4 ms·

Yes, also there tends to be a stigma against using vacation time until you've been at a job for a while. You might have worked for 6 months but the other people

by Touche 13y ago

Yes, also there tends to be a stigma against using vacation time until you've been at a job for a while. You might have worked for 6 months but the other people in the company still see you as the new guy. This stigma, coupled with changing jobs semi-frequently has led me to not having a week-off vacation for over 2 years. And before that it was probably another 2 since my previous one. I have taken a few long-weekends though. Point is, there's always a reason to hold off on the vacation and waiting for the "perfect timing" isn't a good idea.

michaelochurch 13y ago
The problem is that it's hard for most people to tell if someone's capable and belongs on the team in the first few months. Since ability and contribution are hard to measure, most human groups assess people based on shared suffering ("being a team player"). That creates a lot of the vacation-hostility that, after a while, people start internalizing. It's ridiculously stupid and utterly counterproductive. Total productivity is actually maximized (for most of the work we do) around 6 weeks off per year.
- jorgem 13y ago
  > Total productivity is actually maximized (for most of the work we do) around 6 weeks off per year. How do you measure this?
byoung2 13y ago
This stigma, coupled with changing jobs semi-frequently has led me to not having a week-off vacation for over 2 years Pro tip from someone who has worked for 4 companies in 6 years, and taken 6 weeks per year of vacation: once you have been offered the job, tell them you have a vacation already planned (approved by your last job) and it can't be rescheduled. This gets you an exemption from rules like no vacation during the first 6 months of employment, and it sometimes also lets you get your 2 weeks upfront, instead of having to accrue them. This is also your opportunity to get a longer vacation approved (e.g. my last job offered 3 weeks, or I had 3 weeks banked up that I had to use).
- philsnow 13y ago
  If I were to leave my current job, my employer would pay me for all my saved vacation at same rate as my salary. Why should I expect the next employer to give me the three weeks of vacation that "are coming to me", if I've already taken cash for them? Is your situation different ?
  - joezydeco 13y ago
    I've done the same as byoung2 here. He's simply asking the new company for an exception to the normal vacation rule. Instead of waiting until the days are all accrued, he wants to use them ahead of time. If the new hire is a great match and the company is eager to have them on board, allowing him to virtually start a few weeks later than planned isn't that big of a problem. Or if he disappears for 3 weeks a little while after he's started, so be it. You can ask for (and receive) a hell of a lot more out of a new employer before your start date than you can after it.
    - byoung2 13y ago
      You can ask for (and receive) a hell of a lot more out of a new employer before your start date than you can after it. Exactly. Few employers will approve a 3 week vacation when you've only been on the job 2 months, but if you tell them the vacation is already scheduled, they pretty much have to grant it. @philsnow My point was mainly getting the vacation approved in the first place. I wouldn't push my luck by asking them to front me the 2 weeks, but half of my companies offered it (you just start negative, and by the end of the year you have 0 days).
    - mattm 13y ago
      > You can ask for (and receive) a hell of a lot more out of a new employer before your start date than you can after it. Yes. The most power an employee will almost ever have in the relationship is after they've offered you the job but before you've accepted it/started working.
  - tomkarlo 13y ago
    It's just a part of the comp negotiation, the same as a starting bonus. It's not a rollover from the old job and it's irrelevant if you got paid out for it there. Lots of companies have mechanisms to let employees go into "vacation debt" of 1-2 weeks when needed. Asking to take vacation may cost them exactly zero, since they're going to pay you those days eventually anyway.
caprad 13y ago
What form are you seeing this Stigma, because in all my jobs I have never felt this at all? And two of those jobs I have vacations organized before I joined, and at one place I was there for one week before leaving for 3 weeks. Never felt any stigma at all?
- proksoup 13y ago
  Sometimes the stigma is there and it's not picked up on. I'm a "doesn't pick up on the taboos I'm violating" sort of person.
- boie0025 13y ago
  Some of the perceived "stigma" may be just guilt as well. At my last job, I took a week off, and felt guilty.. I said something, and was reminded "It's you're time, that's what vacations are for". If my boss hadn't told me that, I may have just perceived that guilt as stigma.

by Touche 13y ago

michaelochurch 13y ago

The problem is that it's hard for most people to tell if someone's capable and belongs on the team in the first few months. Since ability and contribution are hard to measure, most human groups assess people based on shared suffering ("being a team player"). That creates a lot of the vacation-hostility that, after a while, people start internalizing. It's ridiculously stupid and utterly counterproductive. Total productivity is actually maximized (for most of the work we do) around 6 weeks off per year.

jorgem 13y ago
> Total productivity is actually maximized (for most of the work we do) around 6 weeks off per year. How do you measure this?

byoung2 13y ago

This stigma, coupled with changing jobs semi-frequently has led me to not having a week-off vacation for over 2 years Pro tip from someone who has worked for 4 companies in 6 years, and taken 6 weeks per year of vacation: once you have been offered the job, tell them you have a vacation already planned (approved by your last job) and it can't be rescheduled. This gets you an exemption from rules like no vacation during the first 6 months of employment, and it sometimes also lets you get your 2 weeks upfront, instead of having to accrue them. This is also your opportunity to get a longer vacation approved (e.g. my last job offered 3 weeks, or I had 3 weeks banked up that I had to use).

philsnow 13y ago
If I were to leave my current job, my employer would pay me for all my saved vacation at same rate as my salary. Why should I expect the next employer to give me the three weeks of vacation that "are coming to me", if I've already taken cash for them? Is your situation different ?
- joezydeco 13y ago
  I've done the same as byoung2 here. He's simply asking the new company for an exception to the normal vacation rule. Instead of waiting until the days are all accrued, he wants to use them ahead of time. If the new hire is a great match and the company is eager to have them on board, allowing him to virtually start a few weeks later than planned isn't that big of a problem. Or if he disappears for 3 weeks a little while after he's started, so be it. You can ask for (and receive) a hell of a lot more out of a new employer before your start date than you can after it.
  - byoung2 13y ago
    You can ask for (and receive) a hell of a lot more out of a new employer before your start date than you can after it. Exactly. Few employers will approve a 3 week vacation when you've only been on the job 2 months, but if you tell them the vacation is already scheduled, they pretty much have to grant it. @philsnow My point was mainly getting the vacation approved in the first place. I wouldn't push my luck by asking them to front me the 2 weeks, but half of my companies offered it (you just start negative, and by the end of the year you have 0 days).
  - mattm 13y ago
    > You can ask for (and receive) a hell of a lot more out of a new employer before your start date than you can after it. Yes. The most power an employee will almost ever have in the relationship is after they've offered you the job but before you've accepted it/started working.
- tomkarlo 13y ago
  It's just a part of the comp negotiation, the same as a starting bonus. It's not a rollover from the old job and it's irrelevant if you got paid out for it there. Lots of companies have mechanisms to let employees go into "vacation debt" of 1-2 weeks when needed. Asking to take vacation may cost them exactly zero, since they're going to pay you those days eventually anyway.

caprad 13y ago

What form are you seeing this Stigma, because in all my jobs I have never felt this at all? And two of those jobs I have vacations organized before I joined, and at one place I was there for one week before leaving for 3 weeks. Never felt any stigma at all?

proksoup 13y ago
Sometimes the stigma is there and it's not picked up on. I'm a "doesn't pick up on the taboos I'm violating" sort of person.
boie0025 13y ago
Some of the perceived "stigma" may be just guilt as well. At my last job, I took a week off, and felt guilty.. I said something, and was reminded "It's you're time, that's what vacations are for". If my boss hadn't told me that, I may have just perceived that guilt as stigma.