of the importance of innovation as a way of survival? Maybe both? I can't help but notice heavy analogies with Natural Selection.
- jaekwon 13y agoAt the same time, it's just a bit strange that we take "innovation" for granted. Think about it. The way we prod it forward, always stumbling away from our past. Overall may be the biggest baddest religion man has ever seen. Godliness is our final destination. That's significant, and possibly our own undoing.