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Steam Removes Game 'Order Of War: Challenge' From User Libraries

109 points by mjn 13y ago

TrainedMonkey 13y ago
Anyone got original license for that game? Did it include clause that could have allowed for anything like that?
bjz_ 13y ago
Always on DRM is also a threat to the preservation of artistic works for future generations. Folks still play the early Civilization and Sim City titles even after all these years.
- trycatch 13y ago
  All server-based MMOs will be canceled sooner or later. Dead sites will be preserved by the Internet Archive, but dead MMOs will be known for future generations only in Let's plays and secondary sources. Relevant article, "MMO graveyard": http://mmohuts.com/editorials/mmo-graveyard http://mmohuts.com/editorials/mmo-graveyard
  - nknighthb 13y ago
    I play a server-based MMO that effectively ceased to exist over a decade ago. Third-party reimplementations of many MMO servers are thriving.
    - byuu 13y ago
      > I play a server-based MMO that effectively ceased to exist over a decade ago. Second Age, In Por Ylem or Forever? :P
  - girvo 13y ago
    Which, interestingly, is why one of the head developers who worked on Warhammer: Age of Reckoning (the MMO, that was quite enjoyable) wants the debug dev version cleaned up and release: It removed all the online content, and just let you take a character through the entire world, all offline. He wants to do that, as a way of preserving the world. It might not have the content, but its something, and an interesting take on it!
    - markeganfuller 13y ago
      Got a link? That sounds interesting.
      - Semaphor 13y ago
        Some googling turned up his blog post: http://shinytoys.org/blog/war-in-a-bottle http://shinytoys.org/blog/war-in-a-bottle
- __david__ 13y ago
  …and Asteroids and Pacman via MAME and other emulators. Those are even older.
TempleOSV2 13y ago
The purpose of life is to enjoy God's company. If you pick random passages, everything comes up eventually. Every person has to decide how serious God was when He said stuff and if they will obey. Sometimes, you do. Mostly just enjoy His company and grow. God says... C:\TAD\Text\HUCKFINN.TXT agements! Admission 25 cents; children and servants, 10 cents. Then we went loafing around town. The stores and houses was most all old, shackly, dried up frame concerns that hadn't ever been painted; they was set up three or four foot above ground on stilts, so as to be out of reach of the water when the river was over-flowed. The houses had little gardens around them, but they didn't seem to raise hardly anything in them but jimpson-weeds, and sunflowers, and ash piles, and old curled-up boot
tomphoolery 13y ago
No refunds? Really?!? The guy who sold me my bong has a better fucking return policy than that.
- SwellJoe 13y ago
  Bongs can't be returned for health and safety reasons.
  - ryguytilidie 13y ago
    I would argue that "no returns" is a lot more lenient than someone stealing the stuff you bought from them and not giving you a refund...
- fletchowns 13y ago
  The main appeal of the game was apparently the multi-player, which isn't going to be that great if nobody bought the thing. You can't expect a refund for this type of purchase from either Steam or the studio that developed it, that is ridiculous. They shouldn't have removed it from people's libraries though, and the developer should have released one last patch that disabled the DRM and let you run your own server.
  - MichaelApproved 13y ago
    Running your server is probably too much to ask for since their server is likely integrated ito many of their other systems and the code is probably something they want to keep out of public hands BUT I like your idea of one last patch for DRM free version. Online will no longer work but at least single player would.
    - axefrog 13y ago
      As with WoW, Ultima Online and various other MMO's, unauthorized servers tend to be written from scratch using an analysis of incoming and outgoing client/server traffic. Nobody would expect Square Enix to release their server software, just simply to disable the DRM so that others can play the game and attempt to write their own server software if they choose.
drawkbox 13y ago
The root problem was them shutting it down because the game client hit their servers and they were shutting them down. Running servers is costly. But game developers should do an update or at least provide a way to turn off multiplayer or allow others to run servers when the game is finished. There isn't really a system for this yet but there needs to be, multiplayer support ends for most games eventually. The good ones allow it to live on in communities if they so desire. And killing single player missions for DRM sake highlights the problem. Good networking middleware and cloud services for this could solve the problem rather than every game company remaking this over and over and having to deal with this.
- tokenizerrr 13y ago
  There's a pretty decent system. Self hosted game servers, and a patch to disable the DRM once the official servers go belly under. Unfortunately few developers care enough about their users to do such.
  - GrinningFool 13y ago
    It's not so simple as "few developers care enough". Do you seriously think that there are a signficant number of game developers who just turn around and say "fuck them, they're only our customers anyway"? It generally comes down to restrictions placed by the publisher. Due to agreements with the publisher[1], the developing company can't just release a patch to disable DRM whenever they want - they are contractually obligated to not release anything without publisher approval. And publishers are very, very reluctant to approve disabling DRM. [1] Source: contacts and contract work in the industry, and got to deal with the second-hand effects of publisher restrictions myself.
Silhouette 13y ago
There is a broader issue here than just gaming, too. Many high-end applications now have obnoxious DRM/copy protection schemes that require varying levels of Internet connectivity to work. I have asked a reseller about how this operates if the original developer of the $X,000/seat software my business relies on goes under, and they basically laughed my question off, saying that would never happen. I have also, in an entirely different context, had some knowledge of legal actions involving that same developer, and I don't share the reseller's faith in their guaranteed longevity. There have been occasional court cases on these matters, and at least in Europe the courts mostly seem to have taken the view that if it looks like a purchase (for example, if there was a reasonable expectation that once money changed hands the new holder of the software would be able to use it indefinitely) then it must be respected as such. Still, I wonder at what point primary legislation is going to become necessary. Copyright reform has been vigorously opposed by Big Media and mostly successfully so far, but when you start hitting large numbers of customers in the wallet and they can't just pirate their way out of it and get away with it any more, sooner or later I suspect something has to give.
- kostyk 13y ago
  yeah, ask the guy in 2007 if Lehman Brothers would go bankrupt next year, he would think you escaped mental clinic.
- abengoam 13y ago
  That's why enterprise customers demand source code escrow clauses, for protection against that same scenario.
- mjn 13y ago
  In enterprise (and academic) settings a traditional approach has been to let the client run the license server. That's how Matlab works, for example: a network-licensed copy won't start up unless it can "phone home", but typically it phones home to the license server run by the client, on the client's network, not to centralized DRM servers run by the vendor. I know for consumer software things are slowly moving towards centralized-DRM as the norm, but I thought for enterprise applications this kind of self-hosted license server was still the norm. Maybe not?
namers 13y ago
I'm pretty sure their EULA mentions that you agree to such terms, so there is not much buyers can legally do. The simple solution is to do a quick scan of the EULA( tools to help exists ) of the next game you would like to play for a longer period to and then if the it includes these ridiculous terms simply don't buy it.
- anonymousab 13y ago
  The contractual legality of and superceding of consumer rights by videogame EULAs seems to vary on a country by country basis, if not province by province/state by state.
- gommm 13y ago
  Even if it's included in EULA, it doesn't mean that this would be allowed in a lot of jurisdictions. A lot of clauses from most EULA are not applicable everywhere. I think there'd be a case in most european countries.
  - namers 13y ago
    My point was that instead of getting screwed, you should not buy the game, this way you hurt them them most. If they break some local laws what are you, the buyer, going to do really.
    - maaku 13y ago
      Games aren't some fungible commodity you can shop around for. If you want to play that game, what else can you do?
      - namers 13y ago
        Keep your integrity.
      - forrestthewoods 13y ago
        A single game isn't a commodity, but entertainment is. There is an almost unlimited amount of entertainment available for only a handful of dollars.
forrestthewoods 13y ago
The article does not make clear if the single player aspects of the game were running on the now defunct servers or not. There's a pretty big difference in "DRM" and "requires remote hardware running server code".
- tommis 13y ago
  the article said the game had always-on drm, even for singe player game. The company who made the game shutdown the servers, making it impossible to play either multi- or singleplayer, so valve simply removed a non-functional game from the library
goggles99 13y ago
LOL... steam and all their holier than thou blog posts about being open and better than Microsoft - That was never anything more than a rant about the Windows 8 built in app market that they were afraid would undercut their profits and dominance (a scheme against competition). They are neither open nor respect rights of ownership. AFAIK, Microsoft themselves have never forcefully removed an app from Windows in this manner.
- tokenizerrr 13y ago
  Did you even read the article? The game was to become literally unplayable because its developers (Square Enix) decided to pull the plug on the DRM and multiplayer servers instead of handing out a DRM-disabling patch.
  - mortyseinfeld 13y ago
    So you're justifying Steam deleting the game, even though you won't come out and say it.
- freehunter 13y ago
  Microsoft certainly did remove apps from Windows even after they are purchased. They had Crackdown on WP7 as a tower defense game. They shut down the servers and the game disappeared, never to be seen again. Really pissed me off. They also refused to update their Texas Hold'em game, so when I moved to WP8, the game I had purchased disappeared.
  - goggles99 13y ago
    FYI, When someone says "Windows" they generally are talking about a PC desktop. Not a phone version. I am guessing that you probably already know this, but want to push any angle for a rebuttal. I am referring to Windows 8 specifically (yes the PC version) because this is the version that Steam was vying as evil.
    - freehunter 13y ago
dm2 13y ago
I recently purchased a game from Steam (Max Payne 3) and after I download the full 30 gig game it tells me "cannot connect to key server". After several emails with their support they inform me that Steam doesn't have enough CD keys, yet they continue selling the game on their website. It has been about a week now and I still cannot even play this game. Plus, not only does that require a Steam account but you also have to have a Rockstar account. What has PC gaming become?
- lsh 13y ago
  I bought it on sale months ago, booted it up and was told I had to sign up for this Rockstar account and haven't got passed that yet. I'm sure it's a wonderful game.
  - dm2 13y ago
    I've only played single player but it's a pretty decent game, lots of cutsceens and loading screens though.
- voltagex_ 13y ago
  I keep a library of cracks for games that I own on Steam, it's one way to ensure I have access to what I bought. It's looking like it will be needed for lots of GFWL games now, too.
- blub 13y ago
  If you want to enjoy PC gaming buy from gog.com, I think that's the only guarantee that it won't have some crap DRM. If you want to play recent titles you're out of luck...
  - karlmdavis 13y ago
    Also Humble Bundle.
    - jhasse 13y ago
      Humble ->Indie<- Bundle. There are Humble Bundles with DRM.
qwerta 13y ago
We had similar problem: InstallShield is very expensive software. The company which sells it was renamed, and they changed domain name together with license activation server... So we could no longer activate software we bought. Suggested solution was to buy new version. Pretty bad since we could not make new build without this software. Luckily for us we had everything virtualized already (not so common a few years ago).
- StavrosK 13y ago
  Hah, nice suggested solution there. I've been wondering why NSIS isn't more popular, it was fantastic when I was using it, very light, fast and extensible.
  - qwerta 13y ago
    NSIS is light years ahead of InstallShield. But all sucks compared to APT or other Linux installation systems.
K0nserv 13y ago
The response to these news are surprisingly meek, but I guess we can attribute that to the game in question not having a large player base. I for one think this behaviour is unacceptable and it destroys gaming as an industry. In 20 years will the teenagers/kids of today have no way of playing the games they grew up with simply because the servers have been turned off? Patching DRM out of the game and releasing server software to allow people to host their own servers should be industry standard in these cases. This is must surely be the result of politics at a much higher level than the studio, I don't think any studio likes to see their game just disappear of the surface of the earth just like that; after all that would be the equivalent of murdering ones child.
MichaelGG 13y ago
Aren't you allowed to circumvent DRM for certain fair use cases? Certainly disabling DRM on the single-player parts would fall under that, wouldn't it? Valve would earn respect back by releasing a crack/replacement DRM that uses Steam.
JeffL 13y ago
I don't think the issue is Steam deleting the game so much, since this game had always on DRM and the servers were going down. It makes sense to delete the game rather than dleaving an inoperable game around. The issue is more the always on DRM and the idea that people pay for a game upfront that requires the servers to be running. It would make more sense if a game that you buy will always run to some extent without servers, or else, if servers are required, then don't charge upfront, and pay for the game with subscriptions that can maintain the servers.
- malka 13y ago
  editors should be required to provide a patch so that the solo part of the game can still be played after the editor consider that the game is no longer and decides to shut down the server.
shangaslammi 13y ago
The article claims incorrectly that the game had 18 single-player missions. The FAQ linked from the article is for the game "Order of War". "Order of War: Challenge" is a completely separate, multi-player-only game that had its servers shut down and was removed from Steam. The original "Order of War" is still available (http://store.steampowered.com/app/34600/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/34600/). In addition, the "Challenge" add-on was given free to those who bought the original game. This is a complete non-issue as far as Steam is concerned (the complaint about publishers shutting down multi-player servers is certainly valid). There is nothing that you could do with the game even if you still had it in your Steam library.
- aerique 13y ago
  I don't know this game, but if for example Blizzard would shut down the World of Warcraft servers you could still play it on private servers. Same for a lot of other MMOs that do not have their official server anymore like Star Wars Galaxies and Earth & Beyond. People can still play these on private and / or emulated servers.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - hatu 13y ago
    Don't you need some kind of a cracked version of the game for that? I don't know if you can play on private servers with a Steam version of a game anyway.
    - 67726e 13y ago
      It probably depends on the game and how they store server information. For instance, if they hostname for the server that broadcasts available game servers is sitting in a .ini file, you don't need a crack. If it was a hardcoded string in the binary, then you would. Of course some games may also employ other mechanisms to restrict what/where you can connect to, but in a lot of cases I've seen it is a matter of pointing to an IP with a server running. As an example, Counter Strike: Source stored the servers in a human readable file and you could add alternative servers in the config file without a problem.
izzydata 13y ago
And this is why I'll never feel comfortable paying for a full priced game from a digital download. Until they can sell it to me in a digital format that allows me to own it and have complete control over it in whatever way that I want I will either not play the game, pirate the game, or get a boxed copy.
salient 13y ago
And people can't wait until they get OS-level DRM like in Windows 8 and Chromebooks, just to play Netflix in "HTML5", even though it plays just fine now in Silverlight, and TPM in their hardware? I don't think they really know what they're asking for. Once the Pandora's box is open, you can't put the evil back inside. You'll regret ever wanting that "safety" or "convenience" feature, when it will make your computer a lot less safe (from the vendors themselves, government censorship, etc) and a lot less convenient (when everything you want to use has frustrating OS-level DRM enabled). Wake up and smell the coffee. If it can be abused, it will be abused.
lt 13y ago
Another disaster about to happen is Games for Windows Live, a online DRM scheme, used by many games, but in particular GTA IV, which doesn't have much on online features except for the DRM check. It has been announted that GFWL is going to shutdown July 1st. Many developers/publishers have indicated that they are going to remove/replace it, but Rockstar not only hasn't mentioned anything in that sense, it has recently updated the fine print on the steam store for GTA IV adding new clauses: Access to special features may require internet connection, may not be available to all users, and may, upon 30 days’ notice, be terminated, modified, or offered under different terms. Unauthorized copying, reverse engineering, transmission, public performance, rental, pay for play, or circumvention of copy protection is strictly prohibited Partner Requirements: Please check the terms of service of this site before purchasing this software. rockstargames.com/eula So while Rockstar is washing their hands if their offline, single player, triple-A game stops working in six months, and also prohibiting circumvention of this 'protection', GTA IV is happily being sold by Steam, even today being promoted in their store front page as a daily deal of their winter sale.
- clone1018 13y ago
  Thankfully the community still has an active group of modders so even if Rockstar doesn't fix it, we should eventually get a patch.
- Qualman 13y ago
  I wouldn't be too worried about this. Batman: Arkham Asylum and Arkham City both utilized GFWL, and Rocksteady (the developer) simply released a patch that removed the GFWL software. They play just as great as ever. EDIT: Just kidding. I did not read your comment close enough, clearly. Here's to hoping that Rockstar is as stand-up as Rocksteady, at least.
- Silhouette 13y ago
  I think if they're going to argue that routine gameplay is a special feature, they're going to be on a loser when the courts and/or trading standards people get hold of them. At least in the UK, that term seems to be clearly unfair and therefore unlikely to stand up if customers start demanding compensation.
moron4hire 13y ago
This case is clearly SquareEnix's fault and not Valve's. When are gamers going to finally wake up and start voting with their dollars against DRM? This couldn't happen in a market where the consumer doesn't just swallow whatever shit is flung their way.

109 points by mjn 13y ago

Anyone got original license for that game? Did it include clause that could have allowed for anything like that?

bjz_ 13y ago

Always on DRM is also a threat to the preservation of artistic works for future generations. Folks still play the early Civilization and Sim City titles even after all these years.

trycatch 13y ago
All server-based MMOs will be canceled sooner or later. Dead sites will be preserved by the Internet Archive, but dead MMOs will be known for future generations only in Let's plays and secondary sources. Relevant article, "MMO graveyard": http://mmohuts.com/editorials/mmo-graveyard http://mmohuts.com/editorials/mmo-graveyard
- nknighthb 13y ago
  I play a server-based MMO that effectively ceased to exist over a decade ago. Third-party reimplementations of many MMO servers are thriving.
  - byuu 13y ago
    > I play a server-based MMO that effectively ceased to exist over a decade ago. Second Age, In Por Ylem or Forever? :P
- girvo 13y ago
  Which, interestingly, is why one of the head developers who worked on Warhammer: Age of Reckoning (the MMO, that was quite enjoyable) wants the debug dev version cleaned up and release: It removed all the online content, and just let you take a character through the entire world, all offline. He wants to do that, as a way of preserving the world. It might not have the content, but its something, and an interesting take on it!
  - markeganfuller 13y ago
    Got a link? That sounds interesting.
    - Semaphor 13y ago
      Some googling turned up his blog post: http://shinytoys.org/blog/war-in-a-bottle http://shinytoys.org/blog/war-in-a-bottle
__david__ 13y ago
…and Asteroids and Pacman via MAME and other emulators. Those are even older.

TempleOSV2 13y ago

The purpose of life is to enjoy God's company. If you pick random passages, everything comes up eventually. Every person has to decide how serious God was when He said stuff and if they will obey. Sometimes, you do. Mostly just enjoy His company and grow. God says... C:\TAD\Text\HUCKFINN.TXT agements! Admission 25 cents; children and servants, 10 cents. Then we went loafing around town. The stores and houses was most all old, shackly, dried up frame concerns that hadn't ever been painted; they was set up three or four foot above ground on stilts, so as to be out of reach of the water when the river was over-flowed. The houses had little gardens around them, but they didn't seem to raise hardly anything in them but jimpson-weeds, and sunflowers, and ash piles, and old curled-up boot

tomphoolery 13y ago

No refunds? Really?!? The guy who sold me my bong has a better fucking return policy than that.

SwellJoe 13y ago
Bongs can't be returned for health and safety reasons.
- ryguytilidie 13y ago
  I would argue that "no returns" is a lot more lenient than someone stealing the stuff you bought from them and not giving you a refund...
fletchowns 13y ago
The main appeal of the game was apparently the multi-player, which isn't going to be that great if nobody bought the thing. You can't expect a refund for this type of purchase from either Steam or the studio that developed it, that is ridiculous. They shouldn't have removed it from people's libraries though, and the developer should have released one last patch that disabled the DRM and let you run your own server.
- MichaelApproved 13y ago
  Running your server is probably too much to ask for since their server is likely integrated ito many of their other systems and the code is probably something they want to keep out of public hands BUT I like your idea of one last patch for DRM free version. Online will no longer work but at least single player would.
  - axefrog 13y ago
    As with WoW, Ultima Online and various other MMO's, unauthorized servers tend to be written from scratch using an analysis of incoming and outgoing client/server traffic. Nobody would expect Square Enix to release their server software, just simply to disable the DRM so that others can play the game and attempt to write their own server software if they choose.

drawkbox 13y ago

The root problem was them shutting it down because the game client hit their servers and they were shutting them down. Running servers is costly. But game developers should do an update or at least provide a way to turn off multiplayer or allow others to run servers when the game is finished. There isn't really a system for this yet but there needs to be, multiplayer support ends for most games eventually. The good ones allow it to live on in communities if they so desire. And killing single player missions for DRM sake highlights the problem. Good networking middleware and cloud services for this could solve the problem rather than every game company remaking this over and over and having to deal with this.

tokenizerrr 13y ago
There's a pretty decent system. Self hosted game servers, and a patch to disable the DRM once the official servers go belly under. Unfortunately few developers care enough about their users to do such.
- GrinningFool 13y ago
  It's not so simple as "few developers care enough". Do you seriously think that there are a signficant number of game developers who just turn around and say "fuck them, they're only our customers anyway"? It generally comes down to restrictions placed by the publisher. Due to agreements with the publisher[1], the developing company can't just release a patch to disable DRM whenever they want - they are contractually obligated to not release anything without publisher approval. And publishers are very, very reluctant to approve disabling DRM. [1] Source: contacts and contract work in the industry, and got to deal with the second-hand effects of publisher restrictions myself.

Silhouette 13y ago

There is a broader issue here than just gaming, too. Many high-end applications now have obnoxious DRM/copy protection schemes that require varying levels of Internet connectivity to work. I have asked a reseller about how this operates if the original developer of the $X,000/seat software my business relies on goes under, and they basically laughed my question off, saying that would never happen. I have also, in an entirely different context, had some knowledge of legal actions involving that same developer, and I don't share the reseller's faith in their guaranteed longevity. There have been occasional court cases on these matters, and at least in Europe the courts mostly seem to have taken the view that if it looks like a purchase (for example, if there was a reasonable expectation that once money changed hands the new holder of the software would be able to use it indefinitely) then it must be respected as such. Still, I wonder at what point primary legislation is going to become necessary. Copyright reform has been vigorously opposed by Big Media and mostly successfully so far, but when you start hitting large numbers of customers in the wallet and they can't just pirate their way out of it and get away with it any more, sooner or later I suspect something has to give.

kostyk 13y ago
yeah, ask the guy in 2007 if Lehman Brothers would go bankrupt next year, he would think you escaped mental clinic.
abengoam 13y ago
That's why enterprise customers demand source code escrow clauses, for protection against that same scenario.
mjn 13y ago
In enterprise (and academic) settings a traditional approach has been to let the client run the license server. That's how Matlab works, for example: a network-licensed copy won't start up unless it can "phone home", but typically it phones home to the license server run by the client, on the client's network, not to centralized DRM servers run by the vendor. I know for consumer software things are slowly moving towards centralized-DRM as the norm, but I thought for enterprise applications this kind of self-hosted license server was still the norm. Maybe not?

namers 13y ago

I'm pretty sure their EULA mentions that you agree to such terms, so there is not much buyers can legally do. The simple solution is to do a quick scan of the EULA( tools to help exists ) of the next game you would like to play for a longer period to and then if the it includes these ridiculous terms simply don't buy it.

anonymousab 13y ago
The contractual legality of and superceding of consumer rights by videogame EULAs seems to vary on a country by country basis, if not province by province/state by state.
gommm 13y ago
Even if it's included in EULA, it doesn't mean that this would be allowed in a lot of jurisdictions. A lot of clauses from most EULA are not applicable everywhere. I think there'd be a case in most european countries.
- namers 13y ago
  My point was that instead of getting screwed, you should not buy the game, this way you hurt them them most. If they break some local laws what are you, the buyer, going to do really.
  - maaku 13y ago
    Games aren't some fungible commodity you can shop around for. If you want to play that game, what else can you do?
    - namers 13y ago
      Keep your integrity.
    - forrestthewoods 13y ago
      A single game isn't a commodity, but entertainment is. There is an almost unlimited amount of entertainment available for only a handful of dollars.

forrestthewoods 13y ago

The article does not make clear if the single player aspects of the game were running on the now defunct servers or not. There's a pretty big difference in "DRM" and "requires remote hardware running server code".

tommis 13y ago
the article said the game had always-on drm, even for singe player game. The company who made the game shutdown the servers, making it impossible to play either multi- or singleplayer, so valve simply removed a non-functional game from the library

goggles99 13y ago

LOL... steam and all their holier than thou blog posts about being open and better than Microsoft - That was never anything more than a rant about the Windows 8 built in app market that they were afraid would undercut their profits and dominance (a scheme against competition). They are neither open nor respect rights of ownership. AFAIK, Microsoft themselves have never forcefully removed an app from Windows in this manner.

tokenizerrr 13y ago
Did you even read the article? The game was to become literally unplayable because its developers (Square Enix) decided to pull the plug on the DRM and multiplayer servers instead of handing out a DRM-disabling patch.
- mortyseinfeld 13y ago
  So you're justifying Steam deleting the game, even though you won't come out and say it.
freehunter 13y ago
Microsoft certainly did remove apps from Windows even after they are purchased. They had Crackdown on WP7 as a tower defense game. They shut down the servers and the game disappeared, never to be seen again. Really pissed me off. They also refused to update their Texas Hold'em game, so when I moved to WP8, the game I had purchased disappeared.
- goggles99 13y ago
  FYI, When someone says "Windows" they generally are talking about a PC desktop. Not a phone version. I am guessing that you probably already know this, but want to push any angle for a rebuttal. I am referring to Windows 8 specifically (yes the PC version) because this is the version that Steam was vying as evil.
  - freehunter 13y ago

dm2 13y ago

I recently purchased a game from Steam (Max Payne 3) and after I download the full 30 gig game it tells me "cannot connect to key server". After several emails with their support they inform me that Steam doesn't have enough CD keys, yet they continue selling the game on their website. It has been about a week now and I still cannot even play this game. Plus, not only does that require a Steam account but you also have to have a Rockstar account. What has PC gaming become?

lsh 13y ago
I bought it on sale months ago, booted it up and was told I had to sign up for this Rockstar account and haven't got passed that yet. I'm sure it's a wonderful game.
- dm2 13y ago
  I've only played single player but it's a pretty decent game, lots of cutsceens and loading screens though.
voltagex_ 13y ago
I keep a library of cracks for games that I own on Steam, it's one way to ensure I have access to what I bought. It's looking like it will be needed for lots of GFWL games now, too.
blub 13y ago
If you want to enjoy PC gaming buy from gog.com, I think that's the only guarantee that it won't have some crap DRM. If you want to play recent titles you're out of luck...
- karlmdavis 13y ago
  Also Humble Bundle.
  - jhasse 13y ago
    Humble ->Indie<- Bundle. There are Humble Bundles with DRM.

qwerta 13y ago

We had similar problem: InstallShield is very expensive software. The company which sells it was renamed, and they changed domain name together with license activation server... So we could no longer activate software we bought. Suggested solution was to buy new version. Pretty bad since we could not make new build without this software. Luckily for us we had everything virtualized already (not so common a few years ago).

StavrosK 13y ago
Hah, nice suggested solution there. I've been wondering why NSIS isn't more popular, it was fantastic when I was using it, very light, fast and extensible.
- qwerta 13y ago
  NSIS is light years ahead of InstallShield. But all sucks compared to APT or other Linux installation systems.

K0nserv 13y ago

The response to these news are surprisingly meek, but I guess we can attribute that to the game in question not having a large player base. I for one think this behaviour is unacceptable and it destroys gaming as an industry. In 20 years will the teenagers/kids of today have no way of playing the games they grew up with simply because the servers have been turned off? Patching DRM out of the game and releasing server software to allow people to host their own servers should be industry standard in these cases. This is must surely be the result of politics at a much higher level than the studio, I don't think any studio likes to see their game just disappear of the surface of the earth just like that; after all that would be the equivalent of murdering ones child.

MichaelGG 13y ago

Aren't you allowed to circumvent DRM for certain fair use cases? Certainly disabling DRM on the single-player parts would fall under that, wouldn't it? Valve would earn respect back by releasing a crack/replacement DRM that uses Steam.

JeffL 13y ago

I don't think the issue is Steam deleting the game so much, since this game had always on DRM and the servers were going down. It makes sense to delete the game rather than dleaving an inoperable game around. The issue is more the always on DRM and the idea that people pay for a game upfront that requires the servers to be running. It would make more sense if a game that you buy will always run to some extent without servers, or else, if servers are required, then don't charge upfront, and pay for the game with subscriptions that can maintain the servers.

malka 13y ago
editors should be required to provide a patch so that the solo part of the game can still be played after the editor consider that the game is no longer and decides to shut down the server.

shangaslammi 13y ago

The article claims incorrectly that the game had 18 single-player missions. The FAQ linked from the article is for the game "Order of War". "Order of War: Challenge" is a completely separate, multi-player-only game that had its servers shut down and was removed from Steam. The original "Order of War" is still available (http://store.steampowered.com/app/34600/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/34600/). In addition, the "Challenge" add-on was given free to those who bought the original game. This is a complete non-issue as far as Steam is concerned (the complaint about publishers shutting down multi-player servers is certainly valid). There is nothing that you could do with the game even if you still had it in your Steam library.

aerique 13y ago
I don't know this game, but if for example Blizzard would shut down the World of Warcraft servers you could still play it on private servers. Same for a lot of other MMOs that do not have their official server anymore like Star Wars Galaxies and Earth & Beyond. People can still play these on private and / or emulated servers.
- deleted 13y ago
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- hatu 13y ago
  Don't you need some kind of a cracked version of the game for that? I don't know if you can play on private servers with a Steam version of a game anyway.
  - 67726e 13y ago
    It probably depends on the game and how they store server information. For instance, if they hostname for the server that broadcasts available game servers is sitting in a .ini file, you don't need a crack. If it was a hardcoded string in the binary, then you would. Of course some games may also employ other mechanisms to restrict what/where you can connect to, but in a lot of cases I've seen it is a matter of pointing to an IP with a server running. As an example, Counter Strike: Source stored the servers in a human readable file and you could add alternative servers in the config file without a problem.

izzydata 13y ago

And this is why I'll never feel comfortable paying for a full priced game from a digital download. Until they can sell it to me in a digital format that allows me to own it and have complete control over it in whatever way that I want I will either not play the game, pirate the game, or get a boxed copy.

salient 13y ago

And people can't wait until they get OS-level DRM like in Windows 8 and Chromebooks, just to play Netflix in "HTML5", even though it plays just fine now in Silverlight, and TPM in their hardware? I don't think they really know what they're asking for. Once the Pandora's box is open, you can't put the evil back inside. You'll regret ever wanting that "safety" or "convenience" feature, when it will make your computer a lot less safe (from the vendors themselves, government censorship, etc) and a lot less convenient (when everything you want to use has frustrating OS-level DRM enabled). Wake up and smell the coffee. If it can be abused, it will be abused.

lt 13y ago

Another disaster about to happen is Games for Windows Live, a online DRM scheme, used by many games, but in particular GTA IV, which doesn't have much on online features except for the DRM check. It has been announted that GFWL is going to shutdown July 1st. Many developers/publishers have indicated that they are going to remove/replace it, but Rockstar not only hasn't mentioned anything in that sense, it has recently updated the fine print on the steam store for GTA IV adding new clauses: Access to special features may require internet connection, may not be available to all users, and may, upon 30 days’ notice, be terminated, modified, or offered under different terms. Unauthorized copying, reverse engineering, transmission, public performance, rental, pay for play, or circumvention of copy protection is strictly prohibited Partner Requirements: Please check the terms of service of this site before purchasing this software. rockstargames.com/eula So while Rockstar is washing their hands if their offline, single player, triple-A game stops working in six months, and also prohibiting circumvention of this 'protection', GTA IV is happily being sold by Steam, even today being promoted in their store front page as a daily deal of their winter sale.

clone1018 13y ago
Thankfully the community still has an active group of modders so even if Rockstar doesn't fix it, we should eventually get a patch.
Qualman 13y ago
I wouldn't be too worried about this. Batman: Arkham Asylum and Arkham City both utilized GFWL, and Rocksteady (the developer) simply released a patch that removed the GFWL software. They play just as great as ever. EDIT: Just kidding. I did not read your comment close enough, clearly. Here's to hoping that Rockstar is as stand-up as Rocksteady, at least.
Silhouette 13y ago
I think if they're going to argue that routine gameplay is a special feature, they're going to be on a loser when the courts and/or trading standards people get hold of them. At least in the UK, that term seems to be clearly unfair and therefore unlikely to stand up if customers start demanding compensation.

moron4hire 13y ago

This case is clearly SquareEnix's fault and not Valve's. When are gamers going to finally wake up and start voting with their dollars against DRM? This couldn't happen in a market where the consumer doesn't just swallow whatever shit is flung their way.