5 ms·

Seriously? I'm kind of shocked at the raw stupidity of this comment- just a bunch of people thrilled to have an excuse to fuck up a bus huh? These are actual r

by tedivm 13y ago

Seriously? I'm kind of shocked at the raw stupidity of this comment- just a bunch of people thrilled to have an excuse to fuck up a bus huh? These are actual real problems that need actual solutions, and the elitist attitudes really need to stop. Just because we know technology doesn't make us better than those who don't, and for the bay area to be a sustainable location it really needs all members of the community to work together. The tech companies have failed at this, and that's why these protests are happening. Not because people want to 'fuck things up'. As far as the Chicago bit goes- yeah, it's not a bad city. I feel the bay area could learn a lot from it when it comes to scaling things up. I can live without the snow though.

sillysaurus2 13y ago
EDIT: Nevermind, this comment thread is a little toxic and I'd rather not add to its length.
cynicalkane 13y ago
If you always try to think in terms of the "actual real problems" you will find yourself unable to make judgments about a lot of obviously terrible ideas, so long as they are distantly related to an "actual problem".
belluchan 13y ago
> the elitist attitudes really need to stop I hope everyone of these protesters standing in the way of the bus gets arrested (as opposed to protestors standing aside - no problems with them). It's not elitist to want people to be civil. It's not elitist to want to go to work. There's no solution to gentrification. Not a single one. There's nothing to be done about private entities buying private property at a price that the buyer and seller agree on. The next door neighbor has no say whatsoever over the process unless there's a pre-existing homeowner's association. If you aren't happy with it, tough luck. Annoying people isn't going to help anyone. Because there's absolutely nothing that can be done, short of a constitutional amendment that would never see the light of day.
- tedivm 13y ago
  If you're going to talk about following the law, how about the fact that the bus is illegally parked in a public bus stop? That's why these guys are protesting, because the individuals in the city have one set of laws they're supposed to follow while the tech companies are apparently immune. Seriously, read what these people are saying. They've complained about the fact that Muni buses are dumping people into the middle of the road because these tech buses are literally parking themselves in the muni bus stops to pick people up. If any other citizen did this it would be a $271 fine, but for some reason having a tech company behind you means you're above the law. The two tiered system- the economic apartheid- is the real issue here.
  - belluchan 13y ago
    > If you're going to talk about following the law, how about the fact that the bus is illegally parked in a public bus stop? Well that's a perfectly OK thing to protest, but I'm not sure it's illegal though. Have you called the city and asked? I bet they have permission. Illegal means violating the law, are they violating the law or you just unhappy about the arrangement. I can see a valid argument being made about it not being a good thing, but I doubt it's illegal. If it is illegal just call the police? What do they say?
    - yapcguy 13y ago
      Yes it's illegal. The city has turned a blind eye to the problem, but now it's gotten too big, with buses stopping everywhere. The city says there may be a trial next year with designated bus stops being used by these private buses for cash, but until then, the law is being flouted. If you got a car or van and started transporting people across the city using the public bus stops, sooner or later, you would be fined and probably arrested too.
      - mc32 13y ago
        So affected cities have a few choices: fine every delivery vehicle and bus which parks 'illegally or illegally uses municipal bus stops. Modify code to allow stop sharing. Disallow non municipal buses from using municipal bus stops. Allow them to use side street. Or, if they mean to disallow private buses altogether, prepare for an increase in traffic and commute times. Interestingly, I don't recall protesters protesting the delivery vehicles who constantly block traffic lanes all over SF. That gives me pause and think the protesters' 'narrative' is questionable.
znowi 13y ago
Be careful when you oppose tptacek. He's a highly karmic figure on HN and has an army of ardent followers who can downvote you to oblivion fairly quickly :)
rdl 13y ago
Actually, if you live in Oakland, you'll realize that indeed, there are a lot of people looking for an excuse just to fuck up a bus. Look at the difference between the SF and Oakland protests on the same issue.
tzs 13y ago
Yes, there are actual real problems that need actual solution. These people, however, contributed nothing whatsoever to solving those problems.
mbrameld 13y ago
> I'm kind of shocked at the raw stupidity of this comment > the elitist attitudes really need to stop Hi pot, it's me the kettle. Guess what? You're BLACK!

by tedivm 13y ago

sillysaurus2 13y ago

EDIT: Nevermind, this comment thread is a little toxic and I'd rather not add to its length.

cynicalkane 13y ago

If you always try to think in terms of the "actual real problems" you will find yourself unable to make judgments about a lot of obviously terrible ideas, so long as they are distantly related to an "actual problem".

belluchan 13y ago

> the elitist attitudes really need to stop I hope everyone of these protesters standing in the way of the bus gets arrested (as opposed to protestors standing aside - no problems with them). It's not elitist to want people to be civil. It's not elitist to want to go to work. There's no solution to gentrification. Not a single one. There's nothing to be done about private entities buying private property at a price that the buyer and seller agree on. The next door neighbor has no say whatsoever over the process unless there's a pre-existing homeowner's association. If you aren't happy with it, tough luck. Annoying people isn't going to help anyone. Because there's absolutely nothing that can be done, short of a constitutional amendment that would never see the light of day.

tedivm 13y ago
If you're going to talk about following the law, how about the fact that the bus is illegally parked in a public bus stop? That's why these guys are protesting, because the individuals in the city have one set of laws they're supposed to follow while the tech companies are apparently immune. Seriously, read what these people are saying. They've complained about the fact that Muni buses are dumping people into the middle of the road because these tech buses are literally parking themselves in the muni bus stops to pick people up. If any other citizen did this it would be a $271 fine, but for some reason having a tech company behind you means you're above the law. The two tiered system- the economic apartheid- is the real issue here.
- belluchan 13y ago
  > If you're going to talk about following the law, how about the fact that the bus is illegally parked in a public bus stop? Well that's a perfectly OK thing to protest, but I'm not sure it's illegal though. Have you called the city and asked? I bet they have permission. Illegal means violating the law, are they violating the law or you just unhappy about the arrangement. I can see a valid argument being made about it not being a good thing, but I doubt it's illegal. If it is illegal just call the police? What do they say?
  - yapcguy 13y ago
    Yes it's illegal. The city has turned a blind eye to the problem, but now it's gotten too big, with buses stopping everywhere. The city says there may be a trial next year with designated bus stops being used by these private buses for cash, but until then, the law is being flouted. If you got a car or van and started transporting people across the city using the public bus stops, sooner or later, you would be fined and probably arrested too.
    - mc32 13y ago
      So affected cities have a few choices: fine every delivery vehicle and bus which parks 'illegally or illegally uses municipal bus stops. Modify code to allow stop sharing. Disallow non municipal buses from using municipal bus stops. Allow them to use side street. Or, if they mean to disallow private buses altogether, prepare for an increase in traffic and commute times. Interestingly, I don't recall protesters protesting the delivery vehicles who constantly block traffic lanes all over SF. That gives me pause and think the protesters' 'narrative' is questionable.

znowi 13y ago

Be careful when you oppose tptacek. He's a highly karmic figure on HN and has an army of ardent followers who can downvote you to oblivion fairly quickly :)

rdl 13y ago

Actually, if you live in Oakland, you'll realize that indeed, there are a lot of people looking for an excuse just to fuck up a bus. Look at the difference between the SF and Oakland protests on the same issue.

tzs 13y ago

Yes, there are actual real problems that need actual solution. These people, however, contributed nothing whatsoever to solving those problems.

mbrameld 13y ago

> I'm kind of shocked at the raw stupidity of this comment > the elitist attitudes really need to stop Hi pot, it's me the kettle. Guess what? You're BLACK!