8 ms·

Startup Design Framework

47 points by eibrahim 13y ago

aioprisan 13y ago
As many have pointed out in the comments, the license allows for only one, personal use of the toolkit, making it more of a theme than a framework. You can't use this framework for more than one project/client and there isn't an equivalent "developer" license, that allows for developing unlimited projects based on that theme, like they usually do. I do love what they've come up with and the demo that you can download is top notch, but both the license and the steep price point don't make much sense to me.
- jdee 13y ago
  I kind of agree. I'm all for people getting paid, but the idea of a framework that I can only use once feels odd. Isnt this just a big template that has then been split into separate elements? Thats not too difficult to do with a $10 template. A lot of love has obviously gone into this, but the market positioning isnt that convincing at a $249 price point.
- bybjorn 13y ago
  Thanks, I didn't know about the license restriction - I assumed you'd be able to use it for as many websites you wish (hence the "framework" name). I guess I'll wait until a developer license comes out then.
codebeaker 13y ago
It certainly doesn't help that no matter where I seem to go on their site, I always come back to the video. I couldn't find the demo, or any screenshots of what it looked like, or what components it contained. So much for good design.
- bwilliams 13y ago
  Yeah, I looked around for something other than a video with no luck. Even the video doesn't show any content.
- c3o 13y ago
  You just need to scroll down from the video. I missed that too... I fault Apple for killing scroll bars.
  - onion2k 13y ago
    Apple are partly to blame, but the trend for 'full screen background' websites doesn't help. If the content obviously continued below the fold you'd scroll without needing a prompt. Websites shouldn't be designed in ways that make you have to learn to check if there's more content hiding under what you're seeing.
    - girvo 13y ago
      I never have the issue on Firefox on my Linux laptop, but I always run into issues with not knowing to scroll on my Mac/Safari, simply because the scrollbar doesn't exist. On Linux, a quick glance to the right and I know that there is extra content that I can scroll to see. That doesn't exist on Safari. It's annoying, even if it is pretty >_>
- agilebyte 13y ago
  http://designmodo.github.io/startup-demo/framework/samples/sample-03/index.html http://designmodo.github.io/startup-demo/framework/samples/s... http://designmodo.github.io/startup-demo/framework/samples/sample-04/index.html http://designmodo.github.io/startup-demo/framework/samples/s...
onion2k 13y ago
Looking at the marketing site, there's no overall navigation, there's hidden links (the carousels that don't look like carousels...), the screenshots can't be viewed in a bigger size with a lightbox, there's somewhat unnecessary animation, the code is littered with inline styles, there are empty tags, there are comments like "end content-wrapper" without a corresponding "start content-wrapper" comment… It looks lovely, no doubt about that, but for a $249 single-use license I would expect it to be backed up by bulletproof code. If that website is an example of what you end up with, it's not.
- bybjorn 13y ago
  The license is called "Developer license" which I at least associate with multiple use, and I don't see them specifically mention "single use only" (although I see that the text can be interpreted that way) .. http://designmodo.com/startup-license/ http://designmodo.com/startup-license/ EDIT: got a reply from them on twitter: https://twitter.com/Designmodo/status/412867217118605313 https://twitter.com/Designmodo/status/412867217118605313 You were right: "one license - one project."
  - fabiant7t 13y ago
    Being a non native speaker, I had no doubt that a developer licence saying "You have rights for royalty free use of our resources for any of your personal or commercial project." lacks the pluralization of project and is meant to allow using it on _any_ of your projects. Designmodo clearly stated it's one licence for one project. They should replace _any_ with _one_.
    - bybjorn 13y ago
      Agreed, also the naming "Developer license" implies multiple usage .. at least to me.
dylanrw 13y ago
I can hear the meeting now, "Let's say it's for startups and then, startups will buy it!", "Yah perfect!".
goldenkey 13y ago
I like the overall design, and the video is damn inspirational. Very fond of how they made little cardboard widgets and put the HTML on the back, cute :-) However I didn't even know there was anything below the fold, until I read this comment thread, looked like a video page, is all. And as I scrolled, the page lagged like a wild goose. Designers might not have the chops needed to analyze the JS onScroll render/paint cycle times. Scroll performance is so essential on a parallax scrolling effect - and there are so many hacks to get it done performant. Doesn't look like this makes the cut.
- xixixao 13y ago
  What hardware are you on, what browser are you using? Because I have a retina pro and loads of websites scroll much worse than this (f.e. http://foundation.zurb.com/learn/features.html http://foundation.zurb.com/learn/features.html). It also worked fairly well on my WP8. I'd say this is just a tradeoff between graphics and performance.
  - goldenkey 13y ago
    I'm on a macbook pro with a 1.8ghz i7 using Chrome/32.0.1700.41
franze 13y ago
hmmm, is the landingpage an actual example of the design framework they are promoting or not? i'm not 100% sure if it is, well ... http://www.webpagetest.org/video/view.php?id=131217_9H_A6M.1.0 http://www.webpagetest.org/video/view.php?id=131217_9H_A6M.1... you can have a beautiful design and a super cool responsive website, but if it takes 10 to 12s for above the fold content to be useable, you are missing the point and your users/customers.
tonywebster 13y ago
I wish they were more transparent about the components used for the site, specifically for licensing purposes. Example: The demo site uses Proxima Nova, which is loaded via Typekit. That's not an open source font, there's nothing documenting that they have a sublicensing/resale license, which means it's an added cost to someone to either license each weight of the typeface ($29 per weight, and I think I count 8 weights = $232). Alternatively, that font is only available in the Typekit $49.99/year plan, which imposes pageview limits. The typeface really seals the deal and adds to the emotion of the page, and could be a big disappointment or added cost to someone. Certainly, startups don't need the drama of being accused of copyright infringement.
- abcd_f 13y ago
  You can self-host Proxima Nova for $29 per weight ... drum-roll ... of one time payment. http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/marksimonson/proxima-nova/buy.html http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/marksimonson/proxima-nova/buy.h... PS. By the way, Mark Simonson was one of the first type designers to experiment with liberal web-friendly licensing and would you just look how well Proxima is doing these days.
tga 13y ago
Long website short, this is a fixed website theme (a nice large one at that), cut into slices. I don't see anything fundamentally different from anything you'd fish out of ThemeForest for 1/10 the price. From a startup design framework I would have expected multiple cohesive templates (web+email+business cards+letterhead+banner+tshirt+etc) with a good way of customizing everything at once (colours, fonts, spacing).
- baby 13y ago
  I'm pretty sure this is #1 on the frontpage because they gamed HN. I don't how it's different from all those themes. Except for the price and the landing page.
  - bybjorn 13y ago
    yes, they "gamed HN" by having an affiliate program ;-)
  - malditojavi 13y ago
    Dont' know if they gamed it or not, but I submitted same url without the crappy end a few hours ago before this one. HN is not able to detect doubled URLs?
- MasterScrat 13y ago
  > multiple cohesive templates (web+email+business cards+letterhead+banner+tshirt+etc) with a good way of customizing everything at once (colours, fonts, spacing) That's an interesting idea... Does anyone provide such a pack? I typically pick something from ThemeForest and adapt it myself, that would save quite some time.
- digitalengineer 13y ago
  If it's a quick and slick marketing-site you're after, try looking at http://modulz.co http://modulz.co for 49,- (disclaimer, beta-tester).
gklitt 13y ago
Am I alone in finding it absurd how this product is being marketed? I saw the title and expected some guidelines on how to build a business, and instead found some static website components and an over-the-top video. Their dramatization of their product reminded me of the Vooza parody video in its silliness.[1] To be clear, I have nothing wrong with the fact that these guys have created a useful set of website components...but having a pretty website is a miniscule part of building a successful company. [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-L3Kgc6Y7E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-L3Kgc6Y7E
- fhd2 13y ago
  Same here, certainly looks like an over the top parody of silly tech startups to me.
- sakri 13y ago
  The other day I saw http://www.knocktounlock.com/ http://www.knocktounlock.com/ and was convinced it was a brilliant comedy piece, but then left the site confused and unsure...
  - huhtenberg 13y ago
    That's actually pretty neat idea.
- parasight 13y ago
  Actually at first glance I wasn't sure if it is a parody.
moeedm 13y ago
A great way to look like everyone else!
moeedm 13y ago
My advice to startups: Hire a designer. Design is way more than a bunch of generic UI elements put together on a page. This will not help you and only further cloud your understanding of what design is, and it will hurt your start-up more than any good it will do. Trust me.
- l0gicpath 13y ago
  Even better, get a designer as a co-founder. Specially for startups bootstrapping. Really good designers are hard to find/likely already occupied or juggling multiple projects at a time. IMHO, design is a never ending process. You'll hire a good designer if you get lucky at your early days but then retaining them becomes exceptionally hard. I've found that having them onboard as a co-founder seems to be the best way to work through this.
  - moeedm 13y ago
    What irks me about a lot of startups is that they put a lot, i f not all the importance on Engineering talent — which is great, but if your attitude towards Design is "Oh we'll hire a contractor" or download something like this, then you will watch your competitors race past you. Companies like Square, Stripe value design, and it shows because they ultimately make better products that people want to use. If you have a startup, find design talent. They are out there and itching to make the next big thing.
  - rocco 13y ago
    Any idea where to find a good designer co-founder? I have finished code of my startup idea few months ago and currently I am still stuck cause my crappy web design skills.
    - dylanrw 13y ago
      They're everywhere. Pay attention to the products/projects you admire. Look for Dribbbler's that also discuss goals instead of just aesthetics, and also try and find the design posts/comments that are made on HN. They exist but I feel the good ones are an elusive bunch that are often considered/confused with engineers (and maybe that's because good thinking is just good thinking and isn't confined to one profession, but I digress...)
datphp 13y ago
Landing on a page and having an auto-play HD video as a background, then clicking on the play icon just to have a the same video poping up (and lagging like hell... this is the point where I hope the have a great concept) Then not being able to figure out what those guys sell... Then finally figuring out they're selling website design. Damn the irony...
zv 13y ago
PowerPoint Web2.0?
cmelbye 13y ago
Is it considered acceptable to post affiliate links on HN?
SmeelBe 13y ago
An amazing framework, a great step forward, beyond all the existing frameworks. I guess your main trump card is design…
duiker101 13y ago
So they made a bootstrap for money?
jongold 13y ago
Designmodo are kind of like cancer for the design industry.
irtefa 13y ago
I really like how it looks. However, the website is a little bit laggy when you scroll down. I wonder how they decided on the pricing model i.e. $249 for a single-user license. Not saying that it is unfair. Just asking if anyone has an idea.
parag_c_mehta 13y ago
Outrageous price. $249 for a single project to use some snippets ? What's wrong with themeforest designs ?

47 points by eibrahim 13y ago

As many have pointed out in the comments, the license allows for only one, personal use of the toolkit, making it more of a theme than a framework. You can't use this framework for more than one project/client and there isn't an equivalent "developer" license, that allows for developing unlimited projects based on that theme, like they usually do. I do love what they've come up with and the demo that you can download is top notch, but both the license and the steep price point don't make much sense to me.

jdee 13y ago
I kind of agree. I'm all for people getting paid, but the idea of a framework that I can only use once feels odd. Isnt this just a big template that has then been split into separate elements? Thats not too difficult to do with a $10 template. A lot of love has obviously gone into this, but the market positioning isnt that convincing at a $249 price point.
bybjorn 13y ago
Thanks, I didn't know about the license restriction - I assumed you'd be able to use it for as many websites you wish (hence the "framework" name). I guess I'll wait until a developer license comes out then.

codebeaker 13y ago

It certainly doesn't help that no matter where I seem to go on their site, I always come back to the video. I couldn't find the demo, or any screenshots of what it looked like, or what components it contained. So much for good design.

bwilliams 13y ago
Yeah, I looked around for something other than a video with no luck. Even the video doesn't show any content.
c3o 13y ago
You just need to scroll down from the video. I missed that too... I fault Apple for killing scroll bars.
- onion2k 13y ago
  Apple are partly to blame, but the trend for 'full screen background' websites doesn't help. If the content obviously continued below the fold you'd scroll without needing a prompt. Websites shouldn't be designed in ways that make you have to learn to check if there's more content hiding under what you're seeing.
  - girvo 13y ago
    I never have the issue on Firefox on my Linux laptop, but I always run into issues with not knowing to scroll on my Mac/Safari, simply because the scrollbar doesn't exist. On Linux, a quick glance to the right and I know that there is extra content that I can scroll to see. That doesn't exist on Safari. It's annoying, even if it is pretty >_>
agilebyte 13y ago
http://designmodo.github.io/startup-demo/framework/samples/sample-03/index.html http://designmodo.github.io/startup-demo/framework/samples/s... http://designmodo.github.io/startup-demo/framework/samples/sample-04/index.html http://designmodo.github.io/startup-demo/framework/samples/s...

onion2k 13y ago

Looking at the marketing site, there's no overall navigation, there's hidden links (the carousels that don't look like carousels...), the screenshots can't be viewed in a bigger size with a lightbox, there's somewhat unnecessary animation, the code is littered with inline styles, there are empty tags, there are comments like "end content-wrapper" without a corresponding "start content-wrapper" comment… It looks lovely, no doubt about that, but for a $249 single-use license I would expect it to be backed up by bulletproof code. If that website is an example of what you end up with, it's not.

bybjorn 13y ago
The license is called "Developer license" which I at least associate with multiple use, and I don't see them specifically mention "single use only" (although I see that the text can be interpreted that way) .. http://designmodo.com/startup-license/ http://designmodo.com/startup-license/ EDIT: got a reply from them on twitter: https://twitter.com/Designmodo/status/412867217118605313 https://twitter.com/Designmodo/status/412867217118605313 You were right: "one license - one project."
- fabiant7t 13y ago
  Being a non native speaker, I had no doubt that a developer licence saying "You have rights for royalty free use of our resources for any of your personal or commercial project." lacks the pluralization of project and is meant to allow using it on _any_ of your projects. Designmodo clearly stated it's one licence for one project. They should replace _any_ with _one_.
  - bybjorn 13y ago
    Agreed, also the naming "Developer license" implies multiple usage .. at least to me.

dylanrw 13y ago

I can hear the meeting now, "Let's say it's for startups and then, startups will buy it!", "Yah perfect!".

goldenkey 13y ago

I like the overall design, and the video is damn inspirational. Very fond of how they made little cardboard widgets and put the HTML on the back, cute :-) However I didn't even know there was anything below the fold, until I read this comment thread, looked like a video page, is all. And as I scrolled, the page lagged like a wild goose. Designers might not have the chops needed to analyze the JS onScroll render/paint cycle times. Scroll performance is so essential on a parallax scrolling effect - and there are so many hacks to get it done performant. Doesn't look like this makes the cut.

xixixao 13y ago
What hardware are you on, what browser are you using? Because I have a retina pro and loads of websites scroll much worse than this (f.e. http://foundation.zurb.com/learn/features.html http://foundation.zurb.com/learn/features.html). It also worked fairly well on my WP8. I'd say this is just a tradeoff between graphics and performance.
- goldenkey 13y ago
  I'm on a macbook pro with a 1.8ghz i7 using Chrome/32.0.1700.41

franze 13y ago

hmmm, is the landingpage an actual example of the design framework they are promoting or not? i'm not 100% sure if it is, well ... http://www.webpagetest.org/video/view.php?id=131217_9H_A6M.1.0 http://www.webpagetest.org/video/view.php?id=131217_9H_A6M.1... you can have a beautiful design and a super cool responsive website, but if it takes 10 to 12s for above the fold content to be useable, you are missing the point and your users/customers.

tonywebster 13y ago

I wish they were more transparent about the components used for the site, specifically for licensing purposes. Example: The demo site uses Proxima Nova, which is loaded via Typekit. That's not an open source font, there's nothing documenting that they have a sublicensing/resale license, which means it's an added cost to someone to either license each weight of the typeface ($29 per weight, and I think I count 8 weights = $232). Alternatively, that font is only available in the Typekit $49.99/year plan, which imposes pageview limits. The typeface really seals the deal and adds to the emotion of the page, and could be a big disappointment or added cost to someone. Certainly, startups don't need the drama of being accused of copyright infringement.

abcd_f 13y ago
You can self-host Proxima Nova for $29 per weight ... drum-roll ... of one time payment. http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/marksimonson/proxima-nova/buy.html http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/marksimonson/proxima-nova/buy.h... PS. By the way, Mark Simonson was one of the first type designers to experiment with liberal web-friendly licensing and would you just look how well Proxima is doing these days.

tga 13y ago

Long website short, this is a fixed website theme (a nice large one at that), cut into slices. I don't see anything fundamentally different from anything you'd fish out of ThemeForest for 1/10 the price. From a startup design framework I would have expected multiple cohesive templates (web+email+business cards+letterhead+banner+tshirt+etc) with a good way of customizing everything at once (colours, fonts, spacing).

baby 13y ago
I'm pretty sure this is #1 on the frontpage because they gamed HN. I don't how it's different from all those themes. Except for the price and the landing page.
- bybjorn 13y ago
  yes, they "gamed HN" by having an affiliate program ;-)
- malditojavi 13y ago
  Dont' know if they gamed it or not, but I submitted same url without the crappy end a few hours ago before this one. HN is not able to detect doubled URLs?
MasterScrat 13y ago
> multiple cohesive templates (web+email+business cards+letterhead+banner+tshirt+etc) with a good way of customizing everything at once (colours, fonts, spacing) That's an interesting idea... Does anyone provide such a pack? I typically pick something from ThemeForest and adapt it myself, that would save quite some time.
digitalengineer 13y ago
If it's a quick and slick marketing-site you're after, try looking at http://modulz.co http://modulz.co for 49,- (disclaimer, beta-tester).

gklitt 13y ago

Am I alone in finding it absurd how this product is being marketed? I saw the title and expected some guidelines on how to build a business, and instead found some static website components and an over-the-top video. Their dramatization of their product reminded me of the Vooza parody video in its silliness.[1] To be clear, I have nothing wrong with the fact that these guys have created a useful set of website components...but having a pretty website is a miniscule part of building a successful company. [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-L3Kgc6Y7E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-L3Kgc6Y7E

fhd2 13y ago
Same here, certainly looks like an over the top parody of silly tech startups to me.
sakri 13y ago
The other day I saw http://www.knocktounlock.com/ http://www.knocktounlock.com/ and was convinced it was a brilliant comedy piece, but then left the site confused and unsure...
- huhtenberg 13y ago
  That's actually pretty neat idea.
parasight 13y ago
Actually at first glance I wasn't sure if it is a parody.

moeedm 13y ago

A great way to look like everyone else!

moeedm 13y ago

My advice to startups: Hire a designer. Design is way more than a bunch of generic UI elements put together on a page. This will not help you and only further cloud your understanding of what design is, and it will hurt your start-up more than any good it will do. Trust me.

l0gicpath 13y ago
Even better, get a designer as a co-founder. Specially for startups bootstrapping. Really good designers are hard to find/likely already occupied or juggling multiple projects at a time. IMHO, design is a never ending process. You'll hire a good designer if you get lucky at your early days but then retaining them becomes exceptionally hard. I've found that having them onboard as a co-founder seems to be the best way to work through this.
- moeedm 13y ago
  What irks me about a lot of startups is that they put a lot, i f not all the importance on Engineering talent — which is great, but if your attitude towards Design is "Oh we'll hire a contractor" or download something like this, then you will watch your competitors race past you. Companies like Square, Stripe value design, and it shows because they ultimately make better products that people want to use. If you have a startup, find design talent. They are out there and itching to make the next big thing.
- rocco 13y ago
  Any idea where to find a good designer co-founder? I have finished code of my startup idea few months ago and currently I am still stuck cause my crappy web design skills.
  - dylanrw 13y ago
    They're everywhere. Pay attention to the products/projects you admire. Look for Dribbbler's that also discuss goals instead of just aesthetics, and also try and find the design posts/comments that are made on HN. They exist but I feel the good ones are an elusive bunch that are often considered/confused with engineers (and maybe that's because good thinking is just good thinking and isn't confined to one profession, but I digress...)

datphp 13y ago

Landing on a page and having an auto-play HD video as a background, then clicking on the play icon just to have a the same video poping up (and lagging like hell... this is the point where I hope the have a great concept) Then not being able to figure out what those guys sell... Then finally figuring out they're selling website design. Damn the irony...

zv 13y ago

PowerPoint Web2.0?

cmelbye 13y ago

Is it considered acceptable to post affiliate links on HN?

SmeelBe 13y ago

An amazing framework, a great step forward, beyond all the existing frameworks. I guess your main trump card is design…

duiker101 13y ago

So they made a bootstrap for money?

jongold 13y ago

Designmodo are kind of like cancer for the design industry.

irtefa 13y ago

I really like how it looks. However, the website is a little bit laggy when you scroll down. I wonder how they decided on the pricing model i.e. $249 for a single-user license. Not saying that it is unfair. Just asking if anyone has an idea.

parag_c_mehta 13y ago

Outrageous price. $249 for a single project to use some snippets ? What's wrong with themeforest designs ?