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I wonder what kind of dirt the executive branch has on the judicial branch..

by smokeyj 13y ago

diminoten 13y ago
I'm so sick of this claim. The NSA fucked up based on what we know, there's no need to wildly speculate that actual blackmail is occurring too. It's just plain unnecessary.
- nardi 13y ago
  I think it's absolutely worth considering what power the NSA has that could be abused. Considering what we now know to be true that none of us suspected a few months ago, I think it's more irresponsible to unilaterally shut down speculation of this kind than it is to indulge in it.
  - diminoten 13y ago
    Absolutely. But that's a completely different thing than what happened here, in this specific case.
- Zigurd 13y ago
  Please tell us in which cases NSA exercised restraint when it could, instead, take every opportunity?
- tphyahoo 13y ago
  Why not? https://solari.com/blog/control-files https://solari.com/blog/control-files The entire point of gathering information is to use it. Why rule out blackmail?
- alan_cx 13y ago
  No, its reasonably implied. If the NSA has the information its claimed to have, then its reasonable to suggest that anyone in power has every little thing they ever did wrong in the past in the back of their minds, knowing the NSA might know about it. Recent revelations can only make that feeling stronger. So, while it is unlikely that every judge, politician, whatever, has been literally visited by a NSA goon, it is quite reasonable to suggest that such people rationally decide not to oppose the NSA, and act accordingly. That is the whole reason why industrialised, comprehensive data slurping is a direct threat to any notion of freedom.
  - diminoten 13y ago
    You can't get this for free, given how big of a deal it is. You have to prove it's happening or stop saying it all-together. It's just that big of a deal.
    - na85 13y ago
      It's happening. You think they developed scruples after LOVEINT or whatever it was they called it? Have people forgotten Hoover in your country? It is guaranteed. There's no way it's not happening. Maybe not everyone, but many people in the US Gov't have dirty laundry. And some of that laundry has been discovered. And some of what's been discovered has been used for blackmail. I've never been more confident of any opinion I've ever held.
      - diminoten 13y ago
        If you've ever wondered what religious people feel like in relation to God's existence, you now understand.
- CamperBob2 13y ago
  The NSA fucked up based on what we know, there's no need to wildly speculate that actual blackmail is occurring too. Blackmail is one of the more benign outcomes of the surveillance apparatus that's been put in place. Are you perchance familiar with the career of one J. Edgar Hoover?
marcosdumay 13y ago
Well, even if there was blackmail, there is no reason to assume it involved entire branches of your governement. What do you think the NSA collects every kind of dirt from everybody in the US for?
smsm42 13y ago
You don't need any dirt. There are enough people that think honest people don't need to fear surveillance, and even more people thinking there's nothing wrong with losing a little privacy and a little dignity if somebody says it is because of terrorists and person saying it wears some kind of uniform. That's why TSA agents are universally tolerated. That's why nobody in Congress with powers to look into everything NSA is doing was actually interested in raising any objections about what is going on before Snowden. People value freedom much less than one'd hope, especially when they're properly scared by somebody in uniform.

I wonder what kind of dirt the executive branch has on the judicial branch..

by smokeyj 13y ago

I wonder what kind of dirt the executive branch has on the judicial branch..

I'm so sick of this claim. The NSA fucked up based on what we know, there's no need to wildly speculate that actual blackmail is occurring too. It's just plain unnecessary.

nardi 13y ago
I think it's absolutely worth considering what power the NSA has that could be abused. Considering what we now know to be true that none of us suspected a few months ago, I think it's more irresponsible to unilaterally shut down speculation of this kind than it is to indulge in it.
- diminoten 13y ago
  Absolutely. But that's a completely different thing than what happened here, in this specific case.
Zigurd 13y ago
Please tell us in which cases NSA exercised restraint when it could, instead, take every opportunity?
tphyahoo 13y ago
Why not? https://solari.com/blog/control-files https://solari.com/blog/control-files The entire point of gathering information is to use it. Why rule out blackmail?
alan_cx 13y ago
No, its reasonably implied. If the NSA has the information its claimed to have, then its reasonable to suggest that anyone in power has every little thing they ever did wrong in the past in the back of their minds, knowing the NSA might know about it. Recent revelations can only make that feeling stronger. So, while it is unlikely that every judge, politician, whatever, has been literally visited by a NSA goon, it is quite reasonable to suggest that such people rationally decide not to oppose the NSA, and act accordingly. That is the whole reason why industrialised, comprehensive data slurping is a direct threat to any notion of freedom.
- diminoten 13y ago
  You can't get this for free, given how big of a deal it is. You have to prove it's happening or stop saying it all-together. It's just that big of a deal.
  - na85 13y ago
    It's happening. You think they developed scruples after LOVEINT or whatever it was they called it? Have people forgotten Hoover in your country? It is guaranteed. There's no way it's not happening. Maybe not everyone, but many people in the US Gov't have dirty laundry. And some of that laundry has been discovered. And some of what's been discovered has been used for blackmail. I've never been more confident of any opinion I've ever held.
    - diminoten 13y ago
      If you've ever wondered what religious people feel like in relation to God's existence, you now understand.
CamperBob2 13y ago
The NSA fucked up based on what we know, there's no need to wildly speculate that actual blackmail is occurring too. Blackmail is one of the more benign outcomes of the surveillance apparatus that's been put in place. Are you perchance familiar with the career of one J. Edgar Hoover?

marcosdumay 13y ago

Well, even if there was blackmail, there is no reason to assume it involved entire branches of your governement. What do you think the NSA collects every kind of dirt from everybody in the US for?

smsm42 13y ago

You don't need any dirt. There are enough people that think honest people don't need to fear surveillance, and even more people thinking there's nothing wrong with losing a little privacy and a little dignity if somebody says it is because of terrorists and person saying it wears some kind of uniform. That's why TSA agents are universally tolerated. That's why nobody in Congress with powers to look into everything NSA is doing was actually interested in raising any objections about what is going on before Snowden. People value freedom much less than one'd hope, especially when they're properly scared by somebody in uniform.