6 ms·

Facebook knows you didn’t publish that status update you started writing

46 points by forgotAgain 13y ago

jds375 13y ago
Link to relevant paper. It's quite interesting: http://www.aaai.org/ocs/index.php/ICWSM/ICWSM13/paper/view/6093 http://www.aaai.org/ocs/index.php/ICWSM/ICWSM13/paper/view/6...
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
kristopher 13y ago
This reminds me of the outrage surrounding some sites that call home when one selects text or hits cmd+C to copy. Oh, what a thin line we pave between auto correction and key loggers!
stuaxo 13y ago
"Do you think that facebook tracks the stuff that people type and then erase before hitting <enter>? (or the “post” button)" Well, it's facebook; of course they do...
wikwocket 13y ago
This is interesting. On the one hand, I can almost see a case for this, kind of like Amazon saving you shopping cart and search history, as a convenience if you switch computers, and for their market research. On the other hand, most users would expect that what they enter in a random textbox and then delete is not going to be saved anywhere. These posts are equivalent to email drafts and I would hope they would be as private.
- antsar 13y ago
  These posts are equivalent to email drafts and I would hope they would be as private. On an ad-supported, web-based service? Why? If they have an algorithm that parses my drafts and uses the gathered information to make more money to pay more engineers to build better products, I have no problem with that assuming that the data is handled responsibly. For critically sensitive data that needs to be locked down, of course this is unacceptable. But so is using an ad-supported web service for critically sensitive data.
famousactress 13y ago
Tangent: This reminds me of a rumor I heard about gmail. Rumor had it, one of the ways the inbox loaded as fast as it did when you logged in is because as soon as they identified your email address (and before you typed your password) they'd kick of a job to start pulling things into memory so that your inbox would be ready to go once you logged in. If true, kind of a neat hack.
- reubenmorais 13y ago
  Similarly (and this isn't just a rumor), if you leave your mouse on top of a related video on YouTube, once you click it the load is almost instantaneous.
- dbpatterson 13y ago
  Seems possible. When you type in your address, it sends a request to https://mail.google.com/mail?gxlu=YOUREMAIL&zx=TIMESTAMP https://mail.google.com/mail?gxlu=YOUREMAIL&zx=TIMESTAMP The response is empty, at least in my browser, so unless that is only true sometimes, the only plausible explanation is for it to be causing something to occur server side.
- rmrfrmrf 13y ago
  That's pretty similar to the way that Facebook graph search works, so it wouldn't surprise me. If anything, you just open up devtools and check for an XMLHttpRequest when you tab into the password field.
joezydeco 13y ago
And we're all sure that Google's autocomplete doesn't do the same thing, right?
- seiji 13y ago
  It almost certainly does. Very few people realize they're giving Google insight into their live thought processes as they type a query, maybe refine it a few times before submitting (which gives google a lot of information about if their autocomplete suggestions are working, relevant, etc), then bouncing around search results with further refinement. Google got greedy and started tracking every click you make on search results a long time ago too. They weren't content knowing "this person got a good result and didn't need to come back for this query again" — they decided they must know what you click on, when you come back, what you click on again, .... It's all quite invasive, but nobody cares. [but who are we kidding? most people don't "refine queries" — they type "BOOBS" into google and just keep drooling on their keyboard/tablet/phone.]
  - rmrfrmrf 13y ago
    Every site owner that uses Google Analytics has this information.
lucraft 13y ago
TL;DR The researchers instrumented the Facebook client-side javascript to return statistics on users that wrote a post then deleted it, without collecting the content from the deleted posts. Also, the tone of the article seems to suggest that server-side autocomplete is scary and unethical, which I disagree with.
- JetSpiegel 13y ago
  It's the same thing as Google instant automatically recording your microphone. It is creepy.
  - antsar 13y ago
    On what devices? Source?
    - cbhl 13y ago
      Chrome on Mac/Windows/Linux/Chrome OS when you have the extension enabled. Google Search app on Android/iOS when you have the app/Google Now open. Google Glass. Source: Personally using or trying all of the above products.
dalore 13y ago
You sure it's not so you can bring up the post/status later and finish typing it in case you lost it from closing your browser etc. Or moving to a new device to finish it?
antsar 13y ago
I don't understand why this surprises people. Facebook is in the business of collecting every bit of information it can about every one if its users. I think its reasonable to assume that every click, scroll, and keypress is being captured and used for analytics.
- seiji 13y ago
  It's time for another browser fork. The new browser will disable invasive javascript methods (mouse tracking, reading every key press, over-zealous XHR partial-entry saving) on known-bad sites and on any site including javascript from known-bad actors. We shouldn't really let our interfaces to the world be run by advertising interests.
  - antsar 13y ago
    Agreed with your sentiment, but I think a plugin approach (many exist) is better than a browser fork. The fork could surely convert some users (and developers), but that just means duplication of development efforts between the fork and (for example) the Mozilla+Plugins ecosystem. Contributing to existing projects (or building a new plugin, if an open one doesn't already exist) seems like a better way to go.
    - seiji 13y ago
      Mass adoption ends up being the problem though. It doesn't hurt the evil privacy invading corporations to cut off 0.0005% of the population consisting of privacy conscious computer nerds. Maybe a partnership of some sort. "You can only use Pinterest if you have Freedom Guard installed." (which sounds like spyware anyway) We just need The Next Big Thing to guide normal people to install software to cut the legs off of current information hoarding enterprises. They only reason what they do isn't illegal is because laws haven't caught up yet, not because it's "right," "allowable," or even "morally conscionable." The internet platforms are being run by amoralists who don't care what happens as long as they end up with more power in world in the end.
      - 13y ago
geolisto 13y ago
Facebook has been doing this for a while. About a year or so ago I noticed ajax request being sent during every keystroke.
- brimanning 13y ago
  They've been doing it since you could tag people in status messages and comments just by typing their name, which has probably been around 2-4 years, maybe longer.
nichochar 13y ago
This is brilliant for data analysis. Hands down facebook.
Irishsteve 13y ago
Unpublished images also live on the server for a short period of time.
kevando 13y ago
Sound the alarm when someone finds that Google keeps a list of websites visited via incognito.
NDizzle 13y ago
If HN did the same thing there would probably be 10,000+ of my words sitting unpublished in a table somewhere. I type out stuff then I ask myself, "would anyone actually care to read this?" - usually the answer is no and I hit the back button.
alanctgardner2 13y ago
As far as I can tell the content of the update is never sent back. I just went on FB and started typing a status update. The status box expands, and loads some extra assets. But you can type and erase repeatedly and no extra HTTP requests are sent. I get the feeling their methodology was "Did the user request the status update assets? Did they subsequently post a status update?". On the one hand, FB isn't doing anything evil. On the other hand, it shows how much clever stuff you can do by looking at people's intent based on information you already have.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

46 points by forgotAgain 13y ago

Link to relevant paper. It's quite interesting: http://www.aaai.org/ocs/index.php/ICWSM/ICWSM13/paper/view/6093 http://www.aaai.org/ocs/index.php/ICWSM/ICWSM13/paper/view/6...

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

kristopher 13y ago

This reminds me of the outrage surrounding some sites that call home when one selects text or hits cmd+C to copy. Oh, what a thin line we pave between auto correction and key loggers!

stuaxo 13y ago

"Do you think that facebook tracks the stuff that people type and then erase before hitting <enter>? (or the “post” button)" Well, it's facebook; of course they do...

wikwocket 13y ago

This is interesting. On the one hand, I can almost see a case for this, kind of like Amazon saving you shopping cart and search history, as a convenience if you switch computers, and for their market research. On the other hand, most users would expect that what they enter in a random textbox and then delete is not going to be saved anywhere. These posts are equivalent to email drafts and I would hope they would be as private.

antsar 13y ago
These posts are equivalent to email drafts and I would hope they would be as private. On an ad-supported, web-based service? Why? If they have an algorithm that parses my drafts and uses the gathered information to make more money to pay more engineers to build better products, I have no problem with that assuming that the data is handled responsibly. For critically sensitive data that needs to be locked down, of course this is unacceptable. But so is using an ad-supported web service for critically sensitive data.

famousactress 13y ago

Tangent: This reminds me of a rumor I heard about gmail. Rumor had it, one of the ways the inbox loaded as fast as it did when you logged in is because as soon as they identified your email address (and before you typed your password) they'd kick of a job to start pulling things into memory so that your inbox would be ready to go once you logged in. If true, kind of a neat hack.

reubenmorais 13y ago
Similarly (and this isn't just a rumor), if you leave your mouse on top of a related video on YouTube, once you click it the load is almost instantaneous.
dbpatterson 13y ago
Seems possible. When you type in your address, it sends a request to https://mail.google.com/mail?gxlu=YOUREMAIL&zx=TIMESTAMP https://mail.google.com/mail?gxlu=YOUREMAIL&zx=TIMESTAMP The response is empty, at least in my browser, so unless that is only true sometimes, the only plausible explanation is for it to be causing something to occur server side.
rmrfrmrf 13y ago
That's pretty similar to the way that Facebook graph search works, so it wouldn't surprise me. If anything, you just open up devtools and check for an XMLHttpRequest when you tab into the password field.

joezydeco 13y ago

And we're all sure that Google's autocomplete doesn't do the same thing, right?

seiji 13y ago
It almost certainly does. Very few people realize they're giving Google insight into their live thought processes as they type a query, maybe refine it a few times before submitting (which gives google a lot of information about if their autocomplete suggestions are working, relevant, etc), then bouncing around search results with further refinement. Google got greedy and started tracking every click you make on search results a long time ago too. They weren't content knowing "this person got a good result and didn't need to come back for this query again" — they decided they must know what you click on, when you come back, what you click on again, .... It's all quite invasive, but nobody cares. [but who are we kidding? most people don't "refine queries" — they type "BOOBS" into google and just keep drooling on their keyboard/tablet/phone.]
- rmrfrmrf 13y ago
  Every site owner that uses Google Analytics has this information.

lucraft 13y ago

TL;DR The researchers instrumented the Facebook client-side javascript to return statistics on users that wrote a post then deleted it, without collecting the content from the deleted posts. Also, the tone of the article seems to suggest that server-side autocomplete is scary and unethical, which I disagree with.

JetSpiegel 13y ago
It's the same thing as Google instant automatically recording your microphone. It is creepy.
- antsar 13y ago
  On what devices? Source?
  - cbhl 13y ago
    Chrome on Mac/Windows/Linux/Chrome OS when you have the extension enabled. Google Search app on Android/iOS when you have the app/Google Now open. Google Glass. Source: Personally using or trying all of the above products.

dalore 13y ago

You sure it's not so you can bring up the post/status later and finish typing it in case you lost it from closing your browser etc. Or moving to a new device to finish it?

antsar 13y ago

I don't understand why this surprises people. Facebook is in the business of collecting every bit of information it can about every one if its users. I think its reasonable to assume that every click, scroll, and keypress is being captured and used for analytics.

seiji 13y ago
It's time for another browser fork. The new browser will disable invasive javascript methods (mouse tracking, reading every key press, over-zealous XHR partial-entry saving) on known-bad sites and on any site including javascript from known-bad actors. We shouldn't really let our interfaces to the world be run by advertising interests.
- antsar 13y ago
  Agreed with your sentiment, but I think a plugin approach (many exist) is better than a browser fork. The fork could surely convert some users (and developers), but that just means duplication of development efforts between the fork and (for example) the Mozilla+Plugins ecosystem. Contributing to existing projects (or building a new plugin, if an open one doesn't already exist) seems like a better way to go.
  - seiji 13y ago
    Mass adoption ends up being the problem though. It doesn't hurt the evil privacy invading corporations to cut off 0.0005% of the population consisting of privacy conscious computer nerds. Maybe a partnership of some sort. "You can only use Pinterest if you have Freedom Guard installed." (which sounds like spyware anyway) We just need The Next Big Thing to guide normal people to install software to cut the legs off of current information hoarding enterprises. They only reason what they do isn't illegal is because laws haven't caught up yet, not because it's "right," "allowable," or even "morally conscionable." The internet platforms are being run by amoralists who don't care what happens as long as they end up with more power in world in the end.
    - 13y ago

geolisto 13y ago

Facebook has been doing this for a while. About a year or so ago I noticed ajax request being sent during every keystroke.

brimanning 13y ago
They've been doing it since you could tag people in status messages and comments just by typing their name, which has probably been around 2-4 years, maybe longer.

nichochar 13y ago

This is brilliant for data analysis. Hands down facebook.

Irishsteve 13y ago

Unpublished images also live on the server for a short period of time.

kevando 13y ago

Sound the alarm when someone finds that Google keeps a list of websites visited via incognito.

NDizzle 13y ago

If HN did the same thing there would probably be 10,000+ of my words sitting unpublished in a table somewhere. I type out stuff then I ask myself, "would anyone actually care to read this?" - usually the answer is no and I hit the back button.

alanctgardner2 13y ago

As far as I can tell the content of the update is never sent back. I just went on FB and started typing a status update. The status box expands, and loads some extra assets. But you can type and erase repeatedly and no extra HTTP requests are sent. I get the feeling their methodology was "Did the user request the status update assets? Did they subsequently post a status update?". On the one hand, FB isn't doing anything evil. On the other hand, it shows how much clever stuff you can do by looking at people's intent based on information you already have.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]