5 ms·

I don't know. I just don't know. I earned a perfect score on the SAT and was voted "Class Genius" in the yearbook, but barely graduated from high school. I w

I don't know. I just don't know. I earned a perfect score on the SAT and was voted "Class Genius" in the yearbook, but barely graduated from high school. I was dismissed from university. I went to work for a machine learning company, where we (self included!) did some really neat stuff, including some heroic pre-sales-meeting coding that saved the day in a minor way. But I was fired six months in for low productivity and low engagement. Was it brain chemistry? ADD? Millenial entitlement? The Bipolar Lisp personality? Depression? SAD? A once-seen-impossible-to-unsee glimpse of the Gervais Principle? (http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/ http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-o...) Who knows. What I do know is that - a) I may have something, but at least I am lucid. This is an understandable HN comment. I write many of them, and they seem to get ok ratings. - b) I have spent, and could spend, a lot of time trying to nail down exactly what's up with me. I have very little to show for it. So I'm trying to just capitalize on the "lucid" part. I'm building stuff. I realize I'm the proverbial crank working alone, but I'm trying very hard to avoid the common pitfalls---setting hard deadlines, getting customer feedback, getting appropriate exercise and social interaction, etc. And it's working. Things are happening. Milestones are being reached. It's the best I can do.

modfodder 13y ago
I have a similar history to yours (except GenX not millenial). I've built a decent career for myself, but have always struggled with SAD and bipolar symptoms. When I feel good I'm sure it's something I can control, but as soon as it sneaks up, my life goes into self-destruction mode. I always feel bad about complaining about the effect this has on my life as my income is typically in the top 10% in the U.S., but still feel most of my potential gets lost in the struggle.
- benched 13y ago
  I could have written this comment about myself verbatim. The way I see it, there is so much variation in brains and personalities. You can find in the distribution people who exhibit what look like discipline and constancy. There's also everyone else.
- Cthulhu_ 13y ago
  I'm no psychologist, but part of what I'm reading here is guilt and pressure about your 'potential'. Trying to pursue that potential and whatnot will probably only make your problems worse or equal. It's not a bad thing to aim a bit lower and just find balance in things.
  - modfodder 13y ago
    I hear what your saying, and I've done some of that thru the years. But it goes beyond just lowering expectations, I'm already pretty chill about whatever life brings my way. It has more to do with bouts of depression that have regularly slowed and occasionally sidelined my ambitions as well as an additional stressor on family and relationships.
- dan00 13y ago
  Perhaps you wouldn't be as good without these "downtimes". I think a lot of the true potential thinking is just misguided.
maratd 13y ago
> Was it brain chemistry? ADD? Millenial entitlement? The Bipolar Lisp personality? Depression? SAD? A once-seen-impossible-to-unsee glimpse of the Gervais Principle? Oh please, enough with the drama. I've led the same life. So has everyone else here. I had the foresight to realize my ailment early on. I'm lazy and bored easily, which is really the same thing. > But I was fired six months in for low productivity and low engagement. So people told you were lazy and rather than accept that at face value, you decided you have some sort of a medical condition? Look, take my advice. Work for yourself and take on short-term projects. Nothing that lasts more than a month or two. That way, by the time you get bored with it, you're on to something entirely different. > I realize I'm the proverbial crank working alone, but I'm trying very hard to avoid the common pitfalls---setting hard deadlines, getting customer feedback, getting appropriate exercise and social interaction, etc. And it's working. Things are happening. Milestones are being reached. Eh? I spoke too soon. Looks like you're already on the right path.
- duaneb 13y ago
  Here's a brilliant idea—help a person by framing their issues as personal and moral failures. That's sure to be a positive catalyst for change. EDIT: For some reason I can't respond to the comment below. My point was, it's easy to frame problems with terms like "weak", "irresponsible", and "lazy". It's hard to actually attempt to communicate, identify a problem in a way that you can talk about the same thing, and find a solution.
  - maratd 13y ago
    > Here's a brilliant idea—help a person by framing their issues as personal and moral failures. That's sure to be a positive catalyst for change. You're being sarcastic, but it actually IS. We live in a culture where everything is a disorder. How convenient, that all of your failures can be blamed on something you don't control. Here's an idea. Everything you don't take responsibility for. Everything you don't see as your own failing ... you have no control over and are destined to suffer under its yoke for the rest of your life. And no drug or doctor will fix it for you.
tlarkworthy 13y ago
wow that gervais principle was a good read! you could previously have just been immature. Now you are doing the self-discovery and learning about yourself properly, and seeing the benefits of knowing your own limitations and strengths. Being a class genius at high school makes you think everything will be easy, when infact it's not. Now you know its not easy (left uni), so you now put in the hours. Good luck on your path to success, you still have the smart brain so it will find its role eventually.
neurotech1 13y ago
What I find frustrating is discussing with doctors that not all focusing difficulties are caused by depression. I do experience periods of (unipolar) depression. One thing that I notice among "smart" people is that its easy to burn-out. My only real advice is aim to do things that your passionate about. Two examples that come to mind is Elon Musk[1][2], who clearly enjoys building rockets and electric cards, and Mitch Altman[3] who enjoys making cool things. Elon Musk hasn't commented publicly on ADHD specifically. Mitch is well known for his public discussions on depression. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk [2] http://www.forbes.com/sites/drewhansen/2012/05/24/elon-musk-and-how-divorce-prepares-kids-to-be-entrepreneurs/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/drewhansen/2012/05/24/elon-musk-... [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitch_Altman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitch_Altman
- wikiburner 13y ago
  > Elon Musk hasn't commented publicly on ADHD specifically. Is there speculation that he has ADHD?
Shinkei 13y ago
This is an honest post, thanks for sharing. I am confused by something though. I have only (to my knowledge) known one person that got a perfect score on the SAT. The reason is that it requires both reasoning as well as 'stamp collecting'--(i.e. book knowledge). If you didn't bother to learn all the obscure vocabulary words used on the SAT that most high schoolers don't know--(extol, capricious, etc.)--then you must've been an exceptional reader. Where did you get this other knowledge? Did you just read a lot? If you 'barely graduated' high school and got dismissed with university, then you must've simply not done the work. I've known plenty of people that were smart, but lazy. If you are gifted at a young age, it's easy to get relaxed... become lazy and satsified with the easy victories. The only way you can break this cycle is to endeavor to place a hurdle in front of yourself, one that you can't easily jump.
- prutschman 13y ago
  I also got 1600. I read a lot. In high school (many years ago) I made a game of starting my math homework when the teacher started collecting it, and usually finished in time. I got very used to skimming by. I did graduate from university, but it was by the skin of my teeth. Other than that, OP's experience was very similar to my own. Depression played a huge role in all of this. (I'm doing fairly well now, but it was a bumpy road.)
  - dougk16 13y ago
    Did the same thing with homework in one math class, but my teacher would start at random positions in the classroom...overall, didn't work out to a very high grade for me :)
  - 1457389 13y ago
    Is there a name for people who go through this kind of life trajectory? I want to know if there is some kind of consensus on how to snap out of it.
    - oneshotaccount 13y ago
      "Underachievers"? My college GPA ended up at 3.1. During the last two years, I got into a pattern of signing up for a full-time courseload and then completely ignoring (and failing) one of the classes (if this happens to you, I can only advise formally shifting to part-time status). I can provide some observations on particular things that got me through some classes: One class I failed because I showed up on the first day, determined accurately that the subject material was quite easy, and stopped going for a while. I showed up again in the fourth week of class, and learned that I had already managed a failing grade for myself -- one component of the course grade was a series of four pop quizzes, of which two had already happened, and to pass the course overall it was necessary to pass each component. Since that class was required for a CS degree, I had to retake it. Having failed it on a technicality pissed me off, so I showed up regularly and was quite vocal in class, and the professor (not the same one) became very familiar with me. When late in the term I finally flaked on a homework assignment, I felt enough of a connection to him that I spoke to him after class, saying I had been a little busier than usual and hadn't done the assignment (I made no offer to get it in late). He whacked me on the arm with the papers he was holding and said "do you need more time? Take another day!", at which point, obviously, I had to complete the assignment. I never missed another one. So one lesson is: you will do work for a personal connection that your work ethic would not have motivated you to do. Wounded pride helps too. I had a class in which I was one of four students. No real problems there either; it would have been too embarrassing. Lesson: close oversight can keep you working. In one class, I was already established in a flaking pattern when a girl in the class came to me and asked to be my partner (our university encouraged pair programming). From that point on, I had nothing better to do with my time than work on the class assignments. Impressing a professor didn't register with me, but impressing a girl did. This one is kind of a special case of the first "lesson", so I'll say it helps if the reason you're working is something you find compelling. This last point is something I have no personal experience with, but I imagine having friends who thought working on something potentially productive was a fun way to spend time would help me a lot. "Hey, let's take a udacity course together!" "Hey, let's learn rails and set up a website!" That kind of thing. Peer group matters too. :/
ThrowAway9392 13y ago
I can strongly identify with your story. However, I have been able to "cure" my ADHD, please read my comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6908027 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6908027 and let me know what you think.
atmosx 13y ago
I envy you for having the feeling that you do the best you can do. I'd like to make it a constant, but I can't. I'm so happy for myself when it happens and strangely, I never care about the result - it's liberating.

modfodder 13y ago

I have a similar history to yours (except GenX not millenial). I've built a decent career for myself, but have always struggled with SAD and bipolar symptoms. When I feel good I'm sure it's something I can control, but as soon as it sneaks up, my life goes into self-destruction mode. I always feel bad about complaining about the effect this has on my life as my income is typically in the top 10% in the U.S., but still feel most of my potential gets lost in the struggle.

benched 13y ago
I could have written this comment about myself verbatim. The way I see it, there is so much variation in brains and personalities. You can find in the distribution people who exhibit what look like discipline and constancy. There's also everyone else.
Cthulhu_ 13y ago
I'm no psychologist, but part of what I'm reading here is guilt and pressure about your 'potential'. Trying to pursue that potential and whatnot will probably only make your problems worse or equal. It's not a bad thing to aim a bit lower and just find balance in things.
- modfodder 13y ago
  I hear what your saying, and I've done some of that thru the years. But it goes beyond just lowering expectations, I'm already pretty chill about whatever life brings my way. It has more to do with bouts of depression that have regularly slowed and occasionally sidelined my ambitions as well as an additional stressor on family and relationships.
dan00 13y ago
Perhaps you wouldn't be as good without these "downtimes". I think a lot of the true potential thinking is just misguided.

maratd 13y ago

> Was it brain chemistry? ADD? Millenial entitlement? The Bipolar Lisp personality? Depression? SAD? A once-seen-impossible-to-unsee glimpse of the Gervais Principle? Oh please, enough with the drama. I've led the same life. So has everyone else here. I had the foresight to realize my ailment early on. I'm lazy and bored easily, which is really the same thing. > But I was fired six months in for low productivity and low engagement. So people told you were lazy and rather than accept that at face value, you decided you have some sort of a medical condition? Look, take my advice. Work for yourself and take on short-term projects. Nothing that lasts more than a month or two. That way, by the time you get bored with it, you're on to something entirely different. > I realize I'm the proverbial crank working alone, but I'm trying very hard to avoid the common pitfalls---setting hard deadlines, getting customer feedback, getting appropriate exercise and social interaction, etc. And it's working. Things are happening. Milestones are being reached. Eh? I spoke too soon. Looks like you're already on the right path.

duaneb 13y ago
Here's a brilliant idea—help a person by framing their issues as personal and moral failures. That's sure to be a positive catalyst for change. EDIT: For some reason I can't respond to the comment below. My point was, it's easy to frame problems with terms like "weak", "irresponsible", and "lazy". It's hard to actually attempt to communicate, identify a problem in a way that you can talk about the same thing, and find a solution.
- maratd 13y ago
  > Here's a brilliant idea—help a person by framing their issues as personal and moral failures. That's sure to be a positive catalyst for change. You're being sarcastic, but it actually IS. We live in a culture where everything is a disorder. How convenient, that all of your failures can be blamed on something you don't control. Here's an idea. Everything you don't take responsibility for. Everything you don't see as your own failing ... you have no control over and are destined to suffer under its yoke for the rest of your life. And no drug or doctor will fix it for you.

tlarkworthy 13y ago

wow that gervais principle was a good read! you could previously have just been immature. Now you are doing the self-discovery and learning about yourself properly, and seeing the benefits of knowing your own limitations and strengths. Being a class genius at high school makes you think everything will be easy, when infact it's not. Now you know its not easy (left uni), so you now put in the hours. Good luck on your path to success, you still have the smart brain so it will find its role eventually.

neurotech1 13y ago

What I find frustrating is discussing with doctors that not all focusing difficulties are caused by depression. I do experience periods of (unipolar) depression. One thing that I notice among "smart" people is that its easy to burn-out. My only real advice is aim to do things that your passionate about. Two examples that come to mind is Elon Musk[1][2], who clearly enjoys building rockets and electric cards, and Mitch Altman[3] who enjoys making cool things. Elon Musk hasn't commented publicly on ADHD specifically. Mitch is well known for his public discussions on depression. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk [2] http://www.forbes.com/sites/drewhansen/2012/05/24/elon-musk-and-how-divorce-prepares-kids-to-be-entrepreneurs/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/drewhansen/2012/05/24/elon-musk-... [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitch_Altman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitch_Altman

wikiburner 13y ago
> Elon Musk hasn't commented publicly on ADHD specifically. Is there speculation that he has ADHD?

Shinkei 13y ago

This is an honest post, thanks for sharing. I am confused by something though. I have only (to my knowledge) known one person that got a perfect score on the SAT. The reason is that it requires both reasoning as well as 'stamp collecting'--(i.e. book knowledge). If you didn't bother to learn all the obscure vocabulary words used on the SAT that most high schoolers don't know--(extol, capricious, etc.)--then you must've been an exceptional reader. Where did you get this other knowledge? Did you just read a lot? If you 'barely graduated' high school and got dismissed with university, then you must've simply not done the work. I've known plenty of people that were smart, but lazy. If you are gifted at a young age, it's easy to get relaxed... become lazy and satsified with the easy victories. The only way you can break this cycle is to endeavor to place a hurdle in front of yourself, one that you can't easily jump.

prutschman 13y ago
I also got 1600. I read a lot. In high school (many years ago) I made a game of starting my math homework when the teacher started collecting it, and usually finished in time. I got very used to skimming by. I did graduate from university, but it was by the skin of my teeth. Other than that, OP's experience was very similar to my own. Depression played a huge role in all of this. (I'm doing fairly well now, but it was a bumpy road.)
- dougk16 13y ago
  Did the same thing with homework in one math class, but my teacher would start at random positions in the classroom...overall, didn't work out to a very high grade for me :)
- 1457389 13y ago
  Is there a name for people who go through this kind of life trajectory? I want to know if there is some kind of consensus on how to snap out of it.
  - oneshotaccount 13y ago
    "Underachievers"? My college GPA ended up at 3.1. During the last two years, I got into a pattern of signing up for a full-time courseload and then completely ignoring (and failing) one of the classes (if this happens to you, I can only advise formally shifting to part-time status). I can provide some observations on particular things that got me through some classes: One class I failed because I showed up on the first day, determined accurately that the subject material was quite easy, and stopped going for a while. I showed up again in the fourth week of class, and learned that I had already managed a failing grade for myself -- one component of the course grade was a series of four pop quizzes, of which two had already happened, and to pass the course overall it was necessary to pass each component. Since that class was required for a CS degree, I had to retake it. Having failed it on a technicality pissed me off, so I showed up regularly and was quite vocal in class, and the professor (not the same one) became very familiar with me. When late in the term I finally flaked on a homework assignment, I felt enough of a connection to him that I spoke to him after class, saying I had been a little busier than usual and hadn't done the assignment (I made no offer to get it in late). He whacked me on the arm with the papers he was holding and said "do you need more time? Take another day!", at which point, obviously, I had to complete the assignment. I never missed another one. So one lesson is: you will do work for a personal connection that your work ethic would not have motivated you to do. Wounded pride helps too. I had a class in which I was one of four students. No real problems there either; it would have been too embarrassing. Lesson: close oversight can keep you working. In one class, I was already established in a flaking pattern when a girl in the class came to me and asked to be my partner (our university encouraged pair programming). From that point on, I had nothing better to do with my time than work on the class assignments. Impressing a professor didn't register with me, but impressing a girl did. This one is kind of a special case of the first "lesson", so I'll say it helps if the reason you're working is something you find compelling. This last point is something I have no personal experience with, but I imagine having friends who thought working on something potentially productive was a fun way to spend time would help me a lot. "Hey, let's take a udacity course together!" "Hey, let's learn rails and set up a website!" That kind of thing. Peer group matters too. :/

ThrowAway9392 13y ago

I can strongly identify with your story. However, I have been able to "cure" my ADHD, please read my comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6908027 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6908027 and let me know what you think.

atmosx 13y ago

I envy you for having the feeling that you do the best you can do. I'd like to make it a constant, but I can't. I'm so happy for myself when it happens and strangely, I never care about the result - it's liberating.