19 ms·

Get Facebook WiFi for your business

298 points by BigBalli 13y ago

modeless 13y ago
Coming soon: captive portals that pretend to be Facebook WiFi and ask for your Facebook username and password.
ihsw 13y ago
And so Facebook encroaches upon the physical world to anchor itself -- storefront businesses will come to rely on Facebook to sell personalized ads. I wouldn't be surprised if Facebook gets to access data about who purchases what and when. If you don't think Google will be doing the same thing with LTE-enabled cars, think again. Their partnership with automakers is no small challenge, and the data gathering opportunity is massive. Google can know that most Honda Civic drivers in Chicago (for example) park next to McDonald's, and that their phones traveled inside the restaurant -- Facebook will know only that people checked into the restaurant. It stands to reason that Honda could use this information and market the Civic as "the best" car for eating at McDonald's. Maybe Honda Civic drivers get a special McDonald's discount? Facebook pretty much beat Foursquare to the punch on this one, but (most interestingly) Foursquare relies on OpenStreetMaps -- what does Facebook use? Is it proprietary? What is "Places Nearby"?
- MartinCron 13y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if Facebook gets to access to data about who purchases what and when The upside would be that you at least wouldn't keep seeing ads for things that you just purchased, as Facebook would know that you already have them. Kind of a crappy silver lining, I know.
  - travem 13y ago
    I wouldn't be so sure, I am positive Amazon still bombards me with Kindle Ads despite owning a couple already :)
    - mimiflynn 13y ago
      It has always struck me as odd that Amazon shows me ads for things I had searched for and didn't buy as though I didn't already know about those products. Seems they should perhaps show me what other people bought that searched for similar or the same products as myself.
      - freehunter 13y ago
        There was some talk of this on HN a while back, where the marketing theory presented was that there is a noticeable increase in sales if the customer walks away from a sale but is then later reminded of the product they almost bought.
      - hvass 13y ago
        From my experience with retargeting it drives amazing lift in conversions. A lot of platforms allow you to do this dynamic ad placing where you show the recently added item in a cart, but not purchased. Also, let's not forget that Amazon is obsessed with testing, I am sure they have troves of it to back up everything they are doing.
      - ianferrel 13y ago
        I walk away from purchases plenty of times not because I don't want to buy the thing I searched for, but because something more pressing comes up. Reminding me about the thing I was about to buy is very likely to get me to buy it in those cases.
    - gmu3 13y ago
      Sounds like the ads are super effective then.
  - bruceboughton 13y ago
    I wouldn't bet on it. Amazon knows exactly what I just bought and still shows me 100 different variations on it "recommended" for me.
    - dblacc 13y ago
      I've often wondered why they do this. I see more variations of items I just purchased rather than accompanying/related items.
      - wattson12 13y ago
        it works for a lot of cases, e.g. buy a book and get other books recommended, not so well for rarer purchases like laptops or phones.
        joosters 13y ago
        I still get recommendations for the same book I just bought, but in different editions/formats. Seems like it could be improved some more.
        dingaling 13y ago
        But be careful of the 'Perfect Partner / frequently bought with...' recommendations, which Amazon themselves disavow as being in any way compatible: If two items listed as Perfect Partner / Frequently Bought Together are not compatible, Amazon.co.uk are unable to accept the return of either item for this reason.
    - 27182818284 13y ago
      That's because it is just doing item-based collaborative filtering, right? It works beautifully other times. I bought chopsticks once and it showed me not more chopsticks, but other accessories for sushi, etc.
    - sn0v 13y ago
      It drives me nuts when I log in to Amazon and it keeps showing me all these parts for building a new PC. Damnit Amazon I just built one! How many processors do you think a single gaming PC can fit?!
- maaaats 13y ago
  > what does Facebook use? Is it proprietary? On maps on Facebook, the small text says "(C) Microsoft (C) Nokia".
  - fredsted 13y ago
    Doesn't Facebook use bing for translation and maps?
    - RyJones 13y ago
      Given the Microsoft investment in Facebook, this seems likely
    - fudged71 13y ago
      I received a document in a message from a friend and it opened in Microsoft Office's cloud. They seem to have a lot of Microsoft integration.
    - TeMPOraL 13y ago
      AFAIR it does use Bing for translation, I'm pretety sure that I saw the "translation provided by Bing" note after translating a Facebook comment the other day.
- mcormier 13y ago
  > And so Facebook encroaches upon the physical world to anchor itself Reminded me of this limited edition like counter, called Fliike. http://www.smiirl.com/ http://www.smiirl.com/
  - philsnow 13y ago
    Is this a bad typo, or do I just not understand something: > 2. Connect your _Fliike_ to the “Smiirl” Wi-Fi network and open your browser on any page. Set up your Wi-Fi network and password. (emphasis added). They should s/Fliike/device/ or s/Fliike/laptop/ for this to make any sense.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- Peroni 13y ago
  And so Facebook encroaches upon the physical world to anchor itself Not sure if you intended to sound so pessimistic but surely that's only a good thing? From a business perspective, this is an incredibly clever service. From a users perspective, this is an incredibly useful service. Everyone seems to forget that Facebook users are not the consumer, they are the product being sold. If, by using this service, Facebook delivers me alarmingly specific adverts, then so be it. I've yet to be hurt by looking at an advert.
  - ihsw 13y ago
    Oh, most definitely is it a good thing. Their initial foray into consumer products -- the HTC First -- was an absolute disaster. Strategically speaking I would not at all be surprised that this quells the fears surrounding Facebook's future, especially if it gains traction. We're witnessing the end of anonymous free wifi, and nobody is better equipped for identifying users than Facebook.
  - rch 13y ago
    Some people legitimately can be though. I take that statement as an axiom.
  - anon808 13y ago
    Unfortunately looking isn't all that's going on. The advertiser can collect data about web browsing habits which I like to keep private. And some ads can actually hurt you: http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/05/tech/yahoo-malware-attack/ http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/05/tech/yahoo-malware-attack/ Getting served data from someone you didn't choose to send you data is never a good thing.
  - User8712 13y ago
    Agreed, it's good for business. Increase your Facebook likes by having Facebook WiFi available to your customers, and therefore, get more traffic through the door as Facebook recommends your business to their friends. Also, you should be able to get some kind of analytic data back from Facebook. They should be able to show you that 75% of your WiFi users are female, 18-35, or that your customers change based on time, or day of the week. Therefore, if you know younger people drink more cappuccinos, and they come in more often at noon, you can put that drink front and center. Sure, you could do this without Facebook, but it's logging who's in your store for you, so no extra work on your part. This is even better for Facebook. Oh look, John likes to login to this coffee place, maybe we can recommend coffee ads to him. Or, more importantly, why don't we allow competing coffee shops to bid on customers using their main competitor? Think about that. There's a Starbucks across the street from your cafe. If you can advertise directly to people that use that Starbucks, that's a dream, and you'd pay a premium. Or hey, Steve (male, 35, employed, based on his Facebook profile) was just hanging out in this Honda dealership. Ford, interested in advertising your latest offers to him? So yes, this is great for business. I don't think it's that great for consumers. You might get more WiFi hotspots, which is a plus, but you're giving up your privacy to use them. Also, if you prefer not to use Facebook, you might lose access to WiFi at your favorite locations.
- ThomPete 13y ago
  They use bing.
- brjohnson 13y ago
  >Google can know that most Honda Civic drivers in Chicago (for example) park next to McDonald's, and that their phones traveled inside the restaurant This is already in beta testing. http://marketingland.com/google-quietly-testing-offline-store-visits-tracking-64778 http://marketingland.com/google-quietly-testing-offline-stor... >Google is beta-testing a program that uses smartphone location data to determine when consumers visit stores, according to agency executives briefed on the program by Google employees. Google then connects these store visits to Google searches conducted on smartphones in an attempt to prove that its mobile ads do, in fact, work. Google is reportedly using location in the background (on Android and iOS) and its database of business locations (my guess) to determine when people visit stores. >Disabling location reporting also disables Google Now features tied to location, which may be undesirable. It also explains why they killed Skyhook. http://www.theverge.com/2011/05/12/google-android-skyhook-lawsuit-motorola-samsung/ http://www.theverge.com/2011/05/12/google-android-skyhook-la...
- hoka 13y ago
  Just on LTE-enabled cars? Think bigger! They're running a full fiber optic service; they have every packet coming into and out of your house. I, for one, welcome our gigabit overlords if only for the fact that they have Comcast, Cox, Time Warner, etc shaking in their boots.
- msoad 13y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if Facebook gets to access to data about who purchases what and when I would sell all my transaction history for $5/month. Why should I care if their ads are getting better when I never pay attention to ads?
  - joosters 13y ago
    I never pay attention to ads Just about everyone thinks this. But you're wrong. It's pretty much impossible not to be affected by advertising. Sure, you don't click on the links, but the product placement and brand awareness is not something that you can turn off!
    - fastball 13y ago
      Ok... so now I'm affected by ads that are actually relevant to my life... not sure how this is a bad thing.
    - tedd4u 13y ago
      Unless Flash / ads disabled ... ?
  - angersock 13y ago
    You're not just selling your own transaction history, though--you are selling the other half of it as well. If I'm a private business or individual, I would prefer my customers not broadcast their affiliation--because some third-party source of data could be used to drive solicitation, or target advertising, or just in general be a nuisance. Remember, when you give up transaction history, you aren't just ratting on yourself--you're ratting on whomever you've done business with.
  - guloizo 13y ago
    you don't understand how ads work, do you ? educate yourself about neuromarketing and read this 1920's book by Freud's nephew Edward Bernays. Also you don't understand how profiling works, do you ? A visible effect is ads, but it's not the only one and there are invisible effects. See NSA, crackers and http://online.wsj.com/public/page/what-they-know-digital-privacy.html http://online.wsj.com/public/page/what-they-know-digital-pri...
- bluekitten 13y ago
  I am happy that Apple doesn't need to encroach on user privacy to make money, atleast for now. All this giving away stuff for free and then storing private information forever to drive ads is getting very annoying.
- lkamini 13y ago
  brjohnson, not sure why your interesting comment was deleted, but here it is. >Google can know that most Honda Civic drivers in Chicago (for example) park next to McDonald's, and that their phones traveled inside the restaurant This is already in beta testing. http://marketingland.com/google-quietly-testing-offline-store-visits-tracking-64778 http://marketingland.com/google-quietly-testing-offline-stor... >Google is beta-testing a program that uses smartphone location data to determine when consumers visit stores, according to agency executives briefed on the program by Google employees. Google then connects these store visits to Google searches conducted on smartphones in an attempt to prove that its mobile ads do, in fact, work. Google is reportedly using location in the background (on Android and iOS) and its database of business locations (my guess) to determine when people visit stores. >Disabling location reporting also disables Google Now features tied to location, which may be undesirable. It also explains why they killed Skyhook. http://www.theverge.com/2011/05/12/google-android-skyhook-lawsuit-motorola-samsung/ http://www.theverge.com/2011/05/12/google-android-skyhook-la...
- alan_cx 13y ago
  What, google is now the standard of privacy? Its OK because Google do it or something similar. Yeah, beginning to want off this planet.
- poorelise 13y ago
  "Honda could use this information and market the Civic as "the best" car for eating at McDonald's." There might be a horror scenario in there somewhere, but this isn't it :-)
RankingMember 13y ago
Well that's an interesting one, dangling free wifi in exchange for joining/staying on Facebook. Personally, I'd just create a throwaway Facebook account to use for these.
- sbarre 13y ago
  Do you also have a regular Facebook account? Because it sounds like this could be tied to your mobile device, which means it uses the account you've conveniently provided in your OS profile, which would make this difficult...
  - colinbartlett 13y ago
    That's an interesting point. I do not have a Facebook account, but I would consider making a fake one with fake name in order to use this. I probably wouldn't bother at all if it meant I had to remain logged in or connected to Facebook on my device all the time though.
  - RankingMember 13y ago
    I do, but I wouldn't want to pollute it with silly carrot-and-stick-derived check-ins. I'd probably just de-link my FB account on my phone and use the dummy account, then re-link later, depending on how hard up I was for internet access and the expected wait time. Most people will just click "accept" without reading anything and status feeds will be flooded with check-ins.
- mcpherrinm 13y ago
  There is a "skip check in" link if you don't want to check in. Though it's unclear to me if you still need a Facebook account logged in.
  - colinbartlett 13y ago
    "Skip Check In" will become the 2014 equivalent of 1999's "Skip Intro".
runn1ng 13y ago
This is evil on so many levels
- gregcrv 13y ago
  yes. the race to user information gathering is getting more and more crazy... and it's unfortunately not ready to end !
- miguelrochefort 13y ago
  Dat circle jerk.
- nemothekid 13y ago
  God save us from the evils of complentary free WiFi
swasheck 13y ago
> Customers simply check in to your location on Facebook to connect to free Wi-Fi wow. not only do they get you to sign up for an account, they also get more insight into your movements/migrations by forcing you to use a feature that (for now) you can disable. nobody says you have to use the service but we'll see how many more sell out for it. edit: read more How do I edit the Wi-Fi code my customers use to skip check-in? To edit your Wi-Fi code: Go to your Page and click Edit Page at the top of your admin panel. Select Edit Settings from the dropdown menu. Click on the More... tab and select Facebook Wi-Fi. Select Require Wi-Fi code and edit your Wi-Fi code in the box. You can also choose not to require a code by selecting Skip check-in link. Click Save Settings.
- hrrsn 13y ago
  If you don't like it, don't buy a Facebook WiFi router. For our business use case, this is perfect.
  - swasheck 13y ago
    ... or don't go to a business that has purchased a Facebook WiFi router.
    - stock_toaster 13y ago
      Imagine hotels using this for their "free in room internet". I would seek lodging elsewhere.
  - guloizo 13y ago
    There's no business case where telling a portion of customers or would be customers to go fuck themselves and kicking them out. Having a facebook only "free" internet is doing just that.
static_typed 13y ago
I can see the conversations now: "..and they trust you with their wife data?" "Dumbfucks".
mrfusion 13y ago
I'm confused what the end user experience is. Do you need a special app that somehow goes into your iPhone settings and adds a network? How would it work on laptops?
- maaaats 13y ago
  It probably works like many public WiFis do today: A normal "unprotected" WiFi that redirects all requests to a kind of "login" page until the user has accepted some terms etc.
- objclxt 13y ago
  I actually came across this in the wild last weekend (Phillz Coffee in Noe, SF, if anyone is interested). On a laptop it's no different to any other landing page on a public WiFi network, except you see a Facebook branded page asking you to check-in to connect (or to skip check-in, which I did, and it connected me straight away). Putting privacy concerns aside, it was easy to use and pretty painless.
mseebach 13y ago
This is a pretty good idea. It solves the coordination problem of not wanting to just provide free wifi forever to anyone by requiring a token "payment". It solves the identification problem which (unfortunately) is a requirement in many jurisdictions. And it helps non-technical business owners provide decent wifi.
- zuckerfap 13y ago
  There's nothing decent about WiFi that links your customers to the creepiest personal info vacuum on earth.
  - mbillie1 13y ago
    Meh. Just filter what you put on Facebook, or don't use it. I'm not in favor of this, and I do find it creepy, but nobody holds a gun to your head and makes you log in and post status updates recapping your day. It's a trade off - the pleasure/whatever you get from FB vs the creepiness/unpleasantness from them having your information. If the balance tips, re-evaluate using the service.
    - samana 13y ago
      The "don't use it" argument falls apart when you realize that Facebook builds shadow profiles for people who don't use Facebook. http://www.zdnet.com/firm-facebooks-shadow-profiles-are-frightening-dossiers-on-everyone-7000017199/ http://www.zdnet.com/firm-facebooks-shadow-profiles-are-frig...
      - mbillie1 13y ago
        That stuff is creepy, but I always find claims of such-and-such a company stealing "my data" a little weird when that data turns out to be very public information about me such as my name, phone number and what I look like.
    - chrismarlow9 13y ago
      Post, don't post, doesn't matter. Your friends who do post will give enough information about you that not having an account wont matter. Nothing stops someone from tagging you in a photo. Nothing will stop people from posting "Hanging with XXX @ YYY". Putting 2 and 2 together: they now know who you are, types of places you visit, and what you look like. And you never made an account. After this your choices are: - get radical with friends about what they post about you - give in and use facebook - stop hanging out with your friends
sergiotapia 13y ago
Absolutely disgusting. These type of things just give me the willies. Everyday I see that Mr. Stallman was right, it's incredible!
- jasonlfunk 13y ago
  Why is this "absolutely disgusting"? It's good for Facebook, it's good for local businesses, and it completely optional for consumers. I don't see any problem here.
  - zuckerfap 13y ago
    Just like all other "optional" features Facebook has provided in the past, they will inevitably figure out a way to hide the fact that using these hotspots checks you in, and probably spams your "friends" with a record of whatever you ate.
    - patrickread 13y ago
      Also if you look at the page, you can see you can change who you share the check-in with. It's just like Facebook app integrations: you can switch the share settings to "only me" if you want a private check-in if you're worried about spamming others.
      - lucb1e 13y ago
        Wait I thought he was joking. Facebook actually suggests that you share your current location with everyone?
        encoderer 13y ago
        Maybe you're new to Facebook..
    - daeken 13y ago
      > they will inevitably figure out a way to hide the fact that using these hotspots checks you in Using the hotspots doesn't check you in; checking in allows you to use the hotspot. Seriously, read the page before spewing FUD.
pathy 13y ago
There are privacy concerns but overall I think it is a splendid idea, both for Facebook and for the businesses that choose to join. Your run of the mill free wifi is neither secure nor private to begin with and I don't see Facebook Wifi encroaching on privacy any more than currently available free wifi.
- mbillie1 13y ago
  This is a good point. Honestly the most annoying thing will be the polluting of fb feeds with checkins (something it is possible to ignore from others I believe, but not prevent from posting yourself if you check in on fb... which is the whole idea of course)
  - pathy 13y ago
    That is a fair point, and it will be interesting to see how Facebook will deal with "feed pollution".
    - chaz 13y ago
      It already has this problem, and its solution was to default sort to "Top Stories" instead of "Latest Stories." A lot of accusations that it was a money-grubbing play for pay-for-performance, but I don't think they had much choice. They had to fix the problem of a few noisy people, pages or apps dominating users' feeds. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5320207 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5320207
- zuckerfap 13y ago
  Do you honestly believe facebook won't look for and find ways to encroach on privacy more than currently available free wifi does? Their entire mission is to encroach on privacy, and now they've got you connecting to their wifi hotspots at the gynecologist's office.
  - pathy 13y ago
    Assuming you are a Facebook user they would know your location anyway, Facebook Wifi or non-Facebook wifi. Then again, considering your username I guess you aren't a fan of Facebook at all.
zx2c4 13y ago
If this becomes widespread, the phishing potential will be huge. Everybody is used to clicking through SSL warnings, or not having SSL at all when registering with hotspots. Rogue APs redux here we come.
- mseebach 13y ago
  Any moderately busy location is already abuzz with dodgy-looking access points. It appears you have to join using an app, presumably that app will check certs against a whitelist.
pherk 13y ago
This is so cool. It lets Facebook amass a massive amount of data about customer whereabouts and whatabouts. The incentive for merchants is quite compelling. However, Facebook needs to do a damn good job to convince the customers to use it.
- kmfrk 13y ago
  I don't know about that. Looks at Google DNS. The convenience of circumventing regional restrictions on things like The Pirate Bay often are enough for people to convert. I think it's going to go down rather well, assuming the shop owners have the savvy to implement it.
- smackfu 13y ago
  You connect to the wifi, it sends you to a login page with a Facebook button. You click it and you get access. Not too much friction for the customer.
- jmathai 13y ago
  Really? I don't think they do at all. I know for certain that if my wife were at Starbucks and had the option of "sign onto wifi using Facebook" that she would happily do it.
zuckerfap 13y ago
I bet Zuckerberg's palms are already starting to sweat just imagining how easily he can use this feature to get creepy on people.
ar7hur 13y ago
First I thought that FB would provide the hardware and internet connection to the business in exchange for so much information about their customers... But after reading their FAQ, I realize that no, FB does not provide anything. The deal is like "give me your customer info and your internet connection, I'll give you... maybe a few more likes on your page". Eventually for consumers like me who don't use FB, it's going to be a loss of service. Some businesses who had open Wifi will now require FB check-in to provide access. Sad.
- objclxt 13y ago
  > Some businesses who had open Wifi will now require FB check-in to provide access. Check-in isn't required to get access. My local coffee shop switched over to a Facebook WiFi point over the weekend (Phillz, who have a branch in Menlo Park so I assume must be piloting it). All that really changed for me as an end user was the old splash page got replaced with a Facebook page asking me if I'd like to check-in (along with a button to skip check in, which I used).
  - ar7hur 13y ago
    So you don't even need to log in to Facebook? Even if that's the case, I'm afraid this will be tempting for the business to require check-in. Let's see if Phillz changes their settings!
  - jmathai 13y ago
    It's not required but let's be honest - it'll be what happens. Pretty sure the average person would rather "check in" via Facebook than using the current "click this checkbox and continue". People trust and like Facebook. They don't trust or like GogoBoingo Wireless.
    - oceanplexian 13y ago
      Actually I'd trust Boingo more than Facebook as a platform. They've been around since 2001, Facebook since 2004.
bidev 13y ago
my 2 cents : people will create fake accounts and will use wifi for p2p
- lucb1e 13y ago
  Psst, don't tip them off
lightblade 13y ago
Then use checkins as loyalty card?
- MartinCron 13y ago
  That seems like something that can already happen or is already happening. I saw a sign for 10% off your order if you're the FourSquare mayor a few years ago. It's tacky, but most loyalty card things feel that way to me.
- lucb1e 13y ago
  And after that Facebook implements a feature so that supermarkets and other businesses don't need to give out cards anymore to track what you buy? That sounds pretty brilliant. Then they have everything you like (or visit when there is a FB Like button) (probably also implies political views), probably your school background and places you worked and lived, places you've traveled to (FB WiFi!) or came by and your phone automatically connected with its known MAC address (more FB WiFi!), comments you posted, loads of private conversations with friends and family, and of course your entire social graph. And, if you cared to fill it out, your DoB, books you read, movies you've seen, photos of you and your friends (probably during various activities), and events you go/went to. Lovely. Guys, the NSA can quit! All the FBI has to do is submit a data request and they're golden. Lots of laughs while they sift through your conversations, searching for what they are actually looking for. On a more serious note, even if Facebook is not evil at all, and let's say for the moment that they aren't, that is a scary amount of information in one place. It would be a shame if anyone hacked it. Or legally obtained it. Or someone simply made a mistake and gave it out to someone impersonating law enforcement.
Nikolas0 13y ago
Sounds like trouble for zoottle.com but I guess their product is a little different (connected to other networks as well, etc.)
dangrossman 13y ago
I'd consider advertising Facebook on a wifi hotspot as soon as they offer to pay for it by assuming liability for customers using that hotspot to share a bunch of film and TV show torrents. As long as courts keep pretending that an IP address is the same as a person, it doesn't make sense for small businesses with small pockets to offer free wifi.
- natrius 13y ago
  Pretty much every coffee shop and at least half of the restaurants I walk into offer wifi, so I think the problem is smaller than you claim.
- shin_lao 13y ago
  It's pretty easy to limit the bitrate by client. In addition with Facebook wifi, people might be less inclined to bad behavior as they use their facebook account (granted, they could create a bogus one, but still, that makes them traceable).
- IvyMike 13y ago
  But those cases have mostly been open unauthenticated wifi, no? If I'm understanding this, this provides the courts a traceable way to go after an authenticated person (or at least, a facebook account) rather than just an IP address. I think the courts that have pretended that "IP=person" have done so because they don't have anything better.
- Kiro 13y ago
  Most cafés and restaurants offer free WiFi so not sure what you're on about.
dade_ 13y ago
This has been available for several months now. To answer a few questions I've seen, it uses a typical captive portal approach, so an unencrypted WiFi hotspot. Upon connection, you are redirected to an encrypted site with embedded Facebook account verification, at which point you can go wherever the Internet service lets you. The router typically has content filtering and also tracks Internet usage (bandwidth, visited sites, etc) as well as limits on visit length etc. It is a useful option for merchants, as customers expect WiFi for free. Further, they expect it to be fast and that doesn't expose them to security risks. In other words, this gets expensive and difficult to manage. There are great solutions out there already, but they cost money - so the business case is based on marketing data. Email authentication would work, but it is difficult to gain much insight about customers, also you would need to give people access to their email server to setup their authentication. SMS doesn't work for people who don't have cell phones, or if there is poor coverage - also marketing data would be very difficult to gain. So, Social Media authentication (Facebook) turns out to be a really great option. Obviously you have the choice not to use the service, but this isn't going away. Industry codes of conduct need to be set and I don't think they have. Privacy laws need to be understood and enforced. Retailer and coffee shop activities with this data haven't caused me much concern, but Facebook is another story.
- oceanplexian 13y ago
  If your business depends on WiFi (e.g. Coffee Shop), this could potentially hurt business. Only ~50-70% of US Internet users use Facebook and that is dropping. As a business owner I'd be concerned about alienation. Facebook is far from universal and many avoid it (especially the younger crowd).
  - loumf 13y ago
    Looks like there's a way to skip the checkin with a code that you get from the business.
  - telecuda 13y ago
    A hybrid approach would be nice for your example: check in on Facebook to get online yourself, or go ask the barista for the WiFi password
acjacobson 13y ago
I am not really sure why so many people here are alarmed at the privacy implications. Google or Apple and your ISP / Telecom already know where you are at all times unless you are one of the very few people that don't carry a cell phone. Your ISP already knows every site that you look at from your home computer - how exactly is this different? Why is Facebook inherently any more or less trustworthy than any of these other companies? They are just happen to also know where you are when you optionally check in?
ececconi 13y ago
My friend owns a small tutoring business. They give out free wifi to all of their students. I think having this as an option would be a great way for them to build awareness of their local business.
vrypan 13y ago
http://www.zoottle.com/ http://www.zoottle.com/ does this, but gives you more control and is not limited to facebook login of course. It also gives you detailed stats (I didn't see any mention of getting visitor stats by FB wifi).
- michaelmior 13y ago
  The fact that their plans appear include a certain number of Facebook likes seems very sketchy. However, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and just assume that this number is the number of users who are given the option to like your page.
trevmckendrick 13y ago
Other than Wifi, does the user get anything out of this deal? Is another free hotspot worth giving up your data? It would to me if they made wifi ubiquitous and drop dead easy to use. That said, I don't think wifi is in the plans of the future. Eventually some other constant data connection will take its place.
nextstep 13y ago
Hell no. Business owners, please don't use this for wifi in your stores! I refuse to use Facebook to leave a trail of where I am physically just to use the wifi.
- maaaats 13y ago
  If you bother to read the page, you will see that owners still can set an "access token" (password) they can give users to log in.
jglazko 13y ago
They lost me at "Check in to Facebook". Anything that requires me to use Facebook is a non-starter.
zerop 13y ago
Free wifi would actually help Google more..
angersock 13y ago
Jesus Christ, have we all learned nothing? It's a swarm of lemmings being led by blind moles. Fucking awful.
debacle 13y ago
This could be genius if Facebook puts the right momentum behind it.
cpeterso 13y ago
Does "Facebook WiFi" allow users to access any web content or just Facebook? The product page only describes how users and businesses can use a variety of Facebook features. For many people, Facebook access alone would be good enough.
pcl 13y ago
I wonder if they're doing anything with MAC address correlation to track devices that do not join their net.
carlob 13y ago
Real conversation happened to me in an ice cream shop with a home-brewed facebook captive portal in Cambridge, MA. me: Excuse me, is there a way to log into the wifi if you don't have a facebook account? clerk: No, we've had a lots people doing illegal stuff on our wifi, so we need to verify their identity. me: I understand, however I don't have a facebook account. Would you like to verify my identity with a photo id? clerk: No, you'll need to get a facebook account. me: I have serious concerns about my privacy. I will not make one just for the sake of getting online here. clerk: Just make one with a fake name! me: …
- joeblau 13y ago
  The clerk must not be familiar with Facebook's "Real Name" policy. I think that asking a store clerk is probably never going to get you anywhere though. They are the least likely people to be involved with technical decisions. That's something that would be better taken up with the business owner. What's sad is that the business owner would probably be willing to sacrifice your business for the perceived benefit that he/she is getting from Facebook's WiFi.
  - mononcqc 13y ago
    The irony is rather that the excuse they provide is that they want to verify people's identity to prevent abuse, but then openly recommend using a fake identity to log on.
    - sean-duffy 13y ago
      The person in charge wanted to verify people's identities. The store clerk just wants to deal with the customer, his recommendation does not necessarily reflect the opinions of his employer.
    - pbhjpbhj 13y ago
      The shop management request a FB identifier as this reduces abuse of their wifi. If that didn't work they probably wouldn't use it - it's basically a way to require work of those who want to log on anonymously, probably enough work that it's easier to just go elsewhere. The shop staff suggested using a faked ID - but they didn't suggest that this should still be the persons only ID for Facebook. That was their solution as an individual. They're not even particularly contrary as practical solutions go - the first policy is presented to the public, it works to reduce wifi abuse. The second "policy" is not presented and works to try and avoid confrontations.
Zigurd 13y ago
My reaction is "Brilliant, daring!" and "Why did it have to be Facebook? I'm trying to get away from Facebook." Time to create a fake Facebook identity.
al2o3cr 13y ago
Wow. Given that the default FB setting is "HTTPS off", you might as well just pass around a note with your FB login + password to everybody else in the business.
- archivator 13y ago
  Facebook has been https by default since July 2013. https://www.facebook.com/notes/facebook-engineering/secure-browsing-by-default/10151590414803920 https://www.facebook.com/notes/facebook-engineering/secure-b...
edwhitesell 13y ago
So, since FB "owns" the user, I wonder if that means this service is compliant with CALEA [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CALEA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CALEA] or whatever the most current version is. It was a mess to deal with back in the early 2000's while operating WiFi networks. If FB is not compliant, maybe the government will make an example out of FB when they are unable to comply with wiretap requests. IIRC, the fines could be upwards of $20k/day of non-compliance after receiving a warrant for a specific user's data.
bearjew 13y ago
Forget about logging in for wifi. This is a direct competitor to Nomi. Facebook will now know whenever your MAC Address walks by a storefront with one of these routers, regardless if you have an account. For those who have installed the app (the majority of the country) FB will be able to match the MAC ID to your account. In addition to simply foot traffic walking by the store, the router will track information on when you are actually in the store, how long you stayed there, and how frequently you visit. Eventually those with FB on their phone will have ads pushed to them when they pass one of these routers. I imagine it wouldn't just be for stores with the routers but those within the immediate vicinity. Of course none of the data collected will be shared with the storeowners until they are sold the ads by facebook.
- angersock 13y ago
  Fuck me, you've got an excellent point there sir/madam.
dignified_devil 13y ago
Isn't there a direct relationship between bandwidth speeds and mobile tethering usage? Is it safe to assume that this (free wifi) will become obsolete within the next 5 years?
dignified_devil 13y ago
Isn't there a direct relationship between bandwidth speeds and mobile tethering usage? Is it safe to assume that this (free wifi) will become obsolete within the next 5 years?
blueskin_ 13y ago
Another way for facebook to datamine people's personal details. Wonderful.
mergy 13y ago
Up next: Facebook public toilets. "Like = dump"
lucb1e 13y ago
Well, good thing I have a few accounts handy.
oniTony 13y ago
Facebook WiFi doesn't take over HTTPS traffic, so I can continue to browse HN comments without Facebook signin. Actually following links doesn't work as well on average (even with HTTPS Everywhere).
ahugon 13y ago
This is really cool. Wifi being unavailable "in the wild" is something that continues to be an annoyance; if this actually starts being adopted by businesses, I think it could have a massive impact on who patronizes which establishments. Ironically, I also view this as potentially helping Google with Chromebook sales... the more prevalent WiFi becomes, the more useful a Chromebook becomes.
zuckerfap 13y ago
It's always interesting to me how, the more an entity has shown itself to disregard the privacy and rights of it's users/customers/citizens/etc in the past, the more people are willing to extend the benefit of the doubt that they won't continue to do so on new ventures. This will be abused, they will overstep massively at some point, people will complain, then they'll take a cosmetic baby step backwards, and possibly provide their users with a pixelated cow icon to make up for it... then continue on their way. I'm guessing everyone has already forgotten about the "we read your posts, even if you don't post them" thing recently? http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-facebook-can-track-users-unpublished-posts-20131217,0,7847582.story http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-facebook...
kimonos 13y ago
No thanks! I still prefer to use my pocket wifi..
gonzo 13y ago
Yet more "Pay Toilet" WiFi.
starnix17 13y ago
Philz Coffee (at least the one at Golden Gate and Larkin) has this. Before you can access any non-HTTPS pages you get a Facebook page with a big "Check-In" button and a very small "Skip" button.
jigneshg 13y ago
This is amazing news for both, customer and small businesses. Both can get benefited from this service. I always do check-in when i visit local store and also publish my review. This will help my friends to know about such local stores and also help business owners to find new customers !
guloizo 13y ago
So facebook has launched the next step in their attack on the internet, it's sad that they are succeeding where microsoft failed two decades ago with their attempt to replace the internet with their proprietary microsoft network.

298 points by BigBalli 13y ago

Coming soon: captive portals that pretend to be Facebook WiFi and ask for your Facebook username and password.

ihsw 13y ago

And so Facebook encroaches upon the physical world to anchor itself -- storefront businesses will come to rely on Facebook to sell personalized ads. I wouldn't be surprised if Facebook gets to access data about who purchases what and when. If you don't think Google will be doing the same thing with LTE-enabled cars, think again. Their partnership with automakers is no small challenge, and the data gathering opportunity is massive. Google can know that most Honda Civic drivers in Chicago (for example) park next to McDonald's, and that their phones traveled inside the restaurant -- Facebook will know only that people checked into the restaurant. It stands to reason that Honda could use this information and market the Civic as "the best" car for eating at McDonald's. Maybe Honda Civic drivers get a special McDonald's discount? Facebook pretty much beat Foursquare to the punch on this one, but (most interestingly) Foursquare relies on OpenStreetMaps -- what does Facebook use? Is it proprietary? What is "Places Nearby"?

MartinCron 13y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if Facebook gets to access to data about who purchases what and when The upside would be that you at least wouldn't keep seeing ads for things that you just purchased, as Facebook would know that you already have them. Kind of a crappy silver lining, I know.
- travem 13y ago
  I wouldn't be so sure, I am positive Amazon still bombards me with Kindle Ads despite owning a couple already :)
  - mimiflynn 13y ago
    It has always struck me as odd that Amazon shows me ads for things I had searched for and didn't buy as though I didn't already know about those products. Seems they should perhaps show me what other people bought that searched for similar or the same products as myself.
    - freehunter 13y ago
      There was some talk of this on HN a while back, where the marketing theory presented was that there is a noticeable increase in sales if the customer walks away from a sale but is then later reminded of the product they almost bought.
    - hvass 13y ago
      From my experience with retargeting it drives amazing lift in conversions. A lot of platforms allow you to do this dynamic ad placing where you show the recently added item in a cart, but not purchased. Also, let's not forget that Amazon is obsessed with testing, I am sure they have troves of it to back up everything they are doing.
    - ianferrel 13y ago
      I walk away from purchases plenty of times not because I don't want to buy the thing I searched for, but because something more pressing comes up. Reminding me about the thing I was about to buy is very likely to get me to buy it in those cases.
  - gmu3 13y ago
    Sounds like the ads are super effective then.
- bruceboughton 13y ago
  I wouldn't bet on it. Amazon knows exactly what I just bought and still shows me 100 different variations on it "recommended" for me.
  - dblacc 13y ago
    I've often wondered why they do this. I see more variations of items I just purchased rather than accompanying/related items.
    - wattson12 13y ago
      it works for a lot of cases, e.g. buy a book and get other books recommended, not so well for rarer purchases like laptops or phones.
      - joosters 13y ago
        I still get recommendations for the same book I just bought, but in different editions/formats. Seems like it could be improved some more.
      - dingaling 13y ago
        But be careful of the 'Perfect Partner / frequently bought with...' recommendations, which Amazon themselves disavow as being in any way compatible: If two items listed as Perfect Partner / Frequently Bought Together are not compatible, Amazon.co.uk are unable to accept the return of either item for this reason.
  - 27182818284 13y ago
    That's because it is just doing item-based collaborative filtering, right? It works beautifully other times. I bought chopsticks once and it showed me not more chopsticks, but other accessories for sushi, etc.
  - sn0v 13y ago
    It drives me nuts when I log in to Amazon and it keeps showing me all these parts for building a new PC. Damnit Amazon I just built one! How many processors do you think a single gaming PC can fit?!
maaaats 13y ago
> what does Facebook use? Is it proprietary? On maps on Facebook, the small text says "(C) Microsoft (C) Nokia".
- fredsted 13y ago
  Doesn't Facebook use bing for translation and maps?
  - RyJones 13y ago
    Given the Microsoft investment in Facebook, this seems likely
  - fudged71 13y ago
    I received a document in a message from a friend and it opened in Microsoft Office's cloud. They seem to have a lot of Microsoft integration.
  - TeMPOraL 13y ago
    AFAIR it does use Bing for translation, I'm pretety sure that I saw the "translation provided by Bing" note after translating a Facebook comment the other day.
mcormier 13y ago
> And so Facebook encroaches upon the physical world to anchor itself Reminded me of this limited edition like counter, called Fliike. http://www.smiirl.com/ http://www.smiirl.com/
- philsnow 13y ago
  Is this a bad typo, or do I just not understand something: > 2. Connect your _Fliike_ to the “Smiirl” Wi-Fi network and open your browser on any page. Set up your Wi-Fi network and password. (emphasis added). They should s/Fliike/device/ or s/Fliike/laptop/ for this to make any sense.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
Peroni 13y ago
And so Facebook encroaches upon the physical world to anchor itself Not sure if you intended to sound so pessimistic but surely that's only a good thing? From a business perspective, this is an incredibly clever service. From a users perspective, this is an incredibly useful service. Everyone seems to forget that Facebook users are not the consumer, they are the product being sold. If, by using this service, Facebook delivers me alarmingly specific adverts, then so be it. I've yet to be hurt by looking at an advert.
- ihsw 13y ago
  Oh, most definitely is it a good thing. Their initial foray into consumer products -- the HTC First -- was an absolute disaster. Strategically speaking I would not at all be surprised that this quells the fears surrounding Facebook's future, especially if it gains traction. We're witnessing the end of anonymous free wifi, and nobody is better equipped for identifying users than Facebook.
- rch 13y ago
  Some people legitimately can be though. I take that statement as an axiom.
- anon808 13y ago
  Unfortunately looking isn't all that's going on. The advertiser can collect data about web browsing habits which I like to keep private. And some ads can actually hurt you: http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/05/tech/yahoo-malware-attack/ http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/05/tech/yahoo-malware-attack/ Getting served data from someone you didn't choose to send you data is never a good thing.
- User8712 13y ago
  Agreed, it's good for business. Increase your Facebook likes by having Facebook WiFi available to your customers, and therefore, get more traffic through the door as Facebook recommends your business to their friends. Also, you should be able to get some kind of analytic data back from Facebook. They should be able to show you that 75% of your WiFi users are female, 18-35, or that your customers change based on time, or day of the week. Therefore, if you know younger people drink more cappuccinos, and they come in more often at noon, you can put that drink front and center. Sure, you could do this without Facebook, but it's logging who's in your store for you, so no extra work on your part. This is even better for Facebook. Oh look, John likes to login to this coffee place, maybe we can recommend coffee ads to him. Or, more importantly, why don't we allow competing coffee shops to bid on customers using their main competitor? Think about that. There's a Starbucks across the street from your cafe. If you can advertise directly to people that use that Starbucks, that's a dream, and you'd pay a premium. Or hey, Steve (male, 35, employed, based on his Facebook profile) was just hanging out in this Honda dealership. Ford, interested in advertising your latest offers to him? So yes, this is great for business. I don't think it's that great for consumers. You might get more WiFi hotspots, which is a plus, but you're giving up your privacy to use them. Also, if you prefer not to use Facebook, you might lose access to WiFi at your favorite locations.
ThomPete 13y ago
They use bing.
brjohnson 13y ago
>Google can know that most Honda Civic drivers in Chicago (for example) park next to McDonald's, and that their phones traveled inside the restaurant This is already in beta testing. http://marketingland.com/google-quietly-testing-offline-store-visits-tracking-64778 http://marketingland.com/google-quietly-testing-offline-stor... >Google is beta-testing a program that uses smartphone location data to determine when consumers visit stores, according to agency executives briefed on the program by Google employees. Google then connects these store visits to Google searches conducted on smartphones in an attempt to prove that its mobile ads do, in fact, work. Google is reportedly using location in the background (on Android and iOS) and its database of business locations (my guess) to determine when people visit stores. >Disabling location reporting also disables Google Now features tied to location, which may be undesirable. It also explains why they killed Skyhook. http://www.theverge.com/2011/05/12/google-android-skyhook-lawsuit-motorola-samsung/ http://www.theverge.com/2011/05/12/google-android-skyhook-la...
hoka 13y ago
Just on LTE-enabled cars? Think bigger! They're running a full fiber optic service; they have every packet coming into and out of your house. I, for one, welcome our gigabit overlords if only for the fact that they have Comcast, Cox, Time Warner, etc shaking in their boots.
msoad 13y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if Facebook gets to access to data about who purchases what and when I would sell all my transaction history for $5/month. Why should I care if their ads are getting better when I never pay attention to ads?
- joosters 13y ago
  I never pay attention to ads Just about everyone thinks this. But you're wrong. It's pretty much impossible not to be affected by advertising. Sure, you don't click on the links, but the product placement and brand awareness is not something that you can turn off!
  - fastball 13y ago
    Ok... so now I'm affected by ads that are actually relevant to my life... not sure how this is a bad thing.
  - tedd4u 13y ago
    Unless Flash / ads disabled ... ?
- angersock 13y ago
  You're not just selling your own transaction history, though--you are selling the other half of it as well. If I'm a private business or individual, I would prefer my customers not broadcast their affiliation--because some third-party source of data could be used to drive solicitation, or target advertising, or just in general be a nuisance. Remember, when you give up transaction history, you aren't just ratting on yourself--you're ratting on whomever you've done business with.
- guloizo 13y ago
  you don't understand how ads work, do you ? educate yourself about neuromarketing and read this 1920's book by Freud's nephew Edward Bernays. Also you don't understand how profiling works, do you ? A visible effect is ads, but it's not the only one and there are invisible effects. See NSA, crackers and http://online.wsj.com/public/page/what-they-know-digital-privacy.html http://online.wsj.com/public/page/what-they-know-digital-pri...
bluekitten 13y ago
I am happy that Apple doesn't need to encroach on user privacy to make money, atleast for now. All this giving away stuff for free and then storing private information forever to drive ads is getting very annoying.
lkamini 13y ago
brjohnson, not sure why your interesting comment was deleted, but here it is. >Google can know that most Honda Civic drivers in Chicago (for example) park next to McDonald's, and that their phones traveled inside the restaurant This is already in beta testing. http://marketingland.com/google-quietly-testing-offline-store-visits-tracking-64778 http://marketingland.com/google-quietly-testing-offline-stor... >Google is beta-testing a program that uses smartphone location data to determine when consumers visit stores, according to agency executives briefed on the program by Google employees. Google then connects these store visits to Google searches conducted on smartphones in an attempt to prove that its mobile ads do, in fact, work. Google is reportedly using location in the background (on Android and iOS) and its database of business locations (my guess) to determine when people visit stores. >Disabling location reporting also disables Google Now features tied to location, which may be undesirable. It also explains why they killed Skyhook. http://www.theverge.com/2011/05/12/google-android-skyhook-lawsuit-motorola-samsung/ http://www.theverge.com/2011/05/12/google-android-skyhook-la...
alan_cx 13y ago
What, google is now the standard of privacy? Its OK because Google do it or something similar. Yeah, beginning to want off this planet.
poorelise 13y ago
"Honda could use this information and market the Civic as "the best" car for eating at McDonald's." There might be a horror scenario in there somewhere, but this isn't it :-)

RankingMember 13y ago

Well that's an interesting one, dangling free wifi in exchange for joining/staying on Facebook. Personally, I'd just create a throwaway Facebook account to use for these.

sbarre 13y ago
Do you also have a regular Facebook account? Because it sounds like this could be tied to your mobile device, which means it uses the account you've conveniently provided in your OS profile, which would make this difficult...
- colinbartlett 13y ago
  That's an interesting point. I do not have a Facebook account, but I would consider making a fake one with fake name in order to use this. I probably wouldn't bother at all if it meant I had to remain logged in or connected to Facebook on my device all the time though.
- RankingMember 13y ago
  I do, but I wouldn't want to pollute it with silly carrot-and-stick-derived check-ins. I'd probably just de-link my FB account on my phone and use the dummy account, then re-link later, depending on how hard up I was for internet access and the expected wait time. Most people will just click "accept" without reading anything and status feeds will be flooded with check-ins.
mcpherrinm 13y ago
There is a "skip check in" link if you don't want to check in. Though it's unclear to me if you still need a Facebook account logged in.
- colinbartlett 13y ago
  "Skip Check In" will become the 2014 equivalent of 1999's "Skip Intro".

runn1ng 13y ago

This is evil on so many levels

gregcrv 13y ago
yes. the race to user information gathering is getting more and more crazy... and it's unfortunately not ready to end !
miguelrochefort 13y ago
Dat circle jerk.
nemothekid 13y ago
God save us from the evils of complentary free WiFi

swasheck 13y ago

> Customers simply check in to your location on Facebook to connect to free Wi-Fi wow. not only do they get you to sign up for an account, they also get more insight into your movements/migrations by forcing you to use a feature that (for now) you can disable. nobody says you have to use the service but we'll see how many more sell out for it. edit: read more How do I edit the Wi-Fi code my customers use to skip check-in? To edit your Wi-Fi code: Go to your Page and click Edit Page at the top of your admin panel. Select Edit Settings from the dropdown menu. Click on the More... tab and select Facebook Wi-Fi. Select Require Wi-Fi code and edit your Wi-Fi code in the box. You can also choose not to require a code by selecting Skip check-in link. Click Save Settings.

hrrsn 13y ago
If you don't like it, don't buy a Facebook WiFi router. For our business use case, this is perfect.
- swasheck 13y ago
  ... or don't go to a business that has purchased a Facebook WiFi router.
  - stock_toaster 13y ago
    Imagine hotels using this for their "free in room internet". I would seek lodging elsewhere.
- guloizo 13y ago
  There's no business case where telling a portion of customers or would be customers to go fuck themselves and kicking them out. Having a facebook only "free" internet is doing just that.

static_typed 13y ago

I can see the conversations now: "..and they trust you with their wife data?" "Dumbfucks".

mrfusion 13y ago

I'm confused what the end user experience is. Do you need a special app that somehow goes into your iPhone settings and adds a network? How would it work on laptops?

maaaats 13y ago
It probably works like many public WiFis do today: A normal "unprotected" WiFi that redirects all requests to a kind of "login" page until the user has accepted some terms etc.
objclxt 13y ago
I actually came across this in the wild last weekend (Phillz Coffee in Noe, SF, if anyone is interested). On a laptop it's no different to any other landing page on a public WiFi network, except you see a Facebook branded page asking you to check-in to connect (or to skip check-in, which I did, and it connected me straight away). Putting privacy concerns aside, it was easy to use and pretty painless.

mseebach 13y ago

This is a pretty good idea. It solves the coordination problem of not wanting to just provide free wifi forever to anyone by requiring a token "payment". It solves the identification problem which (unfortunately) is a requirement in many jurisdictions. And it helps non-technical business owners provide decent wifi.

zuckerfap 13y ago
There's nothing decent about WiFi that links your customers to the creepiest personal info vacuum on earth.
- mbillie1 13y ago
  Meh. Just filter what you put on Facebook, or don't use it. I'm not in favor of this, and I do find it creepy, but nobody holds a gun to your head and makes you log in and post status updates recapping your day. It's a trade off - the pleasure/whatever you get from FB vs the creepiness/unpleasantness from them having your information. If the balance tips, re-evaluate using the service.
  - samana 13y ago
    The "don't use it" argument falls apart when you realize that Facebook builds shadow profiles for people who don't use Facebook. http://www.zdnet.com/firm-facebooks-shadow-profiles-are-frightening-dossiers-on-everyone-7000017199/ http://www.zdnet.com/firm-facebooks-shadow-profiles-are-frig...
    - mbillie1 13y ago
      That stuff is creepy, but I always find claims of such-and-such a company stealing "my data" a little weird when that data turns out to be very public information about me such as my name, phone number and what I look like.
  - chrismarlow9 13y ago
    Post, don't post, doesn't matter. Your friends who do post will give enough information about you that not having an account wont matter. Nothing stops someone from tagging you in a photo. Nothing will stop people from posting "Hanging with XXX @ YYY". Putting 2 and 2 together: they now know who you are, types of places you visit, and what you look like. And you never made an account. After this your choices are: - get radical with friends about what they post about you - give in and use facebook - stop hanging out with your friends

sergiotapia 13y ago

Absolutely disgusting. These type of things just give me the willies. Everyday I see that Mr. Stallman was right, it's incredible!

jasonlfunk 13y ago
Why is this "absolutely disgusting"? It's good for Facebook, it's good for local businesses, and it completely optional for consumers. I don't see any problem here.
- zuckerfap 13y ago
  Just like all other "optional" features Facebook has provided in the past, they will inevitably figure out a way to hide the fact that using these hotspots checks you in, and probably spams your "friends" with a record of whatever you ate.
  - patrickread 13y ago
    Also if you look at the page, you can see you can change who you share the check-in with. It's just like Facebook app integrations: you can switch the share settings to "only me" if you want a private check-in if you're worried about spamming others.
    - lucb1e 13y ago
      Wait I thought he was joking. Facebook actually suggests that you share your current location with everyone?
      - encoderer 13y ago
        Maybe you're new to Facebook..
  - daeken 13y ago
    > they will inevitably figure out a way to hide the fact that using these hotspots checks you in Using the hotspots doesn't check you in; checking in allows you to use the hotspot. Seriously, read the page before spewing FUD.

pathy 13y ago

There are privacy concerns but overall I think it is a splendid idea, both for Facebook and for the businesses that choose to join. Your run of the mill free wifi is neither secure nor private to begin with and I don't see Facebook Wifi encroaching on privacy any more than currently available free wifi.

mbillie1 13y ago
This is a good point. Honestly the most annoying thing will be the polluting of fb feeds with checkins (something it is possible to ignore from others I believe, but not prevent from posting yourself if you check in on fb... which is the whole idea of course)
- pathy 13y ago
  That is a fair point, and it will be interesting to see how Facebook will deal with "feed pollution".
  - chaz 13y ago
    It already has this problem, and its solution was to default sort to "Top Stories" instead of "Latest Stories." A lot of accusations that it was a money-grubbing play for pay-for-performance, but I don't think they had much choice. They had to fix the problem of a few noisy people, pages or apps dominating users' feeds. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5320207 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5320207
zuckerfap 13y ago
Do you honestly believe facebook won't look for and find ways to encroach on privacy more than currently available free wifi does? Their entire mission is to encroach on privacy, and now they've got you connecting to their wifi hotspots at the gynecologist's office.
- pathy 13y ago
  Assuming you are a Facebook user they would know your location anyway, Facebook Wifi or non-Facebook wifi. Then again, considering your username I guess you aren't a fan of Facebook at all.

zx2c4 13y ago

If this becomes widespread, the phishing potential will be huge. Everybody is used to clicking through SSL warnings, or not having SSL at all when registering with hotspots. Rogue APs redux here we come.

mseebach 13y ago
Any moderately busy location is already abuzz with dodgy-looking access points. It appears you have to join using an app, presumably that app will check certs against a whitelist.

pherk 13y ago

This is so cool. It lets Facebook amass a massive amount of data about customer whereabouts and whatabouts. The incentive for merchants is quite compelling. However, Facebook needs to do a damn good job to convince the customers to use it.

kmfrk 13y ago
I don't know about that. Looks at Google DNS. The convenience of circumventing regional restrictions on things like The Pirate Bay often are enough for people to convert. I think it's going to go down rather well, assuming the shop owners have the savvy to implement it.
smackfu 13y ago
You connect to the wifi, it sends you to a login page with a Facebook button. You click it and you get access. Not too much friction for the customer.
jmathai 13y ago
Really? I don't think they do at all. I know for certain that if my wife were at Starbucks and had the option of "sign onto wifi using Facebook" that she would happily do it.

zuckerfap 13y ago

I bet Zuckerberg's palms are already starting to sweat just imagining how easily he can use this feature to get creepy on people.

ar7hur 13y ago

First I thought that FB would provide the hardware and internet connection to the business in exchange for so much information about their customers... But after reading their FAQ, I realize that no, FB does not provide anything. The deal is like "give me your customer info and your internet connection, I'll give you... maybe a few more likes on your page". Eventually for consumers like me who don't use FB, it's going to be a loss of service. Some businesses who had open Wifi will now require FB check-in to provide access. Sad.

objclxt 13y ago
> Some businesses who had open Wifi will now require FB check-in to provide access. Check-in isn't required to get access. My local coffee shop switched over to a Facebook WiFi point over the weekend (Phillz, who have a branch in Menlo Park so I assume must be piloting it). All that really changed for me as an end user was the old splash page got replaced with a Facebook page asking me if I'd like to check-in (along with a button to skip check in, which I used).
- ar7hur 13y ago
  So you don't even need to log in to Facebook? Even if that's the case, I'm afraid this will be tempting for the business to require check-in. Let's see if Phillz changes their settings!
- jmathai 13y ago
  It's not required but let's be honest - it'll be what happens. Pretty sure the average person would rather "check in" via Facebook than using the current "click this checkbox and continue". People trust and like Facebook. They don't trust or like GogoBoingo Wireless.
  - oceanplexian 13y ago
    Actually I'd trust Boingo more than Facebook as a platform. They've been around since 2001, Facebook since 2004.

bidev 13y ago

my 2 cents : people will create fake accounts and will use wifi for p2p

lucb1e 13y ago
Psst, don't tip them off

lightblade 13y ago

Then use checkins as loyalty card?

MartinCron 13y ago
That seems like something that can already happen or is already happening. I saw a sign for 10% off your order if you're the FourSquare mayor a few years ago. It's tacky, but most loyalty card things feel that way to me.
lucb1e 13y ago
And after that Facebook implements a feature so that supermarkets and other businesses don't need to give out cards anymore to track what you buy? That sounds pretty brilliant. Then they have everything you like (or visit when there is a FB Like button) (probably also implies political views), probably your school background and places you worked and lived, places you've traveled to (FB WiFi!) or came by and your phone automatically connected with its known MAC address (more FB WiFi!), comments you posted, loads of private conversations with friends and family, and of course your entire social graph. And, if you cared to fill it out, your DoB, books you read, movies you've seen, photos of you and your friends (probably during various activities), and events you go/went to. Lovely. Guys, the NSA can quit! All the FBI has to do is submit a data request and they're golden. Lots of laughs while they sift through your conversations, searching for what they are actually looking for. On a more serious note, even if Facebook is not evil at all, and let's say for the moment that they aren't, that is a scary amount of information in one place. It would be a shame if anyone hacked it. Or legally obtained it. Or someone simply made a mistake and gave it out to someone impersonating law enforcement.

Nikolas0 13y ago

Sounds like trouble for zoottle.com but I guess their product is a little different (connected to other networks as well, etc.)

dangrossman 13y ago

I'd consider advertising Facebook on a wifi hotspot as soon as they offer to pay for it by assuming liability for customers using that hotspot to share a bunch of film and TV show torrents. As long as courts keep pretending that an IP address is the same as a person, it doesn't make sense for small businesses with small pockets to offer free wifi.

natrius 13y ago
Pretty much every coffee shop and at least half of the restaurants I walk into offer wifi, so I think the problem is smaller than you claim.
shin_lao 13y ago
It's pretty easy to limit the bitrate by client. In addition with Facebook wifi, people might be less inclined to bad behavior as they use their facebook account (granted, they could create a bogus one, but still, that makes them traceable).
IvyMike 13y ago
But those cases have mostly been open unauthenticated wifi, no? If I'm understanding this, this provides the courts a traceable way to go after an authenticated person (or at least, a facebook account) rather than just an IP address. I think the courts that have pretended that "IP=person" have done so because they don't have anything better.
Kiro 13y ago
Most cafés and restaurants offer free WiFi so not sure what you're on about.

dade_ 13y ago

This has been available for several months now. To answer a few questions I've seen, it uses a typical captive portal approach, so an unencrypted WiFi hotspot. Upon connection, you are redirected to an encrypted site with embedded Facebook account verification, at which point you can go wherever the Internet service lets you. The router typically has content filtering and also tracks Internet usage (bandwidth, visited sites, etc) as well as limits on visit length etc. It is a useful option for merchants, as customers expect WiFi for free. Further, they expect it to be fast and that doesn't expose them to security risks. In other words, this gets expensive and difficult to manage. There are great solutions out there already, but they cost money - so the business case is based on marketing data. Email authentication would work, but it is difficult to gain much insight about customers, also you would need to give people access to their email server to setup their authentication. SMS doesn't work for people who don't have cell phones, or if there is poor coverage - also marketing data would be very difficult to gain. So, Social Media authentication (Facebook) turns out to be a really great option. Obviously you have the choice not to use the service, but this isn't going away. Industry codes of conduct need to be set and I don't think they have. Privacy laws need to be understood and enforced. Retailer and coffee shop activities with this data haven't caused me much concern, but Facebook is another story.

oceanplexian 13y ago
If your business depends on WiFi (e.g. Coffee Shop), this could potentially hurt business. Only ~50-70% of US Internet users use Facebook and that is dropping. As a business owner I'd be concerned about alienation. Facebook is far from universal and many avoid it (especially the younger crowd).
- loumf 13y ago
  Looks like there's a way to skip the checkin with a code that you get from the business.
- telecuda 13y ago
  A hybrid approach would be nice for your example: check in on Facebook to get online yourself, or go ask the barista for the WiFi password

acjacobson 13y ago

I am not really sure why so many people here are alarmed at the privacy implications. Google or Apple and your ISP / Telecom already know where you are at all times unless you are one of the very few people that don't carry a cell phone. Your ISP already knows every site that you look at from your home computer - how exactly is this different? Why is Facebook inherently any more or less trustworthy than any of these other companies? They are just happen to also know where you are when you optionally check in?

ececconi 13y ago

My friend owns a small tutoring business. They give out free wifi to all of their students. I think having this as an option would be a great way for them to build awareness of their local business.

vrypan 13y ago

http://www.zoottle.com/ http://www.zoottle.com/ does this, but gives you more control and is not limited to facebook login of course. It also gives you detailed stats (I didn't see any mention of getting visitor stats by FB wifi).

michaelmior 13y ago
The fact that their plans appear include a certain number of Facebook likes seems very sketchy. However, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and just assume that this number is the number of users who are given the option to like your page.

trevmckendrick 13y ago

Other than Wifi, does the user get anything out of this deal? Is another free hotspot worth giving up your data? It would to me if they made wifi ubiquitous and drop dead easy to use. That said, I don't think wifi is in the plans of the future. Eventually some other constant data connection will take its place.

nextstep 13y ago

Hell no. Business owners, please don't use this for wifi in your stores! I refuse to use Facebook to leave a trail of where I am physically just to use the wifi.

maaaats 13y ago
If you bother to read the page, you will see that owners still can set an "access token" (password) they can give users to log in.

jglazko 13y ago

They lost me at "Check in to Facebook". Anything that requires me to use Facebook is a non-starter.

zerop 13y ago

Free wifi would actually help Google more..

angersock 13y ago

Jesus Christ, have we all learned nothing? It's a swarm of lemmings being led by blind moles. Fucking awful.

debacle 13y ago

This could be genius if Facebook puts the right momentum behind it.

cpeterso 13y ago

Does "Facebook WiFi" allow users to access any web content or just Facebook? The product page only describes how users and businesses can use a variety of Facebook features. For many people, Facebook access alone would be good enough.

pcl 13y ago

I wonder if they're doing anything with MAC address correlation to track devices that do not join their net.

carlob 13y ago

Real conversation happened to me in an ice cream shop with a home-brewed facebook captive portal in Cambridge, MA. me: Excuse me, is there a way to log into the wifi if you don't have a facebook account? clerk: No, we've had a lots people doing illegal stuff on our wifi, so we need to verify their identity. me: I understand, however I don't have a facebook account. Would you like to verify my identity with a photo id? clerk: No, you'll need to get a facebook account. me: I have serious concerns about my privacy. I will not make one just for the sake of getting online here. clerk: Just make one with a fake name! me: …

joeblau 13y ago
The clerk must not be familiar with Facebook's "Real Name" policy. I think that asking a store clerk is probably never going to get you anywhere though. They are the least likely people to be involved with technical decisions. That's something that would be better taken up with the business owner. What's sad is that the business owner would probably be willing to sacrifice your business for the perceived benefit that he/she is getting from Facebook's WiFi.
- mononcqc 13y ago
  The irony is rather that the excuse they provide is that they want to verify people's identity to prevent abuse, but then openly recommend using a fake identity to log on.
  - sean-duffy 13y ago
    The person in charge wanted to verify people's identities. The store clerk just wants to deal with the customer, his recommendation does not necessarily reflect the opinions of his employer.
  - pbhjpbhj 13y ago
    The shop management request a FB identifier as this reduces abuse of their wifi. If that didn't work they probably wouldn't use it - it's basically a way to require work of those who want to log on anonymously, probably enough work that it's easier to just go elsewhere. The shop staff suggested using a faked ID - but they didn't suggest that this should still be the persons only ID for Facebook. That was their solution as an individual. They're not even particularly contrary as practical solutions go - the first policy is presented to the public, it works to reduce wifi abuse. The second "policy" is not presented and works to try and avoid confrontations.

Zigurd 13y ago

My reaction is "Brilliant, daring!" and "Why did it have to be Facebook? I'm trying to get away from Facebook." Time to create a fake Facebook identity.

al2o3cr 13y ago

Wow. Given that the default FB setting is "HTTPS off", you might as well just pass around a note with your FB login + password to everybody else in the business.

archivator 13y ago
Facebook has been https by default since July 2013. https://www.facebook.com/notes/facebook-engineering/secure-browsing-by-default/10151590414803920 https://www.facebook.com/notes/facebook-engineering/secure-b...

edwhitesell 13y ago

So, since FB "owns" the user, I wonder if that means this service is compliant with CALEA [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CALEA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CALEA] or whatever the most current version is. It was a mess to deal with back in the early 2000's while operating WiFi networks. If FB is not compliant, maybe the government will make an example out of FB when they are unable to comply with wiretap requests. IIRC, the fines could be upwards of $20k/day of non-compliance after receiving a warrant for a specific user's data.

bearjew 13y ago

Forget about logging in for wifi. This is a direct competitor to Nomi. Facebook will now know whenever your MAC Address walks by a storefront with one of these routers, regardless if you have an account. For those who have installed the app (the majority of the country) FB will be able to match the MAC ID to your account. In addition to simply foot traffic walking by the store, the router will track information on when you are actually in the store, how long you stayed there, and how frequently you visit. Eventually those with FB on their phone will have ads pushed to them when they pass one of these routers. I imagine it wouldn't just be for stores with the routers but those within the immediate vicinity. Of course none of the data collected will be shared with the storeowners until they are sold the ads by facebook.

angersock 13y ago
Fuck me, you've got an excellent point there sir/madam.

dignified_devil 13y ago

Isn't there a direct relationship between bandwidth speeds and mobile tethering usage? Is it safe to assume that this (free wifi) will become obsolete within the next 5 years?

dignified_devil 13y ago

Isn't there a direct relationship between bandwidth speeds and mobile tethering usage? Is it safe to assume that this (free wifi) will become obsolete within the next 5 years?

blueskin_ 13y ago

Another way for facebook to datamine people's personal details. Wonderful.

mergy 13y ago

Up next: Facebook public toilets. "Like = dump"

lucb1e 13y ago

Well, good thing I have a few accounts handy.

oniTony 13y ago

Facebook WiFi doesn't take over HTTPS traffic, so I can continue to browse HN comments without Facebook signin. Actually following links doesn't work as well on average (even with HTTPS Everywhere).

ahugon 13y ago

This is really cool. Wifi being unavailable "in the wild" is something that continues to be an annoyance; if this actually starts being adopted by businesses, I think it could have a massive impact on who patronizes which establishments. Ironically, I also view this as potentially helping Google with Chromebook sales... the more prevalent WiFi becomes, the more useful a Chromebook becomes.

zuckerfap 13y ago

It's always interesting to me how, the more an entity has shown itself to disregard the privacy and rights of it's users/customers/citizens/etc in the past, the more people are willing to extend the benefit of the doubt that they won't continue to do so on new ventures. This will be abused, they will overstep massively at some point, people will complain, then they'll take a cosmetic baby step backwards, and possibly provide their users with a pixelated cow icon to make up for it... then continue on their way. I'm guessing everyone has already forgotten about the "we read your posts, even if you don't post them" thing recently? http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-facebook-can-track-users-unpublished-posts-20131217,0,7847582.story http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-facebook...

kimonos 13y ago

No thanks! I still prefer to use my pocket wifi..

gonzo 13y ago

Yet more "Pay Toilet" WiFi.

starnix17 13y ago

Philz Coffee (at least the one at Golden Gate and Larkin) has this. Before you can access any non-HTTPS pages you get a Facebook page with a big "Check-In" button and a very small "Skip" button.

jigneshg 13y ago

This is amazing news for both, customer and small businesses. Both can get benefited from this service. I always do check-in when i visit local store and also publish my review. This will help my friends to know about such local stores and also help business owners to find new customers !

guloizo 13y ago

So facebook has launched the next step in their attack on the internet, it's sad that they are succeeding where microsoft failed two decades ago with their attempt to replace the internet with their proprietary microsoft network.