4 ms·

I think - and this is only based on my own experiences, so please do correct me - is that a lot of the problems discussed here are exacerbated by the effective

by objclxt 13y ago

I think - and this is only based on my own experiences, so please do correct me - is that a lot of the problems discussed here are exacerbated by the effective geographical segregation of tech workers with families and those without. One of the complaints here is that in the Mission tech workers aren't engaging with the local community - schools, playgrounds, and the like. But this isn't a general problem with tech, because if you walk 10 minutes to Noe Valley you'll find many tech workers actively involved in their communities because they have families that live there. This is compounded by the fact that many people in tech who decide to start a family will often move out to the valley to take advantage of better schools, and more appropriate housing.

timr 13y ago
"One of the complaints here is that in the Mission tech workers aren't engaging with the local community - schools, playgrounds, and the like. But this isn't a general problem with tech, because if you walk 10 minutes to Noe Valley you'll find many tech workers actively involved in their communities because they have families that live there." I'm not really sure about that. SF hasn't exactly been a family-friendly place for the time that I've lived here, and I wouldn't describe the giant packs of 20-something, nerdy men who have come with this latest gold rush as engaged members of their community. But Noe is definitely a different neighborhood than SOMA, so you probably see more civic engagement there than elsewhere in the city. However, I can say with 100% confidence that the city has become less interesting and more homogenous since 2008 -- much more white, 20-something and hipstnerd. Many of the things that I found culturally interesting in San Francisco have been pushed out by the skyrocketing costs of living here. Artisan drop coffee and bougie grilled cheese shops aside, Oakland seems like a far more interesting place than San Francisco these days -- nearly all of the art, music and counter-culture that made SF dynamic has moved to the east bay, replaced by a shallow, consumeristic version of the same.
- wozniacki 13y ago
  However, I can say with 100% confidence that the city has become less interesting and more homogenous since 2008. Many of the things that I found culturally interesting in San Francisco have been pushed out by the skyrocketing costs of living here. Could you perhaps list a few of these "culturally interesting" things that existed in the pre-2008 period? Because I am left puzzled as to what was so vibrant back then. I have lived on and off in the Bay Are since 2001 and in SF since 2005 (in Potrero ,Lower Nob not Tender-Nob. Hell no! Not Tender-Nob. If you think it is a cesspool now, you should have seen it back then). Whenever I read "culturally interesting", alarm bells go off because it is usually a couched way of culture peddlers saying, culturally interesting to us - the few dozen scenesters who are so firmly ensconced in this made-up brand of stylized misfitdom. These non-tech scene people whose coolness is threatened by the addition of new recruits (and heaven forbid they be upwardly mobile technology workers) that they actively shun all outsiders, who are trying to be "more involved in city life" and "start participating in city life." When they say that we should be "more involved in city life", what they really mean is that you should fork over more of your hard earned dollars to preserve the culturally attractive blight and color of the city, so that they could continue to make merry, uninterrupted while we sit on the outside, looking in, but never really welcomed or accepted.
  - holyfh 13y ago
    > (in Potrero ,Lower Nob not Tender-Nob. Hell no! Not Tender-Nob. If you think it is a cesspool now, you should have seen it back then). >When they say that we should be "more involved in city life", what they really mean is that you should fork over more of your hard earned dollars to preserve the culturally attractive blight and color of the city, so that they could continue to make merry, uninterrupted while we sit on the outside, looking in, but never really welcomed or accepted. I find it hard to believe such opinion-havers are faced with a hard time fitting in with the people they interact with whose prime objective isn't 'networking to make more money.'
gohrt 13y ago
That's true. Yet it's an complex way of saying "the complaint is that rich people don't support poor people." In Noe Valley, the rich people have moved away from the poor people, "out of sight, out of mind", but in the Mission the rich and poor are still neighbors. Noe Valley isn't a solution to the problem, it's just a NIMBY way of papering over the problem.
deleted 13y ago
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by objclxt 13y ago

timr 13y ago

"One of the complaints here is that in the Mission tech workers aren't engaging with the local community - schools, playgrounds, and the like. But this isn't a general problem with tech, because if you walk 10 minutes to Noe Valley you'll find many tech workers actively involved in their communities because they have families that live there." I'm not really sure about that. SF hasn't exactly been a family-friendly place for the time that I've lived here, and I wouldn't describe the giant packs of 20-something, nerdy men who have come with this latest gold rush as engaged members of their community. But Noe is definitely a different neighborhood than SOMA, so you probably see more civic engagement there than elsewhere in the city. However, I can say with 100% confidence that the city has become less interesting and more homogenous since 2008 -- much more white, 20-something and hipstnerd. Many of the things that I found culturally interesting in San Francisco have been pushed out by the skyrocketing costs of living here. Artisan drop coffee and bougie grilled cheese shops aside, Oakland seems like a far more interesting place than San Francisco these days -- nearly all of the art, music and counter-culture that made SF dynamic has moved to the east bay, replaced by a shallow, consumeristic version of the same.

wozniacki 13y ago
However, I can say with 100% confidence that the city has become less interesting and more homogenous since 2008. Many of the things that I found culturally interesting in San Francisco have been pushed out by the skyrocketing costs of living here. Could you perhaps list a few of these "culturally interesting" things that existed in the pre-2008 period? Because I am left puzzled as to what was so vibrant back then. I have lived on and off in the Bay Are since 2001 and in SF since 2005 (in Potrero ,Lower Nob not Tender-Nob. Hell no! Not Tender-Nob. If you think it is a cesspool now, you should have seen it back then). Whenever I read "culturally interesting", alarm bells go off because it is usually a couched way of culture peddlers saying, culturally interesting to us - the few dozen scenesters who are so firmly ensconced in this made-up brand of stylized misfitdom. These non-tech scene people whose coolness is threatened by the addition of new recruits (and heaven forbid they be upwardly mobile technology workers) that they actively shun all outsiders, who are trying to be "more involved in city life" and "start participating in city life." When they say that we should be "more involved in city life", what they really mean is that you should fork over more of your hard earned dollars to preserve the culturally attractive blight and color of the city, so that they could continue to make merry, uninterrupted while we sit on the outside, looking in, but never really welcomed or accepted.
- holyfh 13y ago
  > (in Potrero ,Lower Nob not Tender-Nob. Hell no! Not Tender-Nob. If you think it is a cesspool now, you should have seen it back then). >When they say that we should be "more involved in city life", what they really mean is that you should fork over more of your hard earned dollars to preserve the culturally attractive blight and color of the city, so that they could continue to make merry, uninterrupted while we sit on the outside, looking in, but never really welcomed or accepted. I find it hard to believe such opinion-havers are faced with a hard time fitting in with the people they interact with whose prime objective isn't 'networking to make more money.'

gohrt 13y ago

That's true. Yet it's an complex way of saying "the complaint is that rich people don't support poor people." In Noe Valley, the rich people have moved away from the poor people, "out of sight, out of mind", but in the Mission the rich and poor are still neighbors. Noe Valley isn't a solution to the problem, it's just a NIMBY way of papering over the problem.

deleted 13y ago

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