4 ms·

A month earlier, Aaron wrote about his experiences working in a more traditional kind of office: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/officespace http://www.aaronsw.c

by raldi 13y ago

A month earlier, Aaron wrote about his experiences working in a more traditional kind of office: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/officespace http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/officespace > Gray walls, gray desks, gray noise. The first day I showed up here, I simply couldn’t take it. By lunch time I had literally locked myself in a bathroom stall and started crying. So I'm not sure what kind of office would have ever met his approval.

sanderjd 13y ago
Presumably one that is somewhere between those two extremes...
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- raldi 13y ago
  I actually have direct personal experience with both of his "extremes" -- I worked in the office he described as "gray" from 2008 to 2011, and I've been working in various Google offices ever since. There's really not that much of a gap between the two.
shmerl 13y ago
This one doesn't look gray: http://www.businessinsider.com/inside-mozillas-amazing-office-space-in-san-francisco-2012-3?op=1 http://www.businessinsider.com/inside-mozillas-amazing-offic...
- jrockway 13y ago
  This, incidentally, is the same building that Google San Francisco is in.
  - aiiane 13y ago
    Not quite. Same complex, but we're the building next door.
    - jrockway 13y ago
      Oh yeah, there's that weird arch thing that makes them look like they're connected, but they're completely separated. Confusing.
  - bmmayer1 13y ago
    Thank you for saying "incidentally" instead of "ironically." You are one in a million.
    - jrockway 13y ago
      Ironically, I was wrong about the buildings.
      - raldi 13y ago
        Incidentally, I believe the building has ironic columns.
        dekhn 13y ago
        dorian, actually.
- absconditus 13y ago
  The building appears to be better than average, but the workspaces look pretty horrible.
  - swift 13y ago
    They're actually pretty good. Sit/stand electric desks all around, and lots of great spaces throughout the building if you get tired of your desk and want a change of pace. I was spoiled in previous jobs by having my own office, but short of that I think Mozilla SF is about as good as it gets.
sliverstorm 13y ago
I have to think his head was wired differently than most of us.
- git-pull 13y ago
  Prodigies tend to receive a lot of encouragement and enabling. Ying and yang, Too much nurturing can be toxic.
  - dekhn 13y ago
    What makes you think Aaron was a prodigy? Please cite specific facts or details; be careful because the press makes claims about his achievements which aren't completely accurate. He seemed intelligent perhaps a bit more than the typical person, but profoundly unwise in many ways (if you want to achieve a goal, do so in a way that achieves the goal, rather than the spectacularly inefficient, risky, and ultimately unproductive things he worked on).
    - git-pull 13y ago
      Please cite specific facts or details; be careful because the press makes claims about his [Aaron Swartz] achievements which aren't completely accurate Curiosity stoked. What are some misconceptions about Swartz?
      - raldi 13y ago
        A lot of people interpret "Aaron worked on RSS 1.0" as "Aaron was involved in creating RSS", but in fact, he had almost nothing to do with that. There were many versions of RSS prior to v1.0, and it was already pretty established by the time he got involved. And actually, the standard had already forked before that point, and the one that ended up being called "RSS 1.0" was the less-popular fork that never really went anywhere. You'll notice that biographies of Aaron never really mention what part of RSS he supposedly played a role in creating. He also tends to get a lot of credit for founding reddit, but that's like saying Steve Case was a founder of Warner Brothers. And he gets credit for helping stop SOPA, but again, it's usually expressed as a vague statement that doesn't actually cite any kind of specific examples of how he made a contribution. I'm not aware of any politician mentioning Aaron or Demand Progress as being a part of their decisionmaking process, or any of the corporations that held anti-SOPA campaigns mentioning that DP was in any way a leader in that movement.
calibraxis 13y ago
To use Hacker News' main rhetorical meme, what would Steve Jobs say? When he found virtually all computer design schlocky, I'm sure people rolled their eyes. I haven't visited Apple; for all I know, they have the same dull corporate office mindset as anywhere. But it wouldn't be surprising for an idealized Steve Jobs to find the usual workplaces repellent to any halfway creative soul.
- jonny_eh 13y ago
  The point was that Aaron found a dull grey "grown up" office dreary, but found the colourful and playful atmosphere of Google "infantalizing".
Theodores 13y ago
Actually I think that quite a few offices would have met with his approval. It is not a choice between grey cubes and zany beanbag chairs + silly toys, there are other factors. I spent a while working for the UK civil service - the ultimate in 'grey'! However, our office was above an aquarium, our research was in oceanography and, as a consequence, we had an amazing foyer (the public aquarium) with a fantastic view out to sea overlooking the harbour (probably the best view in town). The hallways had fish-tanks in them complete with fish that were neither to eat or for decoration, there were 'bits of boat' lying around plus all kinds of sea-going instrumentation. There were plants too, not the sort you get from the garden centre, but I never paid attention to them enough to find out what they were there for. Amongst all of this fun-looking stuff there was a pretty big machine room and half the people there were purely computing staff. Importantly all of it was the real deal. None of it was fake, just purchased to give some novelty ambience to the office. It all had purpose, but fun was allowed too, within reason. Hallways would have plenty of interesting pictures, you know, the team at the base in the Antarctic, some satellite imagery of an algae bloom, that sort of stuff. There are plenty of other offices that have some amazing ambience to them. Television production facilities are another example, where there are zany fake things but they are props used for some show or other. Even relatively humble factories making things like cardboard boxes can have cool offices attached, overlooking the factory floor. The problem I have with Google style offices is that it is entirely fake. The distractions would drive me mad. Everyone knows it is fake. At the same time there is something sick about totally grey cubicles, i.e. with a tech company that just sells software. So, what to do with an IT company that has no 'fascinating product' made on site? Some inspiration can be found in the Maclaren Technology Centre. This is where the Maclaren F1 cars come from. Sure they have plenty of F1 cars lying around, however, the building has some ethos to it - attention to detail, supreme cleanliness and an air of excellence. It is a complete contrast to your typical car garage. None of it is fake, although I am sure the 'OCD' could drive you mad. Inspiration can also be drawn from places like Europe where tech companies have taken space in areas that were once used for other things. The character of the old industry - e.g. a dockside building or mill - is inherited and you have something that is repurposed rather than faked. Anyway, I like to think that there are plenty of office spaces that aren't Google cheesy or grey cubicles but something with character born out of heritage or instilled from some company ethos.
judk 13y ago
Aaron was courageous to post his inner monologue for all the world to dissect, but his judgemental opinions carry the scent of a teenager trying to act jaded so he can fit in with adults.

by raldi 13y ago

sanderjd 13y ago

Presumably one that is somewhere between those two extremes...

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
raldi 13y ago
I actually have direct personal experience with both of his "extremes" -- I worked in the office he described as "gray" from 2008 to 2011, and I've been working in various Google offices ever since. There's really not that much of a gap between the two.

shmerl 13y ago

This one doesn't look gray: http://www.businessinsider.com/inside-mozillas-amazing-office-space-in-san-francisco-2012-3?op=1 http://www.businessinsider.com/inside-mozillas-amazing-offic...

jrockway 13y ago
This, incidentally, is the same building that Google San Francisco is in.
- aiiane 13y ago
  Not quite. Same complex, but we're the building next door.
  - jrockway 13y ago
    Oh yeah, there's that weird arch thing that makes them look like they're connected, but they're completely separated. Confusing.
- bmmayer1 13y ago
  Thank you for saying "incidentally" instead of "ironically." You are one in a million.
  - jrockway 13y ago
    Ironically, I was wrong about the buildings.
    - raldi 13y ago
      Incidentally, I believe the building has ironic columns.
      - dekhn 13y ago
        dorian, actually.
absconditus 13y ago
The building appears to be better than average, but the workspaces look pretty horrible.
- swift 13y ago
  They're actually pretty good. Sit/stand electric desks all around, and lots of great spaces throughout the building if you get tired of your desk and want a change of pace. I was spoiled in previous jobs by having my own office, but short of that I think Mozilla SF is about as good as it gets.

sliverstorm 13y ago

I have to think his head was wired differently than most of us.

git-pull 13y ago
Prodigies tend to receive a lot of encouragement and enabling. Ying and yang, Too much nurturing can be toxic.
- dekhn 13y ago
  What makes you think Aaron was a prodigy? Please cite specific facts or details; be careful because the press makes claims about his achievements which aren't completely accurate. He seemed intelligent perhaps a bit more than the typical person, but profoundly unwise in many ways (if you want to achieve a goal, do so in a way that achieves the goal, rather than the spectacularly inefficient, risky, and ultimately unproductive things he worked on).
  - git-pull 13y ago
    Please cite specific facts or details; be careful because the press makes claims about his [Aaron Swartz] achievements which aren't completely accurate Curiosity stoked. What are some misconceptions about Swartz?
    - raldi 13y ago
      A lot of people interpret "Aaron worked on RSS 1.0" as "Aaron was involved in creating RSS", but in fact, he had almost nothing to do with that. There were many versions of RSS prior to v1.0, and it was already pretty established by the time he got involved. And actually, the standard had already forked before that point, and the one that ended up being called "RSS 1.0" was the less-popular fork that never really went anywhere. You'll notice that biographies of Aaron never really mention what part of RSS he supposedly played a role in creating. He also tends to get a lot of credit for founding reddit, but that's like saying Steve Case was a founder of Warner Brothers. And he gets credit for helping stop SOPA, but again, it's usually expressed as a vague statement that doesn't actually cite any kind of specific examples of how he made a contribution. I'm not aware of any politician mentioning Aaron or Demand Progress as being a part of their decisionmaking process, or any of the corporations that held anti-SOPA campaigns mentioning that DP was in any way a leader in that movement.

calibraxis 13y ago

To use Hacker News' main rhetorical meme, what would Steve Jobs say? When he found virtually all computer design schlocky, I'm sure people rolled their eyes. I haven't visited Apple; for all I know, they have the same dull corporate office mindset as anywhere. But it wouldn't be surprising for an idealized Steve Jobs to find the usual workplaces repellent to any halfway creative soul.

jonny_eh 13y ago
The point was that Aaron found a dull grey "grown up" office dreary, but found the colourful and playful atmosphere of Google "infantalizing".

Theodores 13y ago

Actually I think that quite a few offices would have met with his approval. It is not a choice between grey cubes and zany beanbag chairs + silly toys, there are other factors. I spent a while working for the UK civil service - the ultimate in 'grey'! However, our office was above an aquarium, our research was in oceanography and, as a consequence, we had an amazing foyer (the public aquarium) with a fantastic view out to sea overlooking the harbour (probably the best view in town). The hallways had fish-tanks in them complete with fish that were neither to eat or for decoration, there were 'bits of boat' lying around plus all kinds of sea-going instrumentation. There were plants too, not the sort you get from the garden centre, but I never paid attention to them enough to find out what they were there for. Amongst all of this fun-looking stuff there was a pretty big machine room and half the people there were purely computing staff. Importantly all of it was the real deal. None of it was fake, just purchased to give some novelty ambience to the office. It all had purpose, but fun was allowed too, within reason. Hallways would have plenty of interesting pictures, you know, the team at the base in the Antarctic, some satellite imagery of an algae bloom, that sort of stuff. There are plenty of other offices that have some amazing ambience to them. Television production facilities are another example, where there are zany fake things but they are props used for some show or other. Even relatively humble factories making things like cardboard boxes can have cool offices attached, overlooking the factory floor. The problem I have with Google style offices is that it is entirely fake. The distractions would drive me mad. Everyone knows it is fake. At the same time there is something sick about totally grey cubicles, i.e. with a tech company that just sells software. So, what to do with an IT company that has no 'fascinating product' made on site? Some inspiration can be found in the Maclaren Technology Centre. This is where the Maclaren F1 cars come from. Sure they have plenty of F1 cars lying around, however, the building has some ethos to it - attention to detail, supreme cleanliness and an air of excellence. It is a complete contrast to your typical car garage. None of it is fake, although I am sure the 'OCD' could drive you mad. Inspiration can also be drawn from places like Europe where tech companies have taken space in areas that were once used for other things. The character of the old industry - e.g. a dockside building or mill - is inherited and you have something that is repurposed rather than faked. Anyway, I like to think that there are plenty of office spaces that aren't Google cheesy or grey cubicles but something with character born out of heritage or instilled from some company ethos.

judk 13y ago

Aaron was courageous to post his inner monologue for all the world to dissect, but his judgemental opinions carry the scent of a teenager trying to act jaded so he can fit in with adults.