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What a disgusting point of view. The only thing that would make the world a better place is if the funding for death-machines was instead being used to deliver

What a disgusting point of view. The only thing that would make the world a better place is if the funding for death-machines was instead being used to deliver water purification plants, schools and education packages, medical supplies - to those human beings living in the 'foreign lands' who really need it. For the cost of a single Hellfire, many Afghanistan villages could've been given power, for the first time, to charge their phones, making it possible for them to communicate, to educate themselves. But instead: BOOM! There goes some kids leg. What a pity that the desire to create such technology is not, instead, being directed by the government towards truly peaceful technologies..

giardini 13y ago
fit2rule: "the funding for death-machines was instead being used to deliver water purification plants, schools and education packages, medical supplies - to those human beings living in the 'foreign lands' who really need it." And what happens when people who accept those plants, schools and education are killed by people who don't want them to accept those gifts from us? Back in the Vietnam era I made the same argument you do (for awhile). But the VC learned to kill villagers who accepted aid. The same thing goes on today in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan etc. In a better world, one without war, I would agree with you. But that is not the world we live in. Sometimes you have to think things through to second-order and higher effects.
- fit2rule 13y ago
  The cost of one drone would provide ample resources for a village in Afghanistan to educate itself and defend itself from other killers. Drop books not bombs!
  - cmdkeen 13y ago
    You do realise the Taliban are specifically opposed to Western education, especially the education of women. You have groups like Boko Haram (literally "Western education is sinful"). Dropping books on villages when the security situation hasn't been established is akin to dropping landmines - anyone who picks one up and takes it home risks being killed. There is a very good reason the Afghan campaign was about providing security in an area first then building schools, providing power, healthcare etc. The problem is that Helmand province (especially) is so close the Pakistani border, and thus limitless reinforcements, providing the security there to do anything else is nigh on impossible.
    - fit2rule 13y ago
      Educating new generations is vital to the effort to replace these heinous groups with sane, functioning societies. Just because 'its hard to educate' doesn't justify the continued killing of innocents.
      - cmdkeen 13y ago
        No-one is saying that we shouldn't try to educate our potential enemies, especially in places like Afghanistan. I'm just pointing out that your "drop books on them instead" it fatuous and wouldn't work. Provide the security so that people won't be killed for being educated, and education is best. Educating without security just leads to dead kids.
        fit2rule 13y ago
        Look, take the amount of technology developed to murder, kill and maim - and instead use that same degree of technology to educate, enlighten, and liberate. How hard is it to understand this concept? It was once very, very difficult to drop a bomb on a childs head from afar - you used to have to do a lot more. Now its 'easy', relatively speaking. Imagine if that same scale of efficacy were applied, instead, to educating - to healing - to helping instead of killing. What would the "B1 Bomber" of education systems look like? Lets develop it, and deliver.
        melling 13y ago
        Most Americans think we already spend too much on foreign aid. So, politically what you are proposing isn't going to work. Perhaps a privately funded solution. The "Three Cups of Tea" author was doing some of this but it turned out he wasn't completely honest. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Cups_of_Tea http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Cups_of_Tea
        fit2rule 13y ago
        >>Most Americans think we already spend too much on foreign aid. I've yet to meet an American who thinks the Trillion dollar military-industrial debt that they owe has been worth it. At all.
neals 13y ago
Yes. However, nobody is interested in funding these types of drones. The military has the budget to really kickstart drone development and take us to the next level. As alwasy, the military leads the way in science with their limitless budget, funded by fear. Peaceful spinoff project is where the benefits for everybody will come from.
AndrewKemendo 13y ago
For the cost of a single Hellfire, many Afghanistan villages could've been given power, for the first time, to charge their phones, making it possible for them to communicate, to educate themselves. A nice thought, but anyone who has spent time in rural AFG/PAK or Yemen/Somalia (where most of this is happening) will tell you that that is not what would happen. More typical, the power would be diverted to or ripped out by the local warlords to maintain their own power over the population - and most of the "regular" citizens go along with it because it meets cultural demands of the religiosity and tribalism that has been baked in for. Liberalism (classic) can't be forced on a region or a group of people.

giardini 13y ago

fit2rule: "the funding for death-machines was instead being used to deliver water purification plants, schools and education packages, medical supplies - to those human beings living in the 'foreign lands' who really need it." And what happens when people who accept those plants, schools and education are killed by people who don't want them to accept those gifts from us? Back in the Vietnam era I made the same argument you do (for awhile). But the VC learned to kill villagers who accepted aid. The same thing goes on today in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan etc. In a better world, one without war, I would agree with you. But that is not the world we live in. Sometimes you have to think things through to second-order and higher effects.

fit2rule 13y ago
The cost of one drone would provide ample resources for a village in Afghanistan to educate itself and defend itself from other killers. Drop books not bombs!
- cmdkeen 13y ago
  You do realise the Taliban are specifically opposed to Western education, especially the education of women. You have groups like Boko Haram (literally "Western education is sinful"). Dropping books on villages when the security situation hasn't been established is akin to dropping landmines - anyone who picks one up and takes it home risks being killed. There is a very good reason the Afghan campaign was about providing security in an area first then building schools, providing power, healthcare etc. The problem is that Helmand province (especially) is so close the Pakistani border, and thus limitless reinforcements, providing the security there to do anything else is nigh on impossible.
  - fit2rule 13y ago
    Educating new generations is vital to the effort to replace these heinous groups with sane, functioning societies. Just because 'its hard to educate' doesn't justify the continued killing of innocents.
    - cmdkeen 13y ago
      No-one is saying that we shouldn't try to educate our potential enemies, especially in places like Afghanistan. I'm just pointing out that your "drop books on them instead" it fatuous and wouldn't work. Provide the security so that people won't be killed for being educated, and education is best. Educating without security just leads to dead kids.
      - fit2rule 13y ago
        Look, take the amount of technology developed to murder, kill and maim - and instead use that same degree of technology to educate, enlighten, and liberate. How hard is it to understand this concept? It was once very, very difficult to drop a bomb on a childs head from afar - you used to have to do a lot more. Now its 'easy', relatively speaking. Imagine if that same scale of efficacy were applied, instead, to educating - to healing - to helping instead of killing. What would the "B1 Bomber" of education systems look like? Lets develop it, and deliver.
        melling 13y ago
        Most Americans think we already spend too much on foreign aid. So, politically what you are proposing isn't going to work. Perhaps a privately funded solution. The "Three Cups of Tea" author was doing some of this but it turned out he wasn't completely honest. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Cups_of_Tea http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Cups_of_Tea
        fit2rule 13y ago
        >>Most Americans think we already spend too much on foreign aid. I've yet to meet an American who thinks the Trillion dollar military-industrial debt that they owe has been worth it. At all.

neals 13y ago

Yes. However, nobody is interested in funding these types of drones. The military has the budget to really kickstart drone development and take us to the next level. As alwasy, the military leads the way in science with their limitless budget, funded by fear. Peaceful spinoff project is where the benefits for everybody will come from.

AndrewKemendo 13y ago

For the cost of a single Hellfire, many Afghanistan villages could've been given power, for the first time, to charge their phones, making it possible for them to communicate, to educate themselves. A nice thought, but anyone who has spent time in rural AFG/PAK or Yemen/Somalia (where most of this is happening) will tell you that that is not what would happen. More typical, the power would be diverted to or ripped out by the local warlords to maintain their own power over the population - and most of the "regular" citizens go along with it because it meets cultural demands of the religiosity and tribalism that has been baked in for. Liberalism (classic) can't be forced on a region or a group of people.