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I would rather put this in the term of With or Without Integrity. I am an American Citizen and I am proud to be one. Can we stop with this good vs bad compar

I would rather put this in the term of With or Without Integrity. I am an American Citizen and I am proud to be one. Can we stop with this good vs bad comparison. See this paper for reference to the integrity I'm talking about: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1511274 http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1511274 What NSA doing is OUT OF integrity with their mission statements and values of this country. Snowden however seemed to acted with integrity. More research is needed. Here is NSA's dedication to our nation: NSA/CSS employees are Americans first, last, and always. We treasure the U.S. Constitution and the rights it secures for all the people. Each employee takes a solemn oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Where shall we go from here, other than calling something good vs bad?

fragsworth 13y ago
> What NSA doing is OUT OF integrity with their mission statements and values of this country. How can you trust that there are no nefarious forces at work here on the NSA's part, when 1) there are many clear and obvious incentives for them to exist, and 2) everything about the NSA and what it does is kept a secret?
- h2database 13y ago
  I don't trust them now days. Many man and woman of NSA truly think they are doing good for their country. I also don't think by calling each other names like nefarious is going to help the situation. It that time they acted the way the world occurred (showed up ) must seemed appropriated for that action. I don not think they they are sitting around the table and talk about how to be evil. I think we should grant amnesty much like what they did in South Africa for people who are working for US government and know they are doing something not in alignment with their and the countryøs values.
  - lukifer 13y ago
    Systems and institutions can be evil even if every single human involved in them are upstanding citizens of good conscience. I think the general consensus of critics is that most NSA employees are decent human beings who (misguidedly) believe in their mission. http://omniorthogonal.blogspot.com/2013/02/hostile-ai-youre-soaking-in-it.html http://omniorthogonal.blogspot.com/2013/02/hostile-ai-youre-...
    - blahbl4hblahtoo 13y ago
      Misguided in thinking that a large nation state needs a signals intelligence capability? They aren't the SS. The NSA has overreached because after 9/11 congress demanded that they start overreaching. The AUMF was sweeping in its breadth. They will have to be reigned in...but the idea that what they are doing is "evil"... if we aren't going to hold people accountable for torture it doesn't make sense to call privacy invasion "evil".
h2database 13y ago
sorry someone stole my laptop, post on this computer is a pain. One last thing. DO NOT walk away with the notion that With Integrity = Good With Out Integrity = Bad Consider that Integrity is just there or not, and when it is there it provide a foundation for workability that's all. "It ain't no big deal." In this case, one organization is just out of it. :-) It is like a statement "the moon is round". Either good or bad.

fragsworth 13y ago

> What NSA doing is OUT OF integrity with their mission statements and values of this country. How can you trust that there are no nefarious forces at work here on the NSA's part, when 1) there are many clear and obvious incentives for them to exist, and 2) everything about the NSA and what it does is kept a secret?

h2database 13y ago
I don't trust them now days. Many man and woman of NSA truly think they are doing good for their country. I also don't think by calling each other names like nefarious is going to help the situation. It that time they acted the way the world occurred (showed up ) must seemed appropriated for that action. I don not think they they are sitting around the table and talk about how to be evil. I think we should grant amnesty much like what they did in South Africa for people who are working for US government and know they are doing something not in alignment with their and the countryøs values.
- lukifer 13y ago
  Systems and institutions can be evil even if every single human involved in them are upstanding citizens of good conscience. I think the general consensus of critics is that most NSA employees are decent human beings who (misguidedly) believe in their mission. http://omniorthogonal.blogspot.com/2013/02/hostile-ai-youre-soaking-in-it.html http://omniorthogonal.blogspot.com/2013/02/hostile-ai-youre-...
  - blahbl4hblahtoo 13y ago
    Misguided in thinking that a large nation state needs a signals intelligence capability? They aren't the SS. The NSA has overreached because after 9/11 congress demanded that they start overreaching. The AUMF was sweeping in its breadth. They will have to be reigned in...but the idea that what they are doing is "evil"... if we aren't going to hold people accountable for torture it doesn't make sense to call privacy invasion "evil".

h2database 13y ago

sorry someone stole my laptop, post on this computer is a pain. One last thing. DO NOT walk away with the notion that With Integrity = Good With Out Integrity = Bad Consider that Integrity is just there or not, and when it is there it provide a foundation for workability that's all. "It ain't no big deal." In this case, one organization is just out of it. :-) It is like a statement "the moon is round". Either good or bad.