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I really think all coffee shops should start charging people for loitering long after they have finish their coffee. I live in Toronto and I can't remember whe

I really think all coffee shops should start charging people for loitering long after they have finish their coffee. I live in Toronto and I can't remember when was the last time my wife and I were able to enjoy a latte while sitting at a Starbucks or Timothys. Nowadays, it seems all coffee shops are overrun with kids doing their homework or whatever. The worst part is that the laptop/tablet people barely make eye contact with others; they are so engrossed in their screen ! Thankfully,we found a smaller coffee shop which does not offer Wifi and where the owners discourage loitering / homeworks.

thirdtruck 13y ago
I'd gladly pay for guaranteed work-space on an hourly basis and get complimentary coffee, more so than the inverse.
- manishsharan 13y ago
  Coffee shops like Starbucks or Timothys are were not meant to be a work space . What bugs me is that coffee-shops used to play an important role in the community. Its where you went to dish the dirt, catch up with the neighborhood. It was like a bar for socializing without the alcohol . Now coffee shops are being overrun with laptop/tablet people working remotely seeking a work space. These people occupy spaces fo r long periods shutting out regular coffee-drinkers and without contributing any conversation or even a hello to the community. Any development that lures these people away from my Starbucks is OK in my book. edit : some typos.
  - _delirium 13y ago
    There are a handful of coffee shops that actively don't want to be used by laptop/tablet users, and one way they signal that is by not offering wifi. It's not quite as effective a deterrent as it used to be with the advent of cheapish mobile data plans that have tethering, but it can give you an indication of what the shop expects its usage to be. Fins Coffee in Santa Cruz, CA is an example of a shop without wifi. Given how heavily Starbucks not only offers but advertises its free Wifi (as does McDonald's), my guess is that they do actually intend their stores to attract laptop/tablet users.
    - pizza 13y ago
      Funny you should mention Santa Cruz, as I've also noticed there's a variety of styles of coffee shop in the area. There's Verve downtown, where low table-density in a big room with a high ceiling creates islands where patrons can isolate themselves from one another. I'm guessing this makes it a place where (mostly young?) people can be productive on their devices. Then there's a place like Lulu's (right across the street!), that's more cramped and has a more traditional/low-light ambiance, where it's basically impossible to ignore the people around you (I hope I don't make it sound like that's a bad thing).
      - _delirium 13y ago
        Yeah, I used to live there, and I think it might be my favorite coffee-shop town. Lots of places and variety, especially considering the modest population. My own favorite one is probably Mr. Toots in Capitola (2nd story, & has a small balcony with ocean view).
    - jlees 13y ago
      For folks who are away from home, or otherwise on the road with a laptop, Starbucks is invaluable. There's a guarantee of transactional access to wifi, even though the quality of the wifi varies by location, and the only risk is finding a seat. I dislike hogging the tables at coffee shops near my house to work, but do so occasionally to help myself think -- but when I'm away from home I find Starbucks a very useful place to go and I'm not always near a local library or other alternative.
  - icebraining 13y ago
    Seems funny to blame it on kids when you clearly have a undersupply of coffee shops. Personally, I never feel guilty about using my laptop - if the cofee shop is somewhat full, I just walk five feet to the next one.
  - tekalon 13y ago
    I thought that type of place only happened in tv/movies.
  - stan_rogers 13y ago
    I actually miss the "bar" at Tim Horton's, where you could once find conversation without having to bring your own friends with you. You could always retire to the tables if you had a family or group, but the bar was like dropping into the local pub for general socializing (without the slow slide into stupidity). As a young, frequently-moved fellow in the military, it was a great way to find some community outside of the "mob".
eigenvector 13y ago
When I was at U of T, I used to blame all the coffee shops being filled with students on the university not providing adequate work/study space for its 44,000 students (a few of my friends got banned from a nearby Second Cup after using a booth at the back to solder circuit boards for a design project). After graduating I moved to the suburbs, where Starbucks is rammed with high school students doing homework but the public library across the street is empty despite having more comfortable seating, faster Wi-Fi and you know, actually being intended as an open public space for quiet reading and study.
- bunderbunder 13y ago
  Does the library sell good coffee and tea which you're allowed to take to the workspaces, and have pleasant lighting? My old college's library would allow you to bring in beverages in containers that have tight-fitting lids, and was well-lit and comfortable. It was also jammed with students in there studying at all hours. The university I live near now allows zero food or beverages and has cheap, eye strain inducing fluorescent lighting, and it's a ghost town. The only reason I spend any time studying there is that as a non-student I'm not allowed to check out books.
  - MartinCron 13y ago
    Does the library sell good coffee and tea... Starbucks doesn't sell good coffee and tea and yet they are packed. It must be something else.
    - ams6110 13y ago
      Subjective, and goodness of coffee is not binary. Starbucks coffee is, IMO, better than what you find at most "affordable" restaurants, sandwich shops, diners, etc. If you a coffee connoisseur, it may not be good. But most people aren't, they just want something better than Folgers. There's also the McDonald's effect: it may not be great, but it's pretty much the same everywhere. You know what you are going to get before you go in.
timtadh 13y ago
The most effective way for coffee shops/cafes to discourage people working for long periods without driving that business away altogether is to not provide any outlets! A cafe I like to work at takes that approach and it seems to do well for them. Most of their customers are there for coffee/food and conversation. I am mostly an anomaly for doing work there.
agumonkey 13y ago
I think I saw a restaurant owner slashing prices if you just drop your smartphone at the counter before you sit. He was so annoyed of people not 'being' here.

thirdtruck 13y ago

I'd gladly pay for guaranteed work-space on an hourly basis and get complimentary coffee, more so than the inverse.

manishsharan 13y ago
Coffee shops like Starbucks or Timothys are were not meant to be a work space . What bugs me is that coffee-shops used to play an important role in the community. Its where you went to dish the dirt, catch up with the neighborhood. It was like a bar for socializing without the alcohol . Now coffee shops are being overrun with laptop/tablet people working remotely seeking a work space. These people occupy spaces fo r long periods shutting out regular coffee-drinkers and without contributing any conversation or even a hello to the community. Any development that lures these people away from my Starbucks is OK in my book. edit : some typos.
- _delirium 13y ago
  There are a handful of coffee shops that actively don't want to be used by laptop/tablet users, and one way they signal that is by not offering wifi. It's not quite as effective a deterrent as it used to be with the advent of cheapish mobile data plans that have tethering, but it can give you an indication of what the shop expects its usage to be. Fins Coffee in Santa Cruz, CA is an example of a shop without wifi. Given how heavily Starbucks not only offers but advertises its free Wifi (as does McDonald's), my guess is that they do actually intend their stores to attract laptop/tablet users.
  - pizza 13y ago
    Funny you should mention Santa Cruz, as I've also noticed there's a variety of styles of coffee shop in the area. There's Verve downtown, where low table-density in a big room with a high ceiling creates islands where patrons can isolate themselves from one another. I'm guessing this makes it a place where (mostly young?) people can be productive on their devices. Then there's a place like Lulu's (right across the street!), that's more cramped and has a more traditional/low-light ambiance, where it's basically impossible to ignore the people around you (I hope I don't make it sound like that's a bad thing).
    - _delirium 13y ago
      Yeah, I used to live there, and I think it might be my favorite coffee-shop town. Lots of places and variety, especially considering the modest population. My own favorite one is probably Mr. Toots in Capitola (2nd story, & has a small balcony with ocean view).
  - jlees 13y ago
    For folks who are away from home, or otherwise on the road with a laptop, Starbucks is invaluable. There's a guarantee of transactional access to wifi, even though the quality of the wifi varies by location, and the only risk is finding a seat. I dislike hogging the tables at coffee shops near my house to work, but do so occasionally to help myself think -- but when I'm away from home I find Starbucks a very useful place to go and I'm not always near a local library or other alternative.
- icebraining 13y ago
  Seems funny to blame it on kids when you clearly have a undersupply of coffee shops. Personally, I never feel guilty about using my laptop - if the cofee shop is somewhat full, I just walk five feet to the next one.
- tekalon 13y ago
  I thought that type of place only happened in tv/movies.
- stan_rogers 13y ago
  I actually miss the "bar" at Tim Horton's, where you could once find conversation without having to bring your own friends with you. You could always retire to the tables if you had a family or group, but the bar was like dropping into the local pub for general socializing (without the slow slide into stupidity). As a young, frequently-moved fellow in the military, it was a great way to find some community outside of the "mob".

eigenvector 13y ago

When I was at U of T, I used to blame all the coffee shops being filled with students on the university not providing adequate work/study space for its 44,000 students (a few of my friends got banned from a nearby Second Cup after using a booth at the back to solder circuit boards for a design project). After graduating I moved to the suburbs, where Starbucks is rammed with high school students doing homework but the public library across the street is empty despite having more comfortable seating, faster Wi-Fi and you know, actually being intended as an open public space for quiet reading and study.

bunderbunder 13y ago
Does the library sell good coffee and tea which you're allowed to take to the workspaces, and have pleasant lighting? My old college's library would allow you to bring in beverages in containers that have tight-fitting lids, and was well-lit and comfortable. It was also jammed with students in there studying at all hours. The university I live near now allows zero food or beverages and has cheap, eye strain inducing fluorescent lighting, and it's a ghost town. The only reason I spend any time studying there is that as a non-student I'm not allowed to check out books.
- MartinCron 13y ago
  Does the library sell good coffee and tea... Starbucks doesn't sell good coffee and tea and yet they are packed. It must be something else.
  - ams6110 13y ago
    Subjective, and goodness of coffee is not binary. Starbucks coffee is, IMO, better than what you find at most "affordable" restaurants, sandwich shops, diners, etc. If you a coffee connoisseur, it may not be good. But most people aren't, they just want something better than Folgers. There's also the McDonald's effect: it may not be great, but it's pretty much the same everywhere. You know what you are going to get before you go in.

timtadh 13y ago

The most effective way for coffee shops/cafes to discourage people working for long periods without driving that business away altogether is to not provide any outlets! A cafe I like to work at takes that approach and it seems to do well for them. Most of their customers are there for coffee/food and conversation. I am mostly an anomaly for doing work there.

agumonkey 13y ago

I think I saw a restaurant owner slashing prices if you just drop your smartphone at the counter before you sit. He was so annoyed of people not 'being' here.