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Hey I'm a white dude and I've worked with Black Girls Code on a few workshops. Just FYI girls of any race are allowed, it's just that this particular group cate

Hey I'm a white dude and I've worked with Black Girls Code on a few workshops. Just FYI girls of any race are allowed, it's just that this particular group caters primarily to black girls. I'd say from the outside looking in it is a thorny subject, but in my observance BGC are good people who care about their community and are giving back to it through the knowledge and resources they've accrued.

pbhjpbhj 13y ago
Thanks for your comment and your work - beta is one of the tools being used at BGC isn't it¹. More power to your arm! [or firings to your synapses or whatever]. >my observance BGC are good people who care about their community It's such a shame then that they promote themselves as only caring for the part of their community that has a particular colour of skin. ¹ - http://betathegame.com/ http://betathegame.com/
- jessedhillon 13y ago
  Until you've been a victim of the kind of systemic racism they are trying to reverse, maybe consider that you know nothing about how such efforts should market themselves?
- SamBoogie 13y ago
  Thanks, I guess? I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic it's hard to tell online. Just so you know I am not trying to argue with you, just sharing my experience with BGC. You are correct that Beta is a tool being used at BGC, and we collaborate with other organizations listed by mikeleeorg. I understand what you are saying however it's my opinion that any community (racial, ethnic, religious etc) that is attempting to impart knowledge is doing a good thing. Particularly when that knowledge is important and beneficial to the future, as I believe programming is.
- wpietri 13y ago
  It's such a shame then that they promote themselves as only caring for the part of their community that has a particular colour of skin. I honestly can't tell if you're trolling here. In case you aren't: that is not what they are doing, and it also isn't a shame. Helping out people who are historically disadvantaged and face current discrimination is nothing to be ashamed about. The goal is to level the playing field. As a white guy, I got plenty of people helping me out for no good reason: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/ http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-th... And I am not the only one who has noticed this. E.g.: http://pgbovine.net/tech-privilege.htm http://pgbovine.net/tech-privilege.htm As somebody who financially supports BGC and aims to mentor at some of their workshops, I think they're doing great stuff.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - apricot7 13y ago
    > And I am not the only one who has noticed this. E.g.: http://pgbovine.net/tech-privilege.htm http://pgbovine.net/tech-privilege.htm That's really poor piece. I don't want to waste too much time with this, but the author really needs to reflect upon what he's saying. He listed his unearned privileges. Let's think about each one. > [T]hroughout college, nobody ever said to me: > > > “Well, you only got into MIT because you're an Asian boy.” Wow. Come on, man. Yes, he better have that "privilege". He earned it! MIT's standards for him (as an Asian male) were far more challenging than the standards for any other demographic. He had to be far more competent than everyone else. For anyone to claim that he was advantaged for being Asian would be simply outrageous. Why do we need to fix that fact that his hard work was properly recognized? Why is that unjust? And why doesn't the author realize that holding people to lower standards for having a vagina, or for belonging to a certain race, or for having a certain sexual orientation, etc., will justifiably result in others prejudging members of those demographics as being less competent until proven otherwise? He goes on: > (while struggling with a problem set) “Well, not everyone is cut out for Computer Science; have you considered majoring in bio?” Come on, man. Boys hear that all the time. In fact, a couple of white boys who weren't doing well in my computer science class were told, "If you're not having fun in this class, there are plenty of other challenging classes you can take." What boys don't experience, however is people saying, "Hey, let me jump out of my seat to help you with your problem, because you have breasts and a vagina." People are always quick to rush to the aid of a struggling girl or woman, while boys are generally left to fend for themselves. Then: > (after being assigned to a class project team) “How about you just design the graphics while we handle the backend? It'll be easier for everyone that way.” Males are told this all the time, every day. And in the workplace, if a man disagrees with his assignment, it's his responsibility as a grown-up to say something about it. If the author wants to give women grown-up rights, they need to be given grown-up responsibilities, too. And if the author is lamenting that women are presently prejudged as being less competent, then he's probably right. And it's his fault. When women don't have to be as good to qualify for a position, it's safe to assume that they are indeed less competent, until proven otherwise. Finally: > “Are you sure you know how to do this?” Males are called out for incompetency all the time. If the author feels that Asian males are too often given the benefit of the doubt, then he should be campaigning to lower the higher standards to which they are held. > For every white or Asian male expert programmer you know, imagine a parallel universe where they were of another ethnicity and/or gender but had the exact same initial interest and aptitude levels. Would they still have been willing to devote the over ten thousand hours of deliberate practice to achieve mastery in the face of dozens or hundreds of instances of implicit discouragement they will inevitably encounter over the years? Yes, they would. We know this for a fact, because they encountered tons of discouragement along the way. Until very recently, programming wasn't fashionable. It wasn't trendy. It wasn't even particularly lucrative (which is why feminists have only now turned their eyes toward the field, demanding that women be given free passes). Uncool outcasts were programmers. Nerds were programmers. And within programming communities, people were brutally honest with each other. However, brutal honesty isn't an issue to the author if the recipient of the honesty is a white European with a penis. For example, When Linus publicly trashes a white European for his perceived incompetency, there is no feminist outcry. Everyone laughs a bit and says, "He's so direct!". Whenever a woman is trashed, however, it's time for action."How dare he?! This is why there women don't want to be in tech!" The author wants to handle certain demographics with kid gloves while simultaneously scolding everyone for noticing that they are handled with kid gloves. No thank you. If we want to get more people into programming, great! Let's ensure that everyone on the outside has a fair chance. But let's not force certain demographics to be held to higher standards. Let's help everyone reach the same standards.

pbhjpbhj 13y ago

Thanks for your comment and your work - beta is one of the tools being used at BGC isn't it¹. More power to your arm! [or firings to your synapses or whatever]. >my observance BGC are good people who care about their community It's such a shame then that they promote themselves as only caring for the part of their community that has a particular colour of skin. ¹ - http://betathegame.com/ http://betathegame.com/

jessedhillon 13y ago
Until you've been a victim of the kind of systemic racism they are trying to reverse, maybe consider that you know nothing about how such efforts should market themselves?
SamBoogie 13y ago
Thanks, I guess? I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic it's hard to tell online. Just so you know I am not trying to argue with you, just sharing my experience with BGC. You are correct that Beta is a tool being used at BGC, and we collaborate with other organizations listed by mikeleeorg. I understand what you are saying however it's my opinion that any community (racial, ethnic, religious etc) that is attempting to impart knowledge is doing a good thing. Particularly when that knowledge is important and beneficial to the future, as I believe programming is.
wpietri 13y ago
It's such a shame then that they promote themselves as only caring for the part of their community that has a particular colour of skin. I honestly can't tell if you're trolling here. In case you aren't: that is not what they are doing, and it also isn't a shame. Helping out people who are historically disadvantaged and face current discrimination is nothing to be ashamed about. The goal is to level the playing field. As a white guy, I got plenty of people helping me out for no good reason: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/ http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-th... And I am not the only one who has noticed this. E.g.: http://pgbovine.net/tech-privilege.htm http://pgbovine.net/tech-privilege.htm As somebody who financially supports BGC and aims to mentor at some of their workshops, I think they're doing great stuff.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- apricot7 13y ago
  > And I am not the only one who has noticed this. E.g.: http://pgbovine.net/tech-privilege.htm http://pgbovine.net/tech-privilege.htm That's really poor piece. I don't want to waste too much time with this, but the author really needs to reflect upon what he's saying. He listed his unearned privileges. Let's think about each one. > [T]hroughout college, nobody ever said to me: > > > “Well, you only got into MIT because you're an Asian boy.” Wow. Come on, man. Yes, he better have that "privilege". He earned it! MIT's standards for him (as an Asian male) were far more challenging than the standards for any other demographic. He had to be far more competent than everyone else. For anyone to claim that he was advantaged for being Asian would be simply outrageous. Why do we need to fix that fact that his hard work was properly recognized? Why is that unjust? And why doesn't the author realize that holding people to lower standards for having a vagina, or for belonging to a certain race, or for having a certain sexual orientation, etc., will justifiably result in others prejudging members of those demographics as being less competent until proven otherwise? He goes on: > (while struggling with a problem set) “Well, not everyone is cut out for Computer Science; have you considered majoring in bio?” Come on, man. Boys hear that all the time. In fact, a couple of white boys who weren't doing well in my computer science class were told, "If you're not having fun in this class, there are plenty of other challenging classes you can take." What boys don't experience, however is people saying, "Hey, let me jump out of my seat to help you with your problem, because you have breasts and a vagina." People are always quick to rush to the aid of a struggling girl or woman, while boys are generally left to fend for themselves. Then: > (after being assigned to a class project team) “How about you just design the graphics while we handle the backend? It'll be easier for everyone that way.” Males are told this all the time, every day. And in the workplace, if a man disagrees with his assignment, it's his responsibility as a grown-up to say something about it. If the author wants to give women grown-up rights, they need to be given grown-up responsibilities, too. And if the author is lamenting that women are presently prejudged as being less competent, then he's probably right. And it's his fault. When women don't have to be as good to qualify for a position, it's safe to assume that they are indeed less competent, until proven otherwise. Finally: > “Are you sure you know how to do this?” Males are called out for incompetency all the time. If the author feels that Asian males are too often given the benefit of the doubt, then he should be campaigning to lower the higher standards to which they are held. > For every white or Asian male expert programmer you know, imagine a parallel universe where they were of another ethnicity and/or gender but had the exact same initial interest and aptitude levels. Would they still have been willing to devote the over ten thousand hours of deliberate practice to achieve mastery in the face of dozens or hundreds of instances of implicit discouragement they will inevitably encounter over the years? Yes, they would. We know this for a fact, because they encountered tons of discouragement along the way. Until very recently, programming wasn't fashionable. It wasn't trendy. It wasn't even particularly lucrative (which is why feminists have only now turned their eyes toward the field, demanding that women be given free passes). Uncool outcasts were programmers. Nerds were programmers. And within programming communities, people were brutally honest with each other. However, brutal honesty isn't an issue to the author if the recipient of the honesty is a white European with a penis. For example, When Linus publicly trashes a white European for his perceived incompetency, there is no feminist outcry. Everyone laughs a bit and says, "He's so direct!". Whenever a woman is trashed, however, it's time for action."How dare he?! This is why there women don't want to be in tech!" The author wants to handle certain demographics with kid gloves while simultaneously scolding everyone for noticing that they are handled with kid gloves. No thank you. If we want to get more people into programming, great! Let's ensure that everyone on the outside has a fair chance. But let's not force certain demographics to be held to higher standards. Let's help everyone reach the same standards.