4 ms·

We dont seem to be so generous to Nazi torturers and murderers. They are still being hunted down apparently.

by smegel 13y ago

ramblerman 13y ago
It is an interesting comparison. I wonder if it's because of the sheer numbers that died in the camps or the power of the jewish lobby post world war II.
- znowi 13y ago
  > I wonder if it's because of the sheer numbers that died in the camps or the power of the jewish lobby post world war II. I think it's both, though the Jewish community has indeed been very vocal in popularizing the Nazi atrocities and establishing the term "Holocaust" to mean specifically the genocide of Jews in WW2. It is a crime to deny it in many countries. It may seem as if the Jews were the focal point of the Nazi Aryan doctrine, however, the other sub-humans on the bottom of the racial ladder were the Slavic people and people of color. Russian death toll in the WW2 was more than 20 million people. Although, I never heard of the "Russian Holocaust".
  - lsh 13y ago
    > were the Slavic people and people of color. ... and the artists, and the gays and the communists and the ...
    - sanoli 13y ago
      ...gypsies. About one quarter of them died in WWII. But hey, who gives a crap about gypsies? To this day, nobody seems to give a dammn. "It is not known precisely how many Roma were killed in the Holocaust. While exact figures or percentages cannot be ascertained, historians estimate that the Germans and their allies killed around 25 percent of all European Roma." Source: http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005219 http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005219
  - laichzeit0 13y ago
    >It is a crime to deny it in many countries. This somewhat pisses on my battery. It makes me generally less sympathetic. Imagine if it was a "crime" to deny evolution. Even though I don't get the fundamentalist nut jobs and their creationist bullshit, it's absolutely unnecessary to make debate on a subject a "crime". It coveys a sense of weakness and bigotry.
bambax 13y ago
It seems most of them don't show any kind of remorse and instead insist they had been doing the right thing all along. For example, Erich Priebke, who died last year, aged 100, always declared he was only "obeying orders" in setting up the massacre of 335 people (including children). Not only that, but his own son has always defended him and his actions. This kind of attitude doesn't help much with forgiveness. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Priebke http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Priebke
- ItendToDisagree 13y ago
  Not defending Erich in any way, but the "obeying orders" excuse has been used by US Soldiers in Iraq (among other stories regarding previous wars in history and involving other countries' soldiers). Do you think they should be executed? The Nazi's were one of the first instances of prosecution for soldiers who were following orders when committing war crimes (in the case of concentration camps the scale may be the marker) so it is an interesting question. Seriously asking and not trying to be inflammatory. It is seriously just an interesting concern of where "following orders" stops being a valid excuse. For instance should drone operators controlling, attacks that kill a whole wedding convoy, be prosecuted for following orders? Weird world we live in. Again not defending Erich Priebke just a jumping off point for interesting discussion. Edit: Fix spelling
  - bambax 13y ago
    > Do you think they should be executed? Yes. Not "executed", and not every soldier in every war; but torturers who hide behind orders should absolutely be brought to justice. Of course, if their country as a whole decides torture is suddenly ok, or even cool (see most recent TV shows), then that won't happen. The fact that it won't happen in the case of the US doesn't excuse the Nazis... or anyone, really.
    - ItendToDisagree 13y ago
      I tend to agree. I really think there are two metrics. Genuine remorse and the ability to concede that the actions were wrong or misguided. I find it dismaying that currently our culture (most of the world, not just US) seems to have gone backwards in terms of recognizing torture/misguided killing/execution as a serious issue. There really is no excuse for such behavior, although happens in times of conflict, it should be accounted for at some point. The ability of a country or people to recognize the wrongs of their past and move forward, rather than denying that they were wrong, seems an important thing.
S4M 13y ago
Don't forget that Nagase was "just" a translator.
- sitkack 13y ago
  Translates pain into prose.

We dont seem to be so generous to Nazi torturers and murderers. They are still being hunted down apparently.

by smegel 13y ago

We dont seem to be so generous to Nazi torturers and murderers. They are still being hunted down apparently.

It is an interesting comparison. I wonder if it's because of the sheer numbers that died in the camps or the power of the jewish lobby post world war II.

znowi 13y ago
> I wonder if it's because of the sheer numbers that died in the camps or the power of the jewish lobby post world war II. I think it's both, though the Jewish community has indeed been very vocal in popularizing the Nazi atrocities and establishing the term "Holocaust" to mean specifically the genocide of Jews in WW2. It is a crime to deny it in many countries. It may seem as if the Jews were the focal point of the Nazi Aryan doctrine, however, the other sub-humans on the bottom of the racial ladder were the Slavic people and people of color. Russian death toll in the WW2 was more than 20 million people. Although, I never heard of the "Russian Holocaust".
- lsh 13y ago
  > were the Slavic people and people of color. ... and the artists, and the gays and the communists and the ...
  - sanoli 13y ago
    ...gypsies. About one quarter of them died in WWII. But hey, who gives a crap about gypsies? To this day, nobody seems to give a dammn. "It is not known precisely how many Roma were killed in the Holocaust. While exact figures or percentages cannot be ascertained, historians estimate that the Germans and their allies killed around 25 percent of all European Roma." Source: http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005219 http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005219
- laichzeit0 13y ago
  >It is a crime to deny it in many countries. This somewhat pisses on my battery. It makes me generally less sympathetic. Imagine if it was a "crime" to deny evolution. Even though I don't get the fundamentalist nut jobs and their creationist bullshit, it's absolutely unnecessary to make debate on a subject a "crime". It coveys a sense of weakness and bigotry.

bambax 13y ago

It seems most of them don't show any kind of remorse and instead insist they had been doing the right thing all along. For example, Erich Priebke, who died last year, aged 100, always declared he was only "obeying orders" in setting up the massacre of 335 people (including children). Not only that, but his own son has always defended him and his actions. This kind of attitude doesn't help much with forgiveness. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Priebke http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Priebke

ItendToDisagree 13y ago
Not defending Erich in any way, but the "obeying orders" excuse has been used by US Soldiers in Iraq (among other stories regarding previous wars in history and involving other countries' soldiers). Do you think they should be executed? The Nazi's were one of the first instances of prosecution for soldiers who were following orders when committing war crimes (in the case of concentration camps the scale may be the marker) so it is an interesting question. Seriously asking and not trying to be inflammatory. It is seriously just an interesting concern of where "following orders" stops being a valid excuse. For instance should drone operators controlling, attacks that kill a whole wedding convoy, be prosecuted for following orders? Weird world we live in. Again not defending Erich Priebke just a jumping off point for interesting discussion. Edit: Fix spelling
- bambax 13y ago
  > Do you think they should be executed? Yes. Not "executed", and not every soldier in every war; but torturers who hide behind orders should absolutely be brought to justice. Of course, if their country as a whole decides torture is suddenly ok, or even cool (see most recent TV shows), then that won't happen. The fact that it won't happen in the case of the US doesn't excuse the Nazis... or anyone, really.
  - ItendToDisagree 13y ago
    I tend to agree. I really think there are two metrics. Genuine remorse and the ability to concede that the actions were wrong or misguided. I find it dismaying that currently our culture (most of the world, not just US) seems to have gone backwards in terms of recognizing torture/misguided killing/execution as a serious issue. There really is no excuse for such behavior, although happens in times of conflict, it should be accounted for at some point. The ability of a country or people to recognize the wrongs of their past and move forward, rather than denying that they were wrong, seems an important thing.

S4M 13y ago

Don't forget that Nagase was "just" a translator.

sitkack 13y ago
Translates pain into prose.