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Real conversation happened to me in an ice cream shop with a home-brewed facebook captive portal in Cambridge, MA. me: Excuse me, is there a way to log into th

• joeblau 13y ago
  The clerk must not be familiar with Facebook's "Real Name" policy. I think that asking a store clerk is probably never going to get you anywhere though. They are the least likely people to be involved with technical decisions. That's something that would be better taken up with the business owner. What's sad is that the business owner would probably be willing to sacrifice your business for the perceived benefit that he/she is getting from Facebook's WiFi.
  • mononcqc 13y ago
    The irony is rather that the excuse they provide is that they want to verify people's identity to prevent abuse, but then openly recommend using a fake identity to log on.
    • sean-duffy 13y ago
      The person in charge wanted to verify people's identities. The store clerk just wants to deal with the customer, his recommendation does not necessarily reflect the opinions of his employer.
    • pbhjpbhj 13y ago
      The shop management request a FB identifier as this reduces abuse of their wifi. If that didn't work they probably wouldn't use it - it's basically a way to require work of those who want to log on anonymously, probably enough work that it's easier to just go elsewhere. The shop staff suggested using a faked ID - but they didn't suggest that this should still be the persons only ID for Facebook. That was their solution as an individual. They're not even particularly contrary as practical solutions go - the first policy is presented to the public, it works to reduce wifi abuse. The second "policy" is not presented and works to try and avoid confrontations.
    • interpol_p 13y ago
      But the thing is authenticating through Facebook probably does verify the vast majority of their customers' identities. Even if they put big signs out the front of their shop saying : "You can make a fake account and use our WiFi if you care about your privacy." Most people would not go through the trouble of making a fake account and just login with their real account. The fact that the clerk was in conversation with this guy probably put him in the "non troublemaker" category in the clerk's mind anyway. And thus the whole identity verification thing was irrelevant, he was just suggesting a practical solution to the customer's problem.
• herge 13y ago
  I'm sure your point utterly convinced the clerk being paid minimum wage at your ice cream shop of the errors of his employer. Would you have accepted it if the clerk explained to you that requiring a Facebook account is the most hassle-free way that ice cream shop has found, considering a) their technical expertise, b) the amount of time and money they need to invest and c) their average customer?
  • TeMPOraL 13y ago
    This is one of the things that really saddens me about the world we live in - we can't have nice things, because everything is being optimized for the average use case, and average people just don't care much about anything, especially quality.
    • tedivm 13y ago
      Oh man, you mean we have to rely on 4G LTE connections instead of using the free wifi provided for us? My email may be marginally slower- I don't think I'll ever be able to enjoy ice cream again :-(
    • blueskin_ 13y ago
      It's not even for the average, because too many people are far too stupid for that and things suddenly have to be 'for everyone'. Someone with a 100 IQ and a modicum of common sense can deal with such things as an options menu, despite what google/apple/increasingly MS think.
      • pydave 13y ago
        > Someone with a 100 IQ and a modicum of common sense can deal with such things as an options menu It depends on previous context. Myself and another career programmer couldn't figure out how to print a wikimedia image on my uncle's Surface RT. (We tried several different apps and looked for context menus in each one to provide a print option.) As far as we could tell, it couldn't be done without dropping to the desktop. My computer-illiterate uncle showed us that you can just pick print from the devices menu in the charms. (Apparently, the Charms is a hybrid system menu and app context menu.) I didn't have any context for how Win8 works. He did. Then again, I don't know how long it took him to figure it out and whether we would have figured it out eventually. Despite my bad experience, I'd rather see radical changes in UI instead of sticking with what "works". It only works because we're used to it. Win8 might not be a step in the right direction, but it's might lead to improvements.
• rattray 13y ago
  Why not make a fake Facebook account? I imagine it could be useful in a number of other similar situations. (This is a serious question - I imagine there are real reasons why not, I just can't think of any myself apart from inconvenience/general principle).
  • weixiyen 13y ago
    Because it's more satisfying to be a jerk towards someone who can do nothing about the situation, under the guise of principle.
    • code_duck 13y ago
      How was that exchange with the clerk 'being a jerk'?
      • scotty79 13y ago
        Apparently nowadays it's being a jerk to ask people questions you should have guessed they have no way to answer productively.
        • rsynnott 13y ago
          Erm, yes, it really kind of is.
      • interpol_p 13y ago
        Asking the clerk to verify the photo ID in place of a Facebook account was a bit strange. You'd probably have an inkling that their authentication is based on Facebook, so the photo ID thing is highly unlikely to work. (It seemed to be said more to counter the clerk's statement of not being able to validate users than a proposal of a real solution). The clerk actually provided a real, practical solution (fake account) that the author does not seem to think very highly of.
  • scelerat 13y ago
    Fake names are contrary to Facebook's policy. Your account may get disabled. https://www.facebook.com/help/www/112146705538576 https://www.facebook.com/help/www/112146705538576
• theg2 13y ago
  Where is this, Toscanini? I don't think the guy running the register and dipping the ice cream has the ability to override whatever settings the tech guy put into the router for the owner in the first place but can't you just walk down the street to the free Starbucks? These are their terms, why does everyone have to argue with others about free services provided?
  • carlob 13y ago
    I'm not gonna give bad publicity to them by confirming or denying the identity of the ice cream shop. While I'm sure I could have gone to Starbucks or used a mobile connection I was back to Cambridge after a year and I didn't have an American sim card. I'm sure this thing is no big inconvenience as a former regular customer I felt this was a downgrade from the service they used to offer and I decided to voice my dissatisfaction. On the other hand I think that facebook being used as a replacement for identity verification both in meat-space and on the web is somewhat worrying, because facebook is neither an open standard like email or something like a passport (and I know I'm gonna get some libertarian angry) which is government issued. In short I'm ok with a government monopoly (especially when it's a natural monopoly) or with multiple corporate interoperable choices, but a corporate monopolies are dangerous.
  • zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 13y ago
    Why do you think that it is wrong to argue for something that you think would make the world a better place? Suppose I offered free drinking water that had radon in it, would it be wrong for you to argue for getting rid of the radon because it's free, and my terms are that there is radon in it?
    • cycrutchfield 13y ago
      If those are your terms, it's up to the customer to decide whether they would accept those terms in exchange for the water. I don't see the problem
      • zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 13y ago
• oliland 13y ago
  That sounds truly awful. How did you manage to enjoy your ice cream without wifi?
• nicolethenerd 13y ago
  Reminds me of a situation I once encountered in the Mumbai airport. I open up my computer and see there's free wifi - I try to log on, it wants me to verify my identity by sending me a text message... of course, I don't have an Indian sim card, as I'm just traveling there for a short period of time (I would think many people inside an airport would be in this situation). Fortunately, they have an alternate verification process, which is to get a code from one of 3 information desks... all located outside the secure area. And of course, I'm not allowed back out there because I've already gone through security - like many travelers, I'm sure, I didn't try to sit down with my laptop and log onto the wifi until after I had gotten to the gate. There was, ultimately, nothing to be done - I found other ways to entertain myself during the 2 hour wait. :-/
• loceng 13y ago
  Internally the "..." was a facepalm right?
• caprad 13y ago
  What do you imagine, the clerk has access to the a wifi panel where he can just enter in your details, match it to your mac address, and you can bypass the facebook login? That this guy has been trained on a complex system, which has very little use, makes them no direct extra money, would be more expensive and a pain in the ass? So you acting like a jerk just makes you look stupid, and then you write about it online as if you somehow made a point?
  • zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 13y ago
    So, asking for alternatives to what you consider ethically questionable makes you a jerk then? And opression is not to be questioned if getting rid of it and its externalities would cost something?
    • caprad 13y ago
      Ha, come on, is this oppression? And the problem we all have is that this guy is taking it out on the clerk, who has no responsibility in deciding this, has no control, and present a reasonable solution despite not having too. The guy who went there for ice cream is more to blame than the clerk in this issue.
      • zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 13y ago
        First, yes, it is. It's enforcing a social norm without any actual need (by society at large, I do understand the motivation of the icecream shop). Note that I am not saying who is responsible for it, oppression can be institutionalized and without any bad intentions by anyone in particular, that does not make it any less oppressive to those who are affected. Second, how did you get the impression he was "taking it out on the clerk"? He simply was asking for an alternative method to access the WiFi and expressing his concerns about his privacy. Are you also to blame for taking it out on the clerk if you ask, for example, whether you might open some window because you think it's too hot or too cold or whatever?
• marincounty 13y ago
  Yes, "Just make one with a fake name!". It's pathetic it's come to this, but I have found people don't really care about privacy. I think we need another Mcarthy Era in order for the masses to really take notice? Sure we complain, but too many of us just go along with the status quo. I gave up, and just use a pseudonym.
• chasing 13y ago
  I bet they wouldn't even let you pay with Bitcoin!
• interpol_p 13y ago
  I have a Facebook account that I barely ever use, and I would not use it to access free WiFi. That said, I can only side with the ice cream shop salesperson in your anecdote. Just make a Facebook account with a fake name, use it when you want to. You seem more angry about the requirement of a Facebook account than not being able to use the free WiFi. But the fact is: if your goal is to use their free WiFi, you can do so without giving up your privacy (fake account).
• diminoten 13y ago
  You have privacy concerns about making a fake Facebook account but you want to get onto an open wifi? Modern day hypochondriacs, the lot of you...