13 ms·

Removed gendered pronouns; replace with neutral, singular "they"

10 points by pearjuice 13y ago

cbeach 13y ago
Do people join the "Feminist Software Foundation" when they've given up on actual software development and instead prefer to incite needless gender warfare?
- jimboyoungblood 13y ago
  Why don't you ask them directly? The email address listed in their github profile is: feministsoftwarefoundation@loves.dicksinmyan.us
- codygman 13y ago
  Gender warfare? Tell me you are practicing your hyperbole cbeach!
wanda 13y ago
Don't discuss this. I beg of you all.
lemcoe9 13y ago
"They" is plurals. It doesn't make sense to replace all he's and she's with they.
- allard 13y ago
  Meanwhile, many great writers — Byron, Austen, Thackeray, Eliot, Dickens, Trollope and more — continued to use they and company as singulars, never mind the grammarians. In fact, so many people now use they in the old singular way that dictionaries and usage guides are taking a critical look at the prohibition against it. R. W. Burchfield, editor of The New Fowler’s Modern English Usage, has written that it’s only a matter of time before this practice becomes standard English: “The process now seems irreversible.” Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary (11th ed.) already finds the singular they acceptable “even in literary and formal contexts,” but the Usage Panel of The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language (4th ed.) isn’t there yet. —nytimes.com, 2009
- mcv 13y ago
  It does, but you need to do it correctly. "They's" is stupid and wrong. Had it been changed to "they're", it'd be fine.
  - codygman 13y ago
    I thought this too, but apparently "They's" is correct? I'm not all too sure, but all in all none of it seems like a big deal to me.
- gte910h 13y ago
  We use "you" instead of "thee and thou" now
  - justbaker 13y ago
    no. you don't use me. I shall not get used, sir!
mtrimpe 13y ago
Handled with class by Chris. No drama, no fanfare. Good job.
- phpnode 13y ago
  with class or out of fear because of the insane bullying that went on in https://github.com/joyent/libuv/pull/1015 https://github.com/joyent/libuv/pull/1015 ?
  - quenlinlom 13y ago
    Probably both. I foresee both sincere and satirical efforts of such extremist "gender neutral" feminist edits to increase in the coming months after the libuv incident.
- MetaCosm 13y ago
  It is a troll: feministsoftwarefoundation@loves.dicksinmyan.us (https://github.com/Feminist-Software-Foundation https://github.com/Feminist-Software-Foundation) ... What is amazingly sad is that an obvious troll was taken seriously. Has the discussion gotten so skewed that obvious trolls can't be seperated from real complaints? Swift action was taken out of fear -- fear of being called a sexist, fear of being judged... it just makes me sad all around.
  - mtrimpe 13y ago
    I wasn't sure if it was a troll or a mentally unstable person (although trolls arguably are too,) but either way this was still an excellent way to deal with this. Ideally Chris would've made the troll improve the correctness of his edits, in which case they might actually end up having a net positive effect, but it was still handled pretty well.
    - MetaCosm 13y ago
      Really? Gotta be honest, I found it sad. Not on behalf of the troll -- it is a clever sort of social commentary (if it was intentional social commentary). Pointing out with a bright light that we will apply insane patches rather than even be lightly brushed with the label sexist.
justinsteele 13y ago
What's interesting to me is the argument that feminists have "too much time on their hands" if they are concerning themselves with submitting real gender neutral patches that make sense (ie. not this). Compare that to the creation of "languages", fake patches, and troll accounts in order to attempt to discredit actual points made by feminists. I find the second immensely more of a "waste of time".
- gte910h 13y ago
  This isn't fake. They has been used for indeterminate gender since the 1800s Additionally, we already do not use a singular (thou/thee) for 2nd person anymore, only "you"
  - MetaCosm 13y ago
    https://github.com/Feminist-Software-Foundation https://github.com/Feminist-Software-Foundation "feministsoftwarefoundation@loves.dicksinmyan.us"
    - codygman 13y ago
      It doesn't matter, they are being so ironic they are helping the cause of feminism ;)
      - MetaCosm 13y ago
        If you think they are helping the cause, feel free to support them. When the line between legitimate complaints and open insulting mocking is so fuzzy that a developer can't tell the difference and applies that patch out of fear, I think that is an awful thing for feminism.
        quenlinlom 13y ago
        It also says a lot about the current state of "feminism" (whatever no-true-scotsman definition of the word might take) is with regards to the coding community. I mean, people can no longer discern if it's a troll or a sincere "feminist" any more without resorting to picking up obvious troll e-mail addresses. (And evern then, the dev of Light Table just accepted the troll pull request.)
mcv 13y ago
I generally approve of gender-neutral language, but there are two big problems with this pull request: 1: "They's" is wrong. Don't do this with a blind global replace, but read what you're modifying. 2: Some of the changes are a quote from a song. No idea what that quote is doing in the code, but misquoting is not an improvement. It doesn't help that the person proposing the change is behaving like a troll. But if someone wants to do this change correctly, I'm all for it.

10 points by pearjuice 13y ago

Do people join the "Feminist Software Foundation" when they've given up on actual software development and instead prefer to incite needless gender warfare?

jimboyoungblood 13y ago
Why don't you ask them directly? The email address listed in their github profile is: feministsoftwarefoundation@loves.dicksinmyan.us
codygman 13y ago
Gender warfare? Tell me you are practicing your hyperbole cbeach!

wanda 13y ago

Don't discuss this. I beg of you all.

lemcoe9 13y ago

"They" is plurals. It doesn't make sense to replace all he's and she's with they.

allard 13y ago
Meanwhile, many great writers — Byron, Austen, Thackeray, Eliot, Dickens, Trollope and more — continued to use they and company as singulars, never mind the grammarians. In fact, so many people now use they in the old singular way that dictionaries and usage guides are taking a critical look at the prohibition against it. R. W. Burchfield, editor of The New Fowler’s Modern English Usage, has written that it’s only a matter of time before this practice becomes standard English: “The process now seems irreversible.” Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary (11th ed.) already finds the singular they acceptable “even in literary and formal contexts,” but the Usage Panel of The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language (4th ed.) isn’t there yet. —nytimes.com, 2009
mcv 13y ago
It does, but you need to do it correctly. "They's" is stupid and wrong. Had it been changed to "they're", it'd be fine.
- codygman 13y ago
  I thought this too, but apparently "They's" is correct? I'm not all too sure, but all in all none of it seems like a big deal to me.
gte910h 13y ago
We use "you" instead of "thee and thou" now
- justbaker 13y ago
  no. you don't use me. I shall not get used, sir!

mtrimpe 13y ago

Handled with class by Chris. No drama, no fanfare. Good job.

phpnode 13y ago
with class or out of fear because of the insane bullying that went on in https://github.com/joyent/libuv/pull/1015 https://github.com/joyent/libuv/pull/1015 ?
- quenlinlom 13y ago
  Probably both. I foresee both sincere and satirical efforts of such extremist "gender neutral" feminist edits to increase in the coming months after the libuv incident.
MetaCosm 13y ago
It is a troll: feministsoftwarefoundation@loves.dicksinmyan.us (https://github.com/Feminist-Software-Foundation https://github.com/Feminist-Software-Foundation) ... What is amazingly sad is that an obvious troll was taken seriously. Has the discussion gotten so skewed that obvious trolls can't be seperated from real complaints? Swift action was taken out of fear -- fear of being called a sexist, fear of being judged... it just makes me sad all around.
- mtrimpe 13y ago
  I wasn't sure if it was a troll or a mentally unstable person (although trolls arguably are too,) but either way this was still an excellent way to deal with this. Ideally Chris would've made the troll improve the correctness of his edits, in which case they might actually end up having a net positive effect, but it was still handled pretty well.
  - MetaCosm 13y ago
    Really? Gotta be honest, I found it sad. Not on behalf of the troll -- it is a clever sort of social commentary (if it was intentional social commentary). Pointing out with a bright light that we will apply insane patches rather than even be lightly brushed with the label sexist.

justinsteele 13y ago

What's interesting to me is the argument that feminists have "too much time on their hands" if they are concerning themselves with submitting real gender neutral patches that make sense (ie. not this). Compare that to the creation of "languages", fake patches, and troll accounts in order to attempt to discredit actual points made by feminists. I find the second immensely more of a "waste of time".

gte910h 13y ago
This isn't fake. They has been used for indeterminate gender since the 1800s Additionally, we already do not use a singular (thou/thee) for 2nd person anymore, only "you"
- MetaCosm 13y ago
  https://github.com/Feminist-Software-Foundation https://github.com/Feminist-Software-Foundation "feministsoftwarefoundation@loves.dicksinmyan.us"
  - codygman 13y ago
    It doesn't matter, they are being so ironic they are helping the cause of feminism ;)
    - MetaCosm 13y ago
      If you think they are helping the cause, feel free to support them. When the line between legitimate complaints and open insulting mocking is so fuzzy that a developer can't tell the difference and applies that patch out of fear, I think that is an awful thing for feminism.
      - quenlinlom 13y ago
        It also says a lot about the current state of "feminism" (whatever no-true-scotsman definition of the word might take) is with regards to the coding community. I mean, people can no longer discern if it's a troll or a sincere "feminist" any more without resorting to picking up obvious troll e-mail addresses. (And evern then, the dev of Light Table just accepted the troll pull request.)

mcv 13y ago

I generally approve of gender-neutral language, but there are two big problems with this pull request: 1: "They's" is wrong. Don't do this with a blind global replace, but read what you're modifying. 2: Some of the changes are a quote from a song. No idea what that quote is doing in the code, but misquoting is not an improvement. It doesn't help that the person proposing the change is behaving like a troll. But if someone wants to do this change correctly, I'm all for it.