6 ms·

If it sounds unlikely, then there's probably more to the story. We don't know what happened between them that caused a judge to believe the order to be necessa

If it sounds unlikely, then there's probably more to the story. We don't know what happened between them that caused a judge to believe the order to be necessary, but I presume that such orders are not given lightly.

dredmorbius 13y ago
You presume incorrectly in the case of a temporary restraining order. These can be and are granted without a hearing from the restrained party: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Temporary+Restraining+Order http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Temporary+Rest... http://www.walnut-creek.org/citygov/depts/police/faqs/violence.asp http://www.walnut-creek.org/citygov/depts/police/faqs/violen...
tluyben2 13y ago
Well I presume that as well; I hope someone here has experience with that and can tell how hard it is? Because I just had that 'wow!' experience ; it feels like they hand them out at the police station to anyone asking :) I know they are not, but some 'actual', non media enlarged information would be great!
- ZoFreX 13y ago
  I'm confused as to why you are under the impression that restraining orders are 'normal', or that they hand them out to anyone asking, based on a single data point of one person getting one restraining order?
  - peterjancelis 13y ago
    He probably thinks so because of other comments above.
  - chillingeffect 13y ago
    There are 2 to 3 million of them handed out each year [1]. If not "normal," that's certainly _common_. There is no proof or evidence required to issue one. The judge only reads a description of events. It is not required for the restrained party to be there to defend or present counter-evidence. It's simply a 5-10 minute meeting between a judge and a person who alleges "fear" or "emotional harm." Exact laws vary from state to state. They are free to file and cost 5-10 thousand dollars to appeal. [1] http://www.dailyfinance.com/2010/03/30/the-high-price-of-restraining-orders/ http://www.dailyfinance.com/2010/03/30/the-high-price-of-res...
    - einhverfr 13y ago
      Right you are talking about a temporary restraining orders, right? For a full fledged restraining order there is at least supposed to be a showing of evidence and an opportunity to rebut the evidence on the part of the other party, right? The article you link to seems to lump these together with no real discussion of the process. The idea behind a lax standard for TRO's is that if there is danger, the court should temporarily try to mitigate it, pending further process.
    - hyperpape 13y ago
      The 2-3 million figure is based on an _estimate_ by http://www.mediaradar.org/ http://www.mediaradar.org/ and http://www.acfc.org/ http://www.acfc.org/, which are not neutral sources (though this does not mean that they are wrong). The one clear piece of evidence cited is ~38,000 orders for Pennsylvania, which comprises 4% of the US population. Edit: My initial comment understated the issue. Media Radar states that women are twice as likely to engage in unidirectional (unreciprocated) violence towards their partners are men. While domestic violence against men is real and subject to a lot of shame and silence, this estimate seems insane: I have previously seen figures like 10% of domestic violence stemming from women.
  - tluyben2 13y ago
    That was my whole reason for asking; they seem common because of the media. Now that I see other comments here it seems really easy to get them which seems like something open to abuse. I am just surprised because they are so uncommon here.
- einhverfr 13y ago
  IIRC the process is something like this (disclaimer, this is secondhand from listening to lawyers and I have no experience with the process): 1. Alleged victim goes to judge, gets temporary restraining order on essentially no evidence. This is supposed to be a stop-gap while further process is going on. 2. Alleged perpetrator is notified and a court date set to discuss whether the restraining order is appropriate. Temporary restraining orders really require nothing more than an allegation to get. The idea is that if the situation is life-threatening, you don't want to wait for evidence, but they are also supposed to be temporary. Longer-term restraining orders are supposed to require evidence and an actual adversarial process. The article does not say what sort of restraining order was at issue.
  - cdash 13y ago
    If the situation is life-threatening, how would a restraining order prevent it?
    - king_jester 13y ago
      In some places, restraining orders can be a barrier to things like purchasing a gun. But generally speaking, restraining orders alone aren't enough to prevent life-threatening situations.
      - einhverfr 13y ago
        Are there any jurisdictions where it is a barrier to, say, purchasing a knife? I doubt it. Again, if I thought my life was in danger, a restraining order would not be sought.
    - sophacles 13y ago
      Generally (yes there are cases of abuse-of-the-system) these temporary restraining orders are the result of domestic violence situations. The abuser is given a restraining order, and in conjunction the police provide some extra level of protection if it is a case of "(s)he may come back". It is a legal way of allowing the police to diffuse a situation before it gets worse - because there would otherwise be no good way to stop an offender from doing it again until an assault is in progress. It's a relatively effective way of the legal system saying "look, you got us involved, now we are requiring you to take a few days to calm down, and we'll deal with it after cooler heads are present". A full restraining order is different.
- a3n 13y ago
  Probably varies from state to state. I once had a temporary restraining order served on someone based on nothing but my say so. I went to a judge with my lawyer, and the other party wasn't there and knew nothing about it until they were served. To an outside observer it probably looked pretty mundane, but inside the little circle of conflict there were real dangers and the judge went with caution.
yummyfajitas 13y ago
They are given lightly. For example, a woman in Santa Fe got a restraining order after a "breakup" with David Letterman. He was ordered to stop communicating with her via code words on his show. Kelsey Grammar was also involved somehow. http://www.volokh.com/files/lettermanapp.pdf http://www.volokh.com/files/lettermanapp.pdf http://www.volokh.com/files/lettermantro.pdf http://www.volokh.com/files/lettermantro.pdf (It was later overturned on the grounds that the Santa Fe court didn't have jurisdiction over mind control transmitted from NY.)
- GFischer 13y ago
  Wow. Thanks for sharing those links. How bizarre.
- atmosx 13y ago
  These kind of things enhance faith in the judicial system... Seriously? Through code words ????
- aestra 13y ago
  They are also not given when they should be. http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/alissa-blanton-stalker-kills-florida-newlywed-hooters-waitress/story?id=9801964 http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/alissa-blanton-stalker-kills-flori... EDIT: She was actually looking for an order of protection, my mistake
patio11 13y ago
Assume that a restraining order represents someone's strongly held desire to get a restraining order. That's the limiting factor. It's much closer to "X was sued" (Y filed some paperwork) than "X was found guilty of a criminal offense."

dredmorbius 13y ago

You presume incorrectly in the case of a temporary restraining order. These can be and are granted without a hearing from the restrained party: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Temporary+Restraining+Order http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Temporary+Rest... http://www.walnut-creek.org/citygov/depts/police/faqs/violence.asp http://www.walnut-creek.org/citygov/depts/police/faqs/violen...

tluyben2 13y ago

Well I presume that as well; I hope someone here has experience with that and can tell how hard it is? Because I just had that 'wow!' experience ; it feels like they hand them out at the police station to anyone asking :) I know they are not, but some 'actual', non media enlarged information would be great!

ZoFreX 13y ago
I'm confused as to why you are under the impression that restraining orders are 'normal', or that they hand them out to anyone asking, based on a single data point of one person getting one restraining order?
- peterjancelis 13y ago
  He probably thinks so because of other comments above.
- chillingeffect 13y ago
  There are 2 to 3 million of them handed out each year [1]. If not "normal," that's certainly _common_. There is no proof or evidence required to issue one. The judge only reads a description of events. It is not required for the restrained party to be there to defend or present counter-evidence. It's simply a 5-10 minute meeting between a judge and a person who alleges "fear" or "emotional harm." Exact laws vary from state to state. They are free to file and cost 5-10 thousand dollars to appeal. [1] http://www.dailyfinance.com/2010/03/30/the-high-price-of-restraining-orders/ http://www.dailyfinance.com/2010/03/30/the-high-price-of-res...
  - einhverfr 13y ago
    Right you are talking about a temporary restraining orders, right? For a full fledged restraining order there is at least supposed to be a showing of evidence and an opportunity to rebut the evidence on the part of the other party, right? The article you link to seems to lump these together with no real discussion of the process. The idea behind a lax standard for TRO's is that if there is danger, the court should temporarily try to mitigate it, pending further process.
  - hyperpape 13y ago
    The 2-3 million figure is based on an _estimate_ by http://www.mediaradar.org/ http://www.mediaradar.org/ and http://www.acfc.org/ http://www.acfc.org/, which are not neutral sources (though this does not mean that they are wrong). The one clear piece of evidence cited is ~38,000 orders for Pennsylvania, which comprises 4% of the US population. Edit: My initial comment understated the issue. Media Radar states that women are twice as likely to engage in unidirectional (unreciprocated) violence towards their partners are men. While domestic violence against men is real and subject to a lot of shame and silence, this estimate seems insane: I have previously seen figures like 10% of domestic violence stemming from women.
- tluyben2 13y ago
  That was my whole reason for asking; they seem common because of the media. Now that I see other comments here it seems really easy to get them which seems like something open to abuse. I am just surprised because they are so uncommon here.
einhverfr 13y ago
IIRC the process is something like this (disclaimer, this is secondhand from listening to lawyers and I have no experience with the process): 1. Alleged victim goes to judge, gets temporary restraining order on essentially no evidence. This is supposed to be a stop-gap while further process is going on. 2. Alleged perpetrator is notified and a court date set to discuss whether the restraining order is appropriate. Temporary restraining orders really require nothing more than an allegation to get. The idea is that if the situation is life-threatening, you don't want to wait for evidence, but they are also supposed to be temporary. Longer-term restraining orders are supposed to require evidence and an actual adversarial process. The article does not say what sort of restraining order was at issue.
- cdash 13y ago
  If the situation is life-threatening, how would a restraining order prevent it?
  - king_jester 13y ago
    In some places, restraining orders can be a barrier to things like purchasing a gun. But generally speaking, restraining orders alone aren't enough to prevent life-threatening situations.
    - einhverfr 13y ago
      Are there any jurisdictions where it is a barrier to, say, purchasing a knife? I doubt it. Again, if I thought my life was in danger, a restraining order would not be sought.
  - sophacles 13y ago
    Generally (yes there are cases of abuse-of-the-system) these temporary restraining orders are the result of domestic violence situations. The abuser is given a restraining order, and in conjunction the police provide some extra level of protection if it is a case of "(s)he may come back". It is a legal way of allowing the police to diffuse a situation before it gets worse - because there would otherwise be no good way to stop an offender from doing it again until an assault is in progress. It's a relatively effective way of the legal system saying "look, you got us involved, now we are requiring you to take a few days to calm down, and we'll deal with it after cooler heads are present". A full restraining order is different.
a3n 13y ago
Probably varies from state to state. I once had a temporary restraining order served on someone based on nothing but my say so. I went to a judge with my lawyer, and the other party wasn't there and knew nothing about it until they were served. To an outside observer it probably looked pretty mundane, but inside the little circle of conflict there were real dangers and the judge went with caution.

yummyfajitas 13y ago

They are given lightly. For example, a woman in Santa Fe got a restraining order after a "breakup" with David Letterman. He was ordered to stop communicating with her via code words on his show. Kelsey Grammar was also involved somehow. http://www.volokh.com/files/lettermanapp.pdf http://www.volokh.com/files/lettermanapp.pdf http://www.volokh.com/files/lettermantro.pdf http://www.volokh.com/files/lettermantro.pdf (It was later overturned on the grounds that the Santa Fe court didn't have jurisdiction over mind control transmitted from NY.)

GFischer 13y ago
Wow. Thanks for sharing those links. How bizarre.
atmosx 13y ago
These kind of things enhance faith in the judicial system... Seriously? Through code words ????
aestra 13y ago
They are also not given when they should be. http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/alissa-blanton-stalker-kills-florida-newlywed-hooters-waitress/story?id=9801964 http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/alissa-blanton-stalker-kills-flori... EDIT: She was actually looking for an order of protection, my mistake

patio11 13y ago

Assume that a restraining order represents someone's strongly held desire to get a restraining order. That's the limiting factor. It's much closer to "X was sued" (Y filed some paperwork) than "X was found guilty of a criminal offense."