4 ms·

People have been hating yuppies since as long as the concept has existed. This is nothing new at all; it is standard distrust, fear, or dislike of people who a

by Crito 13y ago

People have been hating yuppies since as long as the concept has existed. This is nothing new at all; it is standard distrust, fear, or dislike of people who are perceived as different. There exists a certain segment of the population that will always consider newcomers (less charitably called 'outsiders') as an intrinsically bad thing. These people should be ignored; they cannot be satisfied by doing anything but giving in to them. (I don't live in SF, but I hear the same complaints about "techies" in my city, particularly in my neighborhood.)

nilkn 13y ago
I think it has more to do with being displaced and less with disliking people with Macbooks at coffee houses. This is gentrification, but it's the middle class being pushed out this time, not the lower class. Nobody wants to leave their favorite spot because they can no longer afford the rent. You're right, though, that it's not new at all. This happens in most major urban cities.
- Crito 13y ago
  The trick is that the newcomers are always blamed for rising housing costs, nobody considers that their own community may be to blame for the housing shortage. It is unreasonable to expect your community to never grow in population or wealth. Also, I think you are underplaying the degree to which "disliking people with Macbooks at coffee houses" plays into it. There is a lot of wordage in that article dedicated to describing things other than rising rent that is bothering the "natives". One example: ""Your whole social world is tech," Garcia, 37, said as he finished a bagel sandwich at the Creamery, a cafe at Fourth and Townsend that's a hotbed of tech deal making. "The reality is that there are real people in San Francisco, but they're usually in neighborhoods like the Richmond or Sunset," he continued. "The wall between them and us, so to speak - not to get too postcolonial about it here - is pretty high."" Here the "native" has decided that "tech people" are somehow less "real" because they are unlike him. People like Garcia might try to dress up their issue with "tech people" as merely a matter of rent and economics, but what it really boils down to is bigotry.
  - timr 13y ago
    Yes, exactly. A lot of the folks in this scene are just unlikable people. I'm "part of the problem", and even I don't like a lot of the startup people who I encounter on a daily basis in SOMA or the Mission. If I have to put it into words, there's been a tangible shift from "let's do something interesting together with this cool new thing" to "how can I get rich with this thing?", and that transition makes everyone else feel like a tool for your personal advancement.
    - michaelochurch 13y ago
      If I have to put it into words, there's been a tangible shift from "let's do something interesting together with this cool new thing" to "how can I get rich with this thing?", and that transition makes everyone else feel like a tool for your personal advancement. Yes, exactly. You're hitting it right on the head in this thread.
    - Crito 13y ago
      Every group has their fair share of unlikeable individual. It is the act of a bigot to confuse those unlikeable individuals as representatives of their group.
      - timr 13y ago
        Like it or not, everyone is a representative for whatever scene they're in. We're all ambassadors, and in this case, we're ambassadors for an industry that is easy to characterize as heartless and imperious.
        Crito 13y ago
        Are you comfortable expanding that concept to concepts other than "profession"?
  - dnr 13y ago
    You read that backwards: Garcia is a tech person, and is being self-deprecating when he refers to them as less real people. Whether it's ironic self-deprecation, or sincere sadness and disappointment at the situation, I can't tell.
objclxt 13y ago
This is true, and many of the problems I see in SF had like-for-like counterparts when I was living in London (replace 'tech' with 'finance', etc). That said, I think SF has some unique circumstances that make gentrification challenging. These cause genuine problems that aren't related to simple fear of change. A few of those circumstances: * SF has a very poor public transport system that severely limits where people can choose to live in relation to their workplace * SF has problems with homelessness and poverty that are more visible and proportionally higher than its peers (SF has one of the highest rates of homeless people who actively refuse shelter) * Tech workers often flee the city to have families, meaning they aren't as engaged with the community as others (this exodus also has detrimental effects on the school system in SF)
- redwood 13y ago
  It's sad though, to think that tech could ever be considered the new finance. We're supposed to the LSD experimenting, sandal wearing, authority deriding rebels. That's why we're rooted in San Francisco to begin with. We're threatening our own existence.
  - eshvk 13y ago
    > We're supposed to the LSD experimenting, sandal wearing, authority deriding rebels. > We're threatening our own existence. Erm...no. You are choosing to define tech as either " LSD experimenting, sandal wearing, authority deriding rebels." or in another post as "autistic male industry.". This is a definition that works for you. I choose not to be associated with any of these definitions. I have no interest in either craft beer or comicon or any of those typical American nerd past times. Hell, I studied high school in a sub culture where girls were automatically supposed to be good at Math or CS. My point is that it ultimately is just a job. Go do the job. There will be people who will stereotype you and make you part of some club whether you choose to be part of that club or not. Ignore them, help the world if you choose to.
    - redwood 13y ago
      I couldn't agree with you more. We need to step up and change the averages of this industry. There will be many benefits if we do, for our society, for our industry, and for us too. In the meantime, you and I will be in the minority. I was speaking a bit tongue in cheek about the lsd and sandals, but nevertheless believe we need to work hard to encourage a quilt of diversity: in style and scenes, approaches to the world and epistemology of learning, academic pursuit, politics, local business etc. I aimed to identify the low hanging fruit, where we're most of out to lunch. And the lack of women in our midst is certainly #1 on the list, imo.

by Crito 13y ago

nilkn 13y ago

I think it has more to do with being displaced and less with disliking people with Macbooks at coffee houses. This is gentrification, but it's the middle class being pushed out this time, not the lower class. Nobody wants to leave their favorite spot because they can no longer afford the rent. You're right, though, that it's not new at all. This happens in most major urban cities.

Crito 13y ago
The trick is that the newcomers are always blamed for rising housing costs, nobody considers that their own community may be to blame for the housing shortage. It is unreasonable to expect your community to never grow in population or wealth. Also, I think you are underplaying the degree to which "disliking people with Macbooks at coffee houses" plays into it. There is a lot of wordage in that article dedicated to describing things other than rising rent that is bothering the "natives". One example: ""Your whole social world is tech," Garcia, 37, said as he finished a bagel sandwich at the Creamery, a cafe at Fourth and Townsend that's a hotbed of tech deal making. "The reality is that there are real people in San Francisco, but they're usually in neighborhoods like the Richmond or Sunset," he continued. "The wall between them and us, so to speak - not to get too postcolonial about it here - is pretty high."" Here the "native" has decided that "tech people" are somehow less "real" because they are unlike him. People like Garcia might try to dress up their issue with "tech people" as merely a matter of rent and economics, but what it really boils down to is bigotry.
- timr 13y ago
  Yes, exactly. A lot of the folks in this scene are just unlikable people. I'm "part of the problem", and even I don't like a lot of the startup people who I encounter on a daily basis in SOMA or the Mission. If I have to put it into words, there's been a tangible shift from "let's do something interesting together with this cool new thing" to "how can I get rich with this thing?", and that transition makes everyone else feel like a tool for your personal advancement.
  - michaelochurch 13y ago
    If I have to put it into words, there's been a tangible shift from "let's do something interesting together with this cool new thing" to "how can I get rich with this thing?", and that transition makes everyone else feel like a tool for your personal advancement. Yes, exactly. You're hitting it right on the head in this thread.
  - Crito 13y ago
    Every group has their fair share of unlikeable individual. It is the act of a bigot to confuse those unlikeable individuals as representatives of their group.
    - timr 13y ago
      Like it or not, everyone is a representative for whatever scene they're in. We're all ambassadors, and in this case, we're ambassadors for an industry that is easy to characterize as heartless and imperious.
      - Crito 13y ago
        Are you comfortable expanding that concept to concepts other than "profession"?
- dnr 13y ago
  You read that backwards: Garcia is a tech person, and is being self-deprecating when he refers to them as less real people. Whether it's ironic self-deprecation, or sincere sadness and disappointment at the situation, I can't tell.

objclxt 13y ago

This is true, and many of the problems I see in SF had like-for-like counterparts when I was living in London (replace 'tech' with 'finance', etc). That said, I think SF has some unique circumstances that make gentrification challenging. These cause genuine problems that aren't related to simple fear of change. A few of those circumstances: * SF has a very poor public transport system that severely limits where people can choose to live in relation to their workplace * SF has problems with homelessness and poverty that are more visible and proportionally higher than its peers (SF has one of the highest rates of homeless people who actively refuse shelter) * Tech workers often flee the city to have families, meaning they aren't as engaged with the community as others (this exodus also has detrimental effects on the school system in SF)

redwood 13y ago
It's sad though, to think that tech could ever be considered the new finance. We're supposed to the LSD experimenting, sandal wearing, authority deriding rebels. That's why we're rooted in San Francisco to begin with. We're threatening our own existence.
- eshvk 13y ago
  > We're supposed to the LSD experimenting, sandal wearing, authority deriding rebels. > We're threatening our own existence. Erm...no. You are choosing to define tech as either " LSD experimenting, sandal wearing, authority deriding rebels." or in another post as "autistic male industry.". This is a definition that works for you. I choose not to be associated with any of these definitions. I have no interest in either craft beer or comicon or any of those typical American nerd past times. Hell, I studied high school in a sub culture where girls were automatically supposed to be good at Math or CS. My point is that it ultimately is just a job. Go do the job. There will be people who will stereotype you and make you part of some club whether you choose to be part of that club or not. Ignore them, help the world if you choose to.
  - redwood 13y ago
    I couldn't agree with you more. We need to step up and change the averages of this industry. There will be many benefits if we do, for our society, for our industry, and for us too. In the meantime, you and I will be in the minority. I was speaking a bit tongue in cheek about the lsd and sandals, but nevertheless believe we need to work hard to encourage a quilt of diversity: in style and scenes, approaches to the world and epistemology of learning, academic pursuit, politics, local business etc. I aimed to identify the low hanging fruit, where we're most of out to lunch. And the lack of women in our midst is certainly #1 on the list, imo.