4 ms·

Spying is an age-old game and it's not just the US doing it ;) I'd love to see some leaks out of Russia and China. It doesn't matter where your data is stored i

Spying is an age-old game and it's not just the US doing it ;) I'd love to see some leaks out of Russia and China. It doesn't matter where your data is stored if it's off-premises. If you were putting it in the cloud unencrypted, you were already at risk, Snowden or not. Intelligence agencies around the world recruit workers in tech companies, the company need not overtly cooperate to get screwed. Countries around the world slurp up data over the wire, they just haven't been caught with their hand in the cookie jar yet. At least the NSA's massive data caches won't be easily hacked. Verint (just one of many companies in the surveillance space) has 75 countries as customers. There's a ton of sh*t going on under the radar. You may hate surveillance and want more transparency but nobody can pretend it's just the US doing this stuff.

Paul12345534 13y ago
On top of that, I suspect some of the anti-US stuff posted is for the express purpose of gaining customers away from the US. (this may get downvoted, people may disagree, but I have no doubt it's happening)
- dspillett 13y ago
  No, that is definitely a factor here: non-US companies are taking advantage of the recent growth in anti-US feeling to make themselves look more attractive to potential customers and investors. No one should really be surprised by this: it simply makes good business sense. The politicians will be on the ball too, at at least those whose remit covers national/international business or who have a constituency with a large workforce that could benefit. You can see a push in the other direction too: the "buy American" campaigns state-side have grown in volume, more so than can be explained purely by economic factors (which have been the key driver for that sort of thing since 2008) and an interest in protecting manufacturing jobs. If the large (relatively affluent) American market can be discouraged from buying goods/services without a US connection, companies will be discouraged from distancing themselves from US interests. Of course there has always been a certain amount of keeping business information in particular places. Some regulated industries have to by law and have had to for a long time (you can't properly regulate something if you allow it to move out of your jurisdiction), and all businesses should be aware of the issue (though sadly many aren't) when dealing with personal data. In the UK the Data Protection Act has clauses covering information security which mean you need to be care careful not only how you store personal data but where, and I assume most countries have something equivalent. A little healthy paranoia always snook in to: if the data is more local to you there is less chance you will loose access due to either technical, political, or local issues. The big difference right now compared to a-year-or-two ago is that the US has fallen off the secondary safe location list for many, and for EU based companies (and individuals) the balance in "I'd rather it be local, but if we can save a bit by hosting in the US, where market scale currently makes it cheaper, I might" has changed.
- dspillett 13y ago
  (BTW: the main reason you are getting downvoted in this case is likely to be unnecccessarily talking about voting patterns)
Paul12345534 13y ago
Salamat for the downvotes. You could comment on your reasoning ;)
- bluecalm 13y ago
  It's not safe/unsafe 0-1 game. Unless you have some information not available to the public you would be crazy to think it's good idea to store anything sensitive in US comparing to some European countries (if you have a choice) as of today at least. If anything there aren't many countries out there with comparable resources dedicated to spying and no countries have that extensive history of using military and intelligence information for economic gains.
drdaeman 13y ago
No reason to leak anything from Russia. It's not a secret but a law here that SORM-2 devices are mandatory to install by each ISP (very small ISPs may wait for up to two years, though). It must have full access to mirrored traffic crossing the AS border and RADIUS traffic (in case of TACACS+ ISPs are also asked to reveal encryption keys). While I suspect they're mostly laying dormant and don't think they're secretly massively abused in mass-surveillance, no idea what those black boxes are doing, though. The point is, they're here, they have full access, and they technically could be abused anytime, so don't transfer any sensitive data to or through Russia unencrypted. Like with any other country, possibly except for Equestria. Disclaimer: I work for an ISP.
pilsetnieks 13y ago
> it's not just the US doing it Oh, so it's ok then.

Paul12345534 13y ago

On top of that, I suspect some of the anti-US stuff posted is for the express purpose of gaining customers away from the US. (this may get downvoted, people may disagree, but I have no doubt it's happening)

dspillett 13y ago
No, that is definitely a factor here: non-US companies are taking advantage of the recent growth in anti-US feeling to make themselves look more attractive to potential customers and investors. No one should really be surprised by this: it simply makes good business sense. The politicians will be on the ball too, at at least those whose remit covers national/international business or who have a constituency with a large workforce that could benefit. You can see a push in the other direction too: the "buy American" campaigns state-side have grown in volume, more so than can be explained purely by economic factors (which have been the key driver for that sort of thing since 2008) and an interest in protecting manufacturing jobs. If the large (relatively affluent) American market can be discouraged from buying goods/services without a US connection, companies will be discouraged from distancing themselves from US interests. Of course there has always been a certain amount of keeping business information in particular places. Some regulated industries have to by law and have had to for a long time (you can't properly regulate something if you allow it to move out of your jurisdiction), and all businesses should be aware of the issue (though sadly many aren't) when dealing with personal data. In the UK the Data Protection Act has clauses covering information security which mean you need to be care careful not only how you store personal data but where, and I assume most countries have something equivalent. A little healthy paranoia always snook in to: if the data is more local to you there is less chance you will loose access due to either technical, political, or local issues. The big difference right now compared to a-year-or-two ago is that the US has fallen off the secondary safe location list for many, and for EU based companies (and individuals) the balance in "I'd rather it be local, but if we can save a bit by hosting in the US, where market scale currently makes it cheaper, I might" has changed.
dspillett 13y ago
(BTW: the main reason you are getting downvoted in this case is likely to be unnecccessarily talking about voting patterns)

Paul12345534 13y ago

Salamat for the downvotes. You could comment on your reasoning ;)

bluecalm 13y ago
It's not safe/unsafe 0-1 game. Unless you have some information not available to the public you would be crazy to think it's good idea to store anything sensitive in US comparing to some European countries (if you have a choice) as of today at least. If anything there aren't many countries out there with comparable resources dedicated to spying and no countries have that extensive history of using military and intelligence information for economic gains.

drdaeman 13y ago

No reason to leak anything from Russia. It's not a secret but a law here that SORM-2 devices are mandatory to install by each ISP (very small ISPs may wait for up to two years, though). It must have full access to mirrored traffic crossing the AS border and RADIUS traffic (in case of TACACS+ ISPs are also asked to reveal encryption keys). While I suspect they're mostly laying dormant and don't think they're secretly massively abused in mass-surveillance, no idea what those black boxes are doing, though. The point is, they're here, they have full access, and they technically could be abused anytime, so don't transfer any sensitive data to or through Russia unencrypted. Like with any other country, possibly except for Equestria. Disclaimer: I work for an ISP.

pilsetnieks 13y ago

> it's not just the US doing it Oh, so it's ok then.