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I used to be irritated by the number of "welfare moms" I see around town with smartphones. Certainly they should focus on their shoddily-clothen children first

I used to be irritated by the number of "welfare moms" I see around town with smartphones. Certainly they should focus on their shoddily-clothen children first, right? Well I shared that thought with my brother, who has more experience with these kinds of things, and he explained that their smartphone is their only Internet connection. With Internet access becoming a necessary utility, a smartphone is the cheapest entry point to the Internet. Now I don't judge.

al2o3cr 13y ago
You can identify "welfare moms"? You should totally post an article describing how you've managed to ID the economic status of people remotely. Either that, or check your goddamn privilege and stop making assumptions about people.
- forgottenpass 13y ago
  check your goddamn privilege You do know that this is hurting, not helping, your case right? Unless your goal is to yell until everyone agrees with you, in which case be my guest.
  - dovel 13y ago
    Being genuine here. I agree with the general sentiment of the over the top outraged post you quoted but obviously, as pointed out, it is not the best way of putting it. However, I agree that people shouldn't need to be given a reason to not judge someone else for a variety of reasons, especially the number of judgments going on in his post. 1) that being on welfare and having a child is a negative 2) that a mother with a child on welfare should not own a smart phone 3) that children who are clothed shoddily are in some way affecting the children? The children do not know what is shoddy, us adults and out class biases place that on them 4) that a mother on welfare with a child who is clothed shoddily should not own a smartphone / mother neglects child because she can't dress her child well but has a smartphone. So with those put out there. I find it personally difficult to read these types of posts because I am aware that even the slightest aggression or looking down on someone in an explanation of why you shouldn't say or think in that way generates massive controversy, as it is here, but in this case they is be overly hostile. And seriously, outrage is generated by people around these parts of the web for what they see as political correctness OTT but in reality it is a network of assumptions and judgements etc that create hostility, and I see attitudes such as the one this guy said he had before his brother pointed the flaws out to him as a problem. So, my question which I have long windedly led you to is - how would you approach someone on this topic with the intention of persuading them that judgment is really irrelevant to any situation you are in, especially if you are judging people less well off than yourself.
    - forgottenpass 13y ago
      So, my question which I have long windedly led you to is - how would you approach someone on this topic with the intention of persuading them that judgment is really irrelevant to any situation you are in, especially if you are judging people less well off than yourself. Like any disagreement, I don't know what I'll say in advance, because it's such a situational on-the-fly decision. I know my limited chunk of understanding on the issues and where I stand on them, that's all the preparation I need. Using that I can keep the conversation going instead of reciting prepared talking points. Especially not talking points from the Internet I don't fully comprehend but am are assured are right. Even if I don't change someone's mind in the slightest, I'd rather talk over the issue and understand a perspective I don't agree with instead of showing off just how right I am.
- pc86 13y ago
  Please go back to Reddit with this nonsense.
- babblingdweeb 13y ago
  While I apprecaite your passion...I think there is one thing worth mentioning about generalpf's post: they stated how someone informed them of something they had not known, they are openly stating they realize they were wrong in their original assumption, and they are now spreading that same information to others in the hopes (I assume) of correcting others who might feel the same as they previously did. When looking at any problem, social or otherwise, the newly informed that become champions are just as important to the very passionate and an entire movement. We don't need to say "Good job" every time someone turns around, but we don't need to beat them up either. (edit) My apologies, looks like I commented off thread...this was in response to forgotten pass' comment.
  - rokhayakebe 13y ago
    * they are openly stating they realize they were wrong in their original assumption* You do not get it boss. He did not say he was wrong about assuming their social status, but he was in mistake for assuming they had better spend their money else where other than on a smartphone. For all we know he still looks at those people as "welfare moms."
    - Dylan16807 13y ago
      Is welfare mom an insult I wasn't aware of? Assuming someone has shoddy clothes because they can't afford better seems reasonable to me. It would be insulting only to imply that they're wasting their money and neglecting important things on purpose. Edit: I mean I'm aware of 'welfare queen' as an insult but I've never seen 'welfare mom' have that same meaning, or anything other than 'mom on welfare'. And when you're talking about socioeconomic status 'welfare' doesn't have to be quite literal, just signifying a level of income.
      - derefr 13y ago
        I have met women whose goal in life is to become a single mother, with the government as the breadwinner. (And then to have more children, since pay-out rises in proportion to number of children, and "being thrifty" can leave money free per-child, so the more children you have, the more money you keep.) If "welfare mom" was an insult, it would probably refer to that.
- theorique 13y ago
  check your goddamn privilege What I'm checking right now is whether I'm on tumblr. Strange, I don't seem to be.
- Dylan16807 13y ago
  Yeah! He should check his privilege in comparison to... oh wait he's not allowed to compare because that would be assuming. And you assume that generalpf has privilege based on significant but not-certain attributes they show... interesting.
- thedrifting 13y ago
  You can identify "welfare moms"? Women using EBT cards at the grocery store with their kids? Not sure what is so difficult to identify. check your goddamn privilege These kinds of hackneyed ad-hominem classist catchprases really do not contribute to the conversation.

al2o3cr 13y ago

You can identify "welfare moms"? You should totally post an article describing how you've managed to ID the economic status of people remotely. Either that, or check your goddamn privilege and stop making assumptions about people.

forgottenpass 13y ago
check your goddamn privilege You do know that this is hurting, not helping, your case right? Unless your goal is to yell until everyone agrees with you, in which case be my guest.
- dovel 13y ago
  Being genuine here. I agree with the general sentiment of the over the top outraged post you quoted but obviously, as pointed out, it is not the best way of putting it. However, I agree that people shouldn't need to be given a reason to not judge someone else for a variety of reasons, especially the number of judgments going on in his post. 1) that being on welfare and having a child is a negative 2) that a mother with a child on welfare should not own a smart phone 3) that children who are clothed shoddily are in some way affecting the children? The children do not know what is shoddy, us adults and out class biases place that on them 4) that a mother on welfare with a child who is clothed shoddily should not own a smartphone / mother neglects child because she can't dress her child well but has a smartphone. So with those put out there. I find it personally difficult to read these types of posts because I am aware that even the slightest aggression or looking down on someone in an explanation of why you shouldn't say or think in that way generates massive controversy, as it is here, but in this case they is be overly hostile. And seriously, outrage is generated by people around these parts of the web for what they see as political correctness OTT but in reality it is a network of assumptions and judgements etc that create hostility, and I see attitudes such as the one this guy said he had before his brother pointed the flaws out to him as a problem. So, my question which I have long windedly led you to is - how would you approach someone on this topic with the intention of persuading them that judgment is really irrelevant to any situation you are in, especially if you are judging people less well off than yourself.
  - forgottenpass 13y ago
    So, my question which I have long windedly led you to is - how would you approach someone on this topic with the intention of persuading them that judgment is really irrelevant to any situation you are in, especially if you are judging people less well off than yourself. Like any disagreement, I don't know what I'll say in advance, because it's such a situational on-the-fly decision. I know my limited chunk of understanding on the issues and where I stand on them, that's all the preparation I need. Using that I can keep the conversation going instead of reciting prepared talking points. Especially not talking points from the Internet I don't fully comprehend but am are assured are right. Even if I don't change someone's mind in the slightest, I'd rather talk over the issue and understand a perspective I don't agree with instead of showing off just how right I am.
pc86 13y ago
Please go back to Reddit with this nonsense.
babblingdweeb 13y ago
While I apprecaite your passion...I think there is one thing worth mentioning about generalpf's post: they stated how someone informed them of something they had not known, they are openly stating they realize they were wrong in their original assumption, and they are now spreading that same information to others in the hopes (I assume) of correcting others who might feel the same as they previously did. When looking at any problem, social or otherwise, the newly informed that become champions are just as important to the very passionate and an entire movement. We don't need to say "Good job" every time someone turns around, but we don't need to beat them up either. (edit) My apologies, looks like I commented off thread...this was in response to forgotten pass' comment.
- rokhayakebe 13y ago
  * they are openly stating they realize they were wrong in their original assumption* You do not get it boss. He did not say he was wrong about assuming their social status, but he was in mistake for assuming they had better spend their money else where other than on a smartphone. For all we know he still looks at those people as "welfare moms."
  - Dylan16807 13y ago
    Is welfare mom an insult I wasn't aware of? Assuming someone has shoddy clothes because they can't afford better seems reasonable to me. It would be insulting only to imply that they're wasting their money and neglecting important things on purpose. Edit: I mean I'm aware of 'welfare queen' as an insult but I've never seen 'welfare mom' have that same meaning, or anything other than 'mom on welfare'. And when you're talking about socioeconomic status 'welfare' doesn't have to be quite literal, just signifying a level of income.
    - derefr 13y ago
      I have met women whose goal in life is to become a single mother, with the government as the breadwinner. (And then to have more children, since pay-out rises in proportion to number of children, and "being thrifty" can leave money free per-child, so the more children you have, the more money you keep.) If "welfare mom" was an insult, it would probably refer to that.
theorique 13y ago
check your goddamn privilege What I'm checking right now is whether I'm on tumblr. Strange, I don't seem to be.
Dylan16807 13y ago
Yeah! He should check his privilege in comparison to... oh wait he's not allowed to compare because that would be assuming. And you assume that generalpf has privilege based on significant but not-certain attributes they show... interesting.
thedrifting 13y ago
You can identify "welfare moms"? Women using EBT cards at the grocery store with their kids? Not sure what is so difficult to identify. check your goddamn privilege These kinds of hackneyed ad-hominem classist catchprases really do not contribute to the conversation.