11 ms·

France's Data Protection agency issues their maximum monetary penalty to Google

33 points by hugoroy 13y ago

junto 13y ago
€150,000 is a drop in Google's ocean. Better would be to fine any public company a percentage of their market cap or something comparative that matches the fine to the size of the company. That would provide a true penalty that discourages large multi-nationals from abusing local laws.
- Gmo 13y ago
  They did with what they had available as a tool : By law, they can't fine more than 150 000 euros ... I agree (and I'm pretty sure the CNIL agrees) it's not enough.
- greenyoda 13y ago
  In US dollars, roughly $200,000. This action probably cost the French government more in bureaucrats' salaries than it got from Google. If the fines are this small, it's pretty clear that the legislators who passed this law were not interested in creating a serious deterrent.
  - atmosx 13y ago
    It's possible that they didn't knew what they were after... Also we should not underestimate the power of stupidity, in all ranks of society.
    - JohnTHaller 13y ago
      They implemented a 'cookie directive' where websites are supposed to ask permission to set cookies. They not only didn't know what they were after, they had no idea how to get there or where they were starting.
- moomin 13y ago
  You could charge Google that a day and they wouldn't care.
- chestnut-tree 13y ago
  "€150,000 is a drop in Google's ocean" An even more useless measure against Google was made earlier last year (2013) by the Information Commissioner's Office (ICO) in the UK (a data privacy body). Google, having wrongly collected wi-fi data during its Street View activities, was asked to delete the private data it had collected. It failed to do so, prompting the ICO to give them additional days to comply with deletion but no fine. [1] Google probably have an entire department of corporate lawyers zealously protecting their interests, yet despite being instructed by an official body to delete private data, they "accidentally" retained the discs containing the additional private data. These are not the actions of a compnay that takes privacy seriously. And that is unlikely to change until official authorities sufficiently hold Google to account for their privacy transgressions. [1] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23002166 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23002166
- praptak 13y ago
  > percentage of their market cap or something comparative The income from the local market comes to mind, as this is realistically the piece of the cake that the local government has some control over.
- olivier1664 13y ago
  For me, Google loses a part of its "Don't be evil" image by being sanctioned by the CNIL. As a French, I see the CNIL as some kind of Superman of the citizens rights. When Superman fight against someone, this someone is probably evil.
- M2Ys4U 13y ago
  That's what the upcoming EU Data Protection Regulation states. I believe it's around 8% of global profits. It's cleared the European Parliament and is currently being stymied in the Council (the body made up of ministers from EU member states)
eonil 13y ago
Oh I don't know how it is a penalty.
- VladRussian2 13y ago
  it doesn't even come to close to the "cost of business".
nl 13y ago
Google's right to fight these charges. Things like the EU cookie directive are stupid laws that allow legislators to pretend to be doing something but do nothing beyond making websites less user friendly.
- twelvechairs 13y ago
  Which of the four requirements listed do you object to?
  - patrickaljord 13y ago
    All of them. This is outrageous. Nobody is forced to use Google and their privacy policy is Google to decide and their users to accept or not, no government intervention is needed. The only party that should be fined is the French government for spying on its citizens without their consent and with total disregard for the citizen privacy rights using the French version of the prism program.
    - hugoroy 13y ago
      says the guys who surely have read all the privacy policies he supposedly agreed to… right?
      - mike_hearn 13y ago
        One of the points of the new Google privacy policy was to be simple and unified, so you actually could read it. Before that there was a different policy for each service, and they were often long, which practically guaranteed nobody could read them all. CNIL doesn't even deny that the new policy was a good thing but they levied a fine anyway!
      - patrickaljord 13y ago
        So what? I chose to agree with the policy. The state doesn't have any right to get into my decision to agree willingly to a legal contract with another private party. This is just legal State racket at work, and hypocritical on top of that when the government is the only one here spying on me without my content. Screw them. This despicable government that doesn't create anything but debt and harasses people who are actually trying to work and racket innovators who actually create value instead of debt. Maybe if Google went bankrupt, they'd get some money from the state, but Google being innovating and profitable? This is unacceptable for the State and it just has to racket them and punish them for being successful. I'm disgusted by my government who by the way tonight just voted for a law that forces amazon to charge more for its books so retail can compete. Yeah, really, screw them. I don't need their "protection", I just want the State to let us be.
pessimizer 13y ago
That would be a very harsh penalty for me. I'm not sure if my dry cleaner would survive a fine like that either, but I'm not sure about their cash reserves.
coldcode 13y ago
Let them search cake is likely the response.
Nanzikambe 13y ago
Fixed fines are silly, make it a percentage of revenue or profit. Give them a real incentive to change. This sort of thing is done with speeding fines in several countries (link: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/295905?tp=1 http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/295905?tp=1)
- ronaldx 13y ago
  >Fixed fines are silly, make it a percentage of revenue or profit. Give them a real incentive to change. What do you think Google's claimed revenue/profit in France would be, in that case?
outside1234 13y ago
holy cow, that's not even 3 people's salary. who thinks that's going to be effective?
hugoroy 13y ago
Just a note: 150,000€ is indeed the maximum penaltly allowed by law for this, see http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexteArticle.do;jsessionid=6BC8BF44AE3B0026A0D3466947518B0C.tpdjo05v_3?idArticle=LEGIARTI000023784589&cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006068624&dateTexte=20140108 http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexteArticle.do;jsession...
eximius 13y ago
Frankly, I'm not sure why Google puts up with France's shit anyway. I would have thrown my hands up with that news snippet thing and simply stopped using the news snippets or listing those news sites in France. After those sites saw a massive drop in traffic, I'm sure they'd leave Google alone. For a little while, at least.
weddpros 13y ago
How much damage was caused by Google? What amount($) of damage? Did citizens complain in court? Who was hurt? Is this punishment "just in case" Google becomes Evil? In contrast, governments have a proven track record in this domain, and the french gov just passed new laws against online privacy that even the NSA wouldn't dare dream of. Guess what? People talk about Google, not about these laws.
- M2Ys4U 13y ago
  You generally don't sue to protect these rights, you complain to the data protection authority.
  - weddpros 13y ago
    Google is no evil. They don't misuse data. But they got fined. Spammers all around the world are evil. They misuse data. The CNIL should fight them. Governments are evil. They collect and misuse data. The CNIL should protect us. But the CNIL doesn't. It just wastes public money. They go after Google because it's so easy. The government needs a get-rich-fast scheme: CNIL sues Google. They're not here to make things better or protect us. They just "do their job" but they do it in the most stupid way.
lispm 13y ago
EU: next time when you make a law, allow a penalty of 150,000,000 Euro for starters. After repeated violations increase to 1,500,000,000 . Double each year. Then Google will listen.

33 points by hugoroy 13y ago

junto 13y ago

€150,000 is a drop in Google's ocean. Better would be to fine any public company a percentage of their market cap or something comparative that matches the fine to the size of the company. That would provide a true penalty that discourages large multi-nationals from abusing local laws.

Gmo 13y ago
They did with what they had available as a tool : By law, they can't fine more than 150 000 euros ... I agree (and I'm pretty sure the CNIL agrees) it's not enough.
greenyoda 13y ago
In US dollars, roughly $200,000. This action probably cost the French government more in bureaucrats' salaries than it got from Google. If the fines are this small, it's pretty clear that the legislators who passed this law were not interested in creating a serious deterrent.
- atmosx 13y ago
  It's possible that they didn't knew what they were after... Also we should not underestimate the power of stupidity, in all ranks of society.
  - JohnTHaller 13y ago
    They implemented a 'cookie directive' where websites are supposed to ask permission to set cookies. They not only didn't know what they were after, they had no idea how to get there or where they were starting.
moomin 13y ago
You could charge Google that a day and they wouldn't care.
chestnut-tree 13y ago
"€150,000 is a drop in Google's ocean" An even more useless measure against Google was made earlier last year (2013) by the Information Commissioner's Office (ICO) in the UK (a data privacy body). Google, having wrongly collected wi-fi data during its Street View activities, was asked to delete the private data it had collected. It failed to do so, prompting the ICO to give them additional days to comply with deletion but no fine. [1] Google probably have an entire department of corporate lawyers zealously protecting their interests, yet despite being instructed by an official body to delete private data, they "accidentally" retained the discs containing the additional private data. These are not the actions of a compnay that takes privacy seriously. And that is unlikely to change until official authorities sufficiently hold Google to account for their privacy transgressions. [1] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23002166 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23002166
praptak 13y ago
> percentage of their market cap or something comparative The income from the local market comes to mind, as this is realistically the piece of the cake that the local government has some control over.
olivier1664 13y ago
For me, Google loses a part of its "Don't be evil" image by being sanctioned by the CNIL. As a French, I see the CNIL as some kind of Superman of the citizens rights. When Superman fight against someone, this someone is probably evil.
M2Ys4U 13y ago
That's what the upcoming EU Data Protection Regulation states. I believe it's around 8% of global profits. It's cleared the European Parliament and is currently being stymied in the Council (the body made up of ministers from EU member states)

eonil 13y ago

Oh I don't know how it is a penalty.

VladRussian2 13y ago
it doesn't even come to close to the "cost of business".

nl 13y ago

Google's right to fight these charges. Things like the EU cookie directive are stupid laws that allow legislators to pretend to be doing something but do nothing beyond making websites less user friendly.

twelvechairs 13y ago
Which of the four requirements listed do you object to?
- patrickaljord 13y ago
  All of them. This is outrageous. Nobody is forced to use Google and their privacy policy is Google to decide and their users to accept or not, no government intervention is needed. The only party that should be fined is the French government for spying on its citizens without their consent and with total disregard for the citizen privacy rights using the French version of the prism program.
  - hugoroy 13y ago
    says the guys who surely have read all the privacy policies he supposedly agreed to… right?
    - mike_hearn 13y ago
      One of the points of the new Google privacy policy was to be simple and unified, so you actually could read it. Before that there was a different policy for each service, and they were often long, which practically guaranteed nobody could read them all. CNIL doesn't even deny that the new policy was a good thing but they levied a fine anyway!
    - patrickaljord 13y ago
      So what? I chose to agree with the policy. The state doesn't have any right to get into my decision to agree willingly to a legal contract with another private party. This is just legal State racket at work, and hypocritical on top of that when the government is the only one here spying on me without my content. Screw them. This despicable government that doesn't create anything but debt and harasses people who are actually trying to work and racket innovators who actually create value instead of debt. Maybe if Google went bankrupt, they'd get some money from the state, but Google being innovating and profitable? This is unacceptable for the State and it just has to racket them and punish them for being successful. I'm disgusted by my government who by the way tonight just voted for a law that forces amazon to charge more for its books so retail can compete. Yeah, really, screw them. I don't need their "protection", I just want the State to let us be.

pessimizer 13y ago

That would be a very harsh penalty for me. I'm not sure if my dry cleaner would survive a fine like that either, but I'm not sure about their cash reserves.

coldcode 13y ago

Let them search cake is likely the response.

Nanzikambe 13y ago

Fixed fines are silly, make it a percentage of revenue or profit. Give them a real incentive to change. This sort of thing is done with speeding fines in several countries (link: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/295905?tp=1 http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/295905?tp=1)

ronaldx 13y ago
>Fixed fines are silly, make it a percentage of revenue or profit. Give them a real incentive to change. What do you think Google's claimed revenue/profit in France would be, in that case?

outside1234 13y ago

holy cow, that's not even 3 people's salary. who thinks that's going to be effective?

hugoroy 13y ago

Just a note: 150,000€ is indeed the maximum penaltly allowed by law for this, see http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexteArticle.do;jsessionid=6BC8BF44AE3B0026A0D3466947518B0C.tpdjo05v_3?idArticle=LEGIARTI000023784589&cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006068624&dateTexte=20140108 http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexteArticle.do;jsession...

eximius 13y ago

Frankly, I'm not sure why Google puts up with France's shit anyway. I would have thrown my hands up with that news snippet thing and simply stopped using the news snippets or listing those news sites in France. After those sites saw a massive drop in traffic, I'm sure they'd leave Google alone. For a little while, at least.

weddpros 13y ago

How much damage was caused by Google? What amount($) of damage? Did citizens complain in court? Who was hurt? Is this punishment "just in case" Google becomes Evil? In contrast, governments have a proven track record in this domain, and the french gov just passed new laws against online privacy that even the NSA wouldn't dare dream of. Guess what? People talk about Google, not about these laws.

M2Ys4U 13y ago
You generally don't sue to protect these rights, you complain to the data protection authority.
- weddpros 13y ago
  Google is no evil. They don't misuse data. But they got fined. Spammers all around the world are evil. They misuse data. The CNIL should fight them. Governments are evil. They collect and misuse data. The CNIL should protect us. But the CNIL doesn't. It just wastes public money. They go after Google because it's so easy. The government needs a get-rich-fast scheme: CNIL sues Google. They're not here to make things better or protect us. They just "do their job" but they do it in the most stupid way.

lispm 13y ago

EU: next time when you make a law, allow a penalty of 150,000,000 Euro for starters. After repeated violations increase to 1,500,000,000 . Double each year. Then Google will listen.