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The main problem I have with this article is that it doesn't give specific examples of when torture is used, especially by the show's protagonists. I love both
by wmgries 13y ago
The main problem I have with this article is that it doesn't give specific examples of when torture is used, especially by the show's protagonists. I love both Fringe and the X-Files, but I've actually more recently seen the X-Files (I'm on Season 7) so Fringe isn't exactly fresh in my mind.
The main scene I remember where one of the protagonists resorts to torture is in the final season where Peter tortures a captured Observer to figure out how to put together a time portal stabilizer the Observers are using for transport. But if I remember the scene correctly, Peter doesn't even want information - he's just really pissed off at the Observers for killing his daughter. Even though this scene shows one of the protagonists doing something wrong, I question whether it was really trying to get the watcher's approval for the his actions. If anything, it was trying to show disapproval for his actions by depicting him as mentally unstable. I'm not saying that there aren't more scenes where the protagonists resort to torture, just that I can't remember them.
A further question that I have is what exactly torture is in a sci-fi show. There are at least two episodes where the Fringe gang uses a device that reanimates a recently deceased enemy so they can get the necessary information to stop an impending attack. Is a scenario like this torture? And what about when one of the Observers attempts to read Walter's mind causing him a great deal of pain? This seems to be torture, but would the shows viewers think that governments should torture because Fringe depicted a character reading another character's mind?
Finally, Ntrails makes a fantastic point. Typically, torture is not depicted as a critical story piece in Fringe. Torture occasionally makes appearances, but many of the shows fans can't even remember when and how often they were used. What does that say about the "legitimizing" force of depiction of torture in Fringe?
- jasonlotito 13y agoI watched that episode last night. It wasn't propaganda. It was meant to be chilling. The difference between the way Peter and Olivia handled the death of their child is supposed to be stark. What's even more critical is that the 'torture' fails. The final act, him cutting open and killing the observer is still shocking, and it isn't glorified or seen as right. It's clearly the first steps down a darker path.
- aychedee 13y agoReally? I'm the OP. I just binge watched all of Fringe and it's jam packed full of torture. The very fact that you don't remember it is perhaps part of the point I was making. It's very much just the done thing. Torture doesn't have to be conducted in a dungeon with hot irons. It's any situation where you cause serious distress to a helpless person you control. I would argue that fans not being able to remember torture scenes is my point precisely. Oh, it's so blase and mundane that you don't even remember? Oh the government's torturing people you say? So what? I see that shit every day. It's not that bad... etc.
- wmgries 13y agoI'm interested now. Not enough to rewatch the entire show front to back, but how about you give some examples of the protagonists using torture (like episode numbers)? When the bad guys use torture in a tv show or movie, that shouldn't count towards what you are claiming - only when the good guys uses it.
- owenmarshall 13y ago>When the bad guys use torture in a tv show or movie, that shouldn't count towards what you are claiming - only when the good guys uses it. What an odd view. Whenever anyone uses torture to successfully extract information - bad guy or good guy - we are getting the not-so-subtle message that "torture works". Torture doesn't work. And if you're so habituated to the message that "torture is effective" to the point that you don't even notice torture, well...
- wmgries 13y agoWhen a bad guy uses torture, we get the message that he's a bad guy. It doesn't really matter if the information the bad guy gets is good or not because the viewer is not sympathetic to the bad guy. Others have made this point upstream, but essentially, you have a great case for torture being legitimized IF the good guys are using it and are portrayed as heroes for doing so.
- 13y ago
- aychedee 13y agoUrgh. You're making me do homework? Lame. And no. I don't have to show only scenes where the "good guys" are torturing someone. That wasn't my point. I was talking about the normalisation of torture. I wasn't trying to say that all shows had become 24 or something. I never called these shows propaganda (like 24 obviously was). That's HN saying that. I was just saying that they all contribute to the normalisation of torture. Anyway: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Same_Old_Story http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Same_Old_Story - Victims are paralysed with a muscle relaxant and then have their faces peeled off. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Arrival_(Fringe) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Arrival_(Fringe) - Multiple victims are strapped to tables and tortured. Three scenes in all I believe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cure_(Fringe) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cure_(Fringe) - Woman strapped to a table, she's a test patient being tortured with painful drugs, begging them to stop. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bound_(Fringe) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bound_(Fringe) - Olivia strapped to a table and tortured. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_Child_(Fringe) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_Child_(Fringe) - Woman are paralysed and then slowly killed. Well that's the first season. I'm off for dinner now. If you want to try something similar for the first season of the X-Files please do! (Sorry couldn't reply to your reply, I think it's too deeply nested or something)
- pbhjpbhj 13y ago[meta: I think the nesting is some sort of delay system to prevent a rapid back-and-fore argument. If you click "link" however it appears you can bypass the lack of a reply option.]
- eru 13y agoClicking "link" is no faster than reloading, as far as I can tell.
- Jtsummers 13y agoClicking link is immediate, and the delay for an active "reply" link can be minutes. The longest I've seen (and recall the time on) was at least 5 minutes, possibly pushing 10. In an active conversation that's a long time.