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Terrorism has won. Twelve years later, the country that was so proud to be "leader of the free world" is now affected by a cancer named secrecy and defiance ;

Terrorism has won. Twelve years later, the country that was so proud to be "leader of the free world" is now affected by a cancer named secrecy and defiance ; defiance from government toward people and defiance from people toward government (well, that last part is not new, but it's not baseless anymore, which make a huge difference). US should definitely work on trust, especially because their main strength is business and that can't exist without trust.

e12e 13y ago
I'm afraid this all dates back further than 12 years (eg: see Binning at hope 9). There's little evidence the true motivation was to defeat terrorism (if for no other reason than domestic terrorism falls under the fbi, not nsa -- and is and has been arguably the bigger threat).
- tinfoil007 13y ago
  William Binney's keynote at HOPE 9: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxnp2Sz59p8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxnp2Sz59p8 all talks: http://www.hopenumbernine.net/schedule/ http://www.hopenumbernine.net/schedule/
  - anoncowherd 13y ago
    "I played a central role in setting up this all-encompassing surveillance, but now that it's been in operation for years, I realize it could be used for naughty things. It's time to blow the whistle on this!" Binney's case is interesting, to say the least.
  - e12e 13y ago
    thanks for the link and correction (of Binney's name).
- anoncowherd 13y ago
  >> There's little evidence the true motivation was to defeat terrorism It was never about terrorism. In fact, governments like terrorism because it gives them an excuse to grab more power and strip people of their liberties. The surveillance is about control, power and maintaining it. It's meant to be used against the general populace.
InclinedPlane 13y ago
Terrorism is almost orthogonal to this. This is statism, which has been on the rise off and on through from the 20th century onward and has taken a significant uptick in the last few decades. Even in the freest countries there has still been a rampant diminution of personal responsibility and individualism in preference to state control, regulation, legal expansionism, and so on. The war on drugs is a big part of that. But other things are too, things that people still have a hard time grappling with intellectually. Labor laws and the welfare state, for example, tend not to actually benefit those at the bottom, they tend to benefit those at the top, no matter the intentions. But in the meantime, a lot more of our money is taken under government control, and a lot more of our daily activities as well. Our country may one day rediscover the value of liberty, but for now it's still a huge messy muddle.

e12e 13y ago

I'm afraid this all dates back further than 12 years (eg: see Binning at hope 9). There's little evidence the true motivation was to defeat terrorism (if for no other reason than domestic terrorism falls under the fbi, not nsa -- and is and has been arguably the bigger threat).

tinfoil007 13y ago
William Binney's keynote at HOPE 9: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxnp2Sz59p8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxnp2Sz59p8 all talks: http://www.hopenumbernine.net/schedule/ http://www.hopenumbernine.net/schedule/
- anoncowherd 13y ago
  "I played a central role in setting up this all-encompassing surveillance, but now that it's been in operation for years, I realize it could be used for naughty things. It's time to blow the whistle on this!" Binney's case is interesting, to say the least.
- e12e 13y ago
  thanks for the link and correction (of Binney's name).
anoncowherd 13y ago
>> There's little evidence the true motivation was to defeat terrorism It was never about terrorism. In fact, governments like terrorism because it gives them an excuse to grab more power and strip people of their liberties. The surveillance is about control, power and maintaining it. It's meant to be used against the general populace.

InclinedPlane 13y ago

Terrorism is almost orthogonal to this. This is statism, which has been on the rise off and on through from the 20th century onward and has taken a significant uptick in the last few decades. Even in the freest countries there has still been a rampant diminution of personal responsibility and individualism in preference to state control, regulation, legal expansionism, and so on. The war on drugs is a big part of that. But other things are too, things that people still have a hard time grappling with intellectually. Labor laws and the welfare state, for example, tend not to actually benefit those at the bottom, they tend to benefit those at the top, no matter the intentions. But in the meantime, a lot more of our money is taken under government control, and a lot more of our daily activities as well. Our country may one day rediscover the value of liberty, but for now it's still a huge messy muddle.