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Uruguay's president José Mujica: no palace, no motorcade, no frills
- xweb 13y agoImmediately searched for "moving to Uruguay" after reading this. The thought of a sane politician is so refreshing.
- grecy 13y agoIt's very beautiful, and people are extremely friendly and happy. I highly recommend a visit, if nothing else.
- ggambetta 13y ago"Visit and nothing else" is a great idea. Living there isn't.
- grecy 13y agoHave you been? What's your firs hand experience? I spent over 2 years in Central and South America, many months in a few countries. I didn't get to spend very long in Uruguay, but it seemed great to me.
- ggambetta 13y agoNot "been" - I was born and raised, and lived the first 30 years of my life there. For my first-hand experience, and why I left, read my comments here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6886261 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6886261 , especially my second one.
- baddox 13y agoI don't know much about the guy, but I would recommend doing more extensive research on his and politics in Uruguay before thinking about moving there.
- jere 13y agoI had a similar thought. AMURICA? More like A Mujica? Am I right? >1972 Imprisoned again. Remains in jail for more than a decade, including two years' solitary confinement at the bottom of a well, where he speaks to frogs and insects to maintain his sanity. There's something amazing about politicians who spend decades in prison but still have the drive to go into politics afterwards (e.g. Mandela).
- VladRussian2 13y agofascinating. "The president is a former member of the Tupamaros guerrilla group, which was notorious in the early 1970s for bank robberies, kidnappings and distributing stolen food and money among the poor. He was shot by police six times and spent 14 years in a military prison, much of it in dungeon-like conditions." Is t-word applicable here ? :)
- mullingitover 13y agoDon't be so quick to cast judgment until we've established whether he was a left-wing terrorist or a right-wing freedom fighter. /s
- tcdent 13y agoThat depends on wether you're a banker, or a peasant.
- dep_b 13y ago....or Menem....
- saryant 13y agoMove to Wyoming. I used to run into the governor and his daughter at Baskin Robbins, no security detail or entourage.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- saryant 13y agoI... what? Are we really so divided as a nation that our choice of ice cream now has political consequences?
- ars_technician 13y agoIt's a good thing that icky, conservative Baskin Robbins is banned from blue states. Oh wait: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=baskin+robbins,+san+jose,+ca https://maps.google.com/maps?q=baskin+robbins,+san+jose,+ca
- notanidiot5 13y agoOh, the horrors of fiscal responsibility!
- toomuchtodo 13y agoRed states leach on blue states: http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_reckoning/2012/10/25/blue_state_red_face_guess_who_benefits_more_from_your_taxes.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_reckoning/2012/10/25/blue_sta...
- soneca 13y agohttp://www.buzzfeed.com/conzpreti/reasons-why-you-need-to-move-to-uruguay-in-2014 http://www.buzzfeed.com/conzpreti/reasons-why-you-need-to-mo... Superficial lists aside, I lived in Uruguay for some months and I loved it. Uruguay and the uruguayans are great!
- hcarvalhoalves 13y agoNot so fast. South america is a weird place (disclaimer: I live in Brazil). The overall vision is that the coming of democracy, after a history filled colonization, monarchies and military dictatorships in most countries, has been a net win; but at the same time, the presidential figure gets a disproportionate amount of worshiping in all of those, which is a sign that the democracy has not fully matured. As positive as the bills passed by Mujica may be, the notion that the president has to be some sort of Robin Hood, Batman of the poor, is problematic, as it inflates the State, turns the legislative power useless, and has a tendency to pass popular policies, as opposed to good policies. EDIT: Brazil is falling prey to that ideology, as many other countries around here, where the approval of the president is at an all time high, despite the government's failure in addressing all the systemic issues (education, crime, public health, infra-structure, foreign investment). There's an awful cognitive dissonance between what the population perceives and what results are, mainly because the poor are misinformed and cannot judge (the government will always blame an external force: the opposition, capitalism, USA, whatever), and the middle-class prefers to ignore reality (for them, it's better to have an incompetent, but left-wing government than to forfeit their ideologies).
- unhe 13y agodude... if you think democracy will save the world, then you might as well believe in the spanish inquisition... well, only if you believe in american democracy. But what democracy is there when Bush was elected twice and Obama twice as well, and , in the name of democracy, declared a war on a poor little country.... for me you can call Tor quemada to be the next american president and i will still prefer the democracy those south american countries have...
- DominikR 13y ago> has a tendency to pass popular policies, as opposed to good policies Isn't that the point of a democracy? What do you think how many wars, regime changes and dictatorships (all sponsored by the US) South America would have seen in the last 50 years if every single one of those aggressions had to pass a popular democratic vote in the first place? I do not think that there ever has been a majority in any country (where the basic needs of everyone is met) that would consistently vote pro war. I my view the real problem is that we only get those "good policies" and never the chance to choose or at least vote for policies we actually like.
- ggambetta 13y agoHahaha, no. Please read my comments about him, and about why I ran out of the country, here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6886261 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6886261
- ilamont 13y agoPope Francis has also rejected some of the traditional trappings of the Papacy (1): For his unveiling as pope Wednesday to the throng in St. Peter's Square, he shunned a special fur-trimmed red half-cloak and golden cross in favor of plain white vestments and his usual iron cross. To go pray at a church in central Rome on Thursday, he hopped into a regular Vatican sedan, not the papal limousine. He prefers a simple miter to more elaborate, richly decorated headgear. He reportedly has more simple living arrangements than his predecessor.(2) Not as frugal or simple as Mujica, but a big shift from his predecessor, Benedict, who "loved the pomp and circumstance." (1) 1. http://articles.latimes.com/2013/mar/15/world/la-fg-pope-trappings-20130316 http://articles.latimes.com/2013/mar/15/world/la-fg-pope-tra... 2. http://www.thecatholictelegraph.com/pope-of-the-people-pope-francis-to-live-in-vatican-guesthouse-not-papal-apartments/13355 http://www.thecatholictelegraph.com/pope-of-the-people-pope-...
- tptacek 13y agoHe apparently did the same thing as a cardinal in B.A.; he took an apartment near the "palace" the cardinal normally resides in; you can see pictures of it online.
- mistermumble 13y agoThere is also the example of Evo Morales of Bolivia, who chose not to move into the Presidential Palace, and still lives in the same small modest apartment with his wife and roommates. See picture of the apartment here: http://estaticos03.elmundo.es/suplementos/imagenes/2006/05/08/1146952801_extras_portadilla_0.jpg http://estaticos03.elmundo.es/suplementos/imagenes/2006/05/0... Original article in Spanish newspaper El Mundo: http://www.elmundo.es/cronica/2006/549/ http://www.elmundo.es/cronica/2006/549/ Translated version here: http://www.ibaibarriaga.com/reportages-detalle.php?id=11 http://www.ibaibarriaga.com/reportages-detalle.php?id=11
- _delirium 13y agoThere's been somewhat of a trend in that direction since Pope John Paul I in 1978 kicked it off by downplaying some of the royal-seeming aspects of the papacy: he switched to using "I" instead of the royal "we", and opted for a simpler inauguration ceremony instead of being crowned with the papal tiara in the traditional coronation. John Paul II continued some of that trend towards more informality, though Benedict moved a few things back in the other direction (not so far as to bring back the tiara, though).
- eudox 13y agoI'm so god damn tired. First Gawker, then HuffPo, and now the Guardian. "The President is so austere!". With his own money. This is who he is: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.elobservador.com.uy%2Fnoticia%2F254697%2Faca-nadie-se-va-a-hacer-rico%2F http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&tl=en&u=ht... "Weed!" That only the State can grow and sell (Smoking it was always legal, and buying/selling has always been and will continue to be illegal). If you think Uruguay is a "liberal dreamboat", as one Gawker article said, then please, move in. We can even exchange citizenships. If misery is your thing, then by all means, do whatever country you live in a favor, and move to Uruguay. It's not like this continent can get any worse.
- glesica 13y agoSo what is actually wrong with it? Nothing you mentioned sounds bad at all (and the translation of that article seemed pretty poor, so hard to draw conclusions). I would LOVE to live in a more "socialist" country. I'd much rather be poorer in a place where my basic needs are met and I don't have to fear starvation or freezing to death if I catch an unlucky break. Instead of a rising tide lifting all boats, I'd rather lower all the boats but make sure that none of them sink.
- notanidiot5 13y agoYes, because we see news reports of poor American citizens dying everyday because of starvation. Keep pushing your propaganda though.
- smtddr 13y agoDon't forget, for most Americans... one unexpected hospital bill is all that stands between them and financial ruin. USA can be an okay place to be as long as you don't get sick...
- vasilipupkin 13y agoMost Americans have insurance so your assertion is dubious
- xacaxulu 13y agoAnd marijuana is legal. Uruguay is an adult in a room full of children.
- BrokenPipe 13y agoCome on, the rest of the world is not "children" they are adults which intentionally lie and deceive the larger population into prohibition and other things that fuel criminality and state oppression.
- ggambetta 13y agoI wish. Right now Uruguay is a country run by children.
- bpodgursky 13y agoUruguay's population is 3.3 million, which is a bit smaller than Oklahoma, for comparison. It's not shocking to me that a head of state of a small country like that doesn't have all the trappings and security a of a country of 100mm / 300mm / a billion people.
- jules 13y agoI'm pretty sure Uruguay can afford a palace and a motorcade ;-)
- tcdent 13y agoThe article states there is a palace, but he has repurposed it as a shelter for the homeless. This is is a deliberate decision, not becasue of a lack of resources.
- macspoofing 13y agoSuch a meaningless populist gesture. I suppose the symbolism is...something.
- deletes 13y agoHe is showing what kind of person he is. The gesture is probably unprecedented in the world.
- mikeash 13y agoA homeless shelter is "meaningless"? Wow. I could understand downplaying its significance (e.g. the leader of a country could do more good with policy that improves his country's economy) but giving people shelter is not "meaningless" no matter how you slice it.
- macspoofing 13y agoNothing wrong with a shelter. However the the act of designating the presidential palace as a homeless shelter is meaningless because it a) doesn't actually fix anything (one shelter does not a social policy make and has no wider impact - and that's what national governments concern themselves with) b) there is no good reason to re-purpose that particular building, as opposed to another building or spending a few extra bucks and building another. I may be showing my cynical side, but it seems the only reason this was done was to score some cheap PR points with the voters.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- erict19 13y agoI also enjoyed the profile of him in the nytimes last year: After Years in Solitary, an Austere Life as Uruguay’s President - http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/05/world/americas/after-years-in-solitary-an-austere-life-as-uruguays-president.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1& http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/05/world/americas/after-years...
- xweb 13y agoGee, it sounds awful. On recent tax reform: "Especially surprising was the lack of opposition from the upper strata of Uruguayan society, who would almost assuredly pay more taxes as a result of the reforms.... There are few associations or organizations that unite the country’s elite even today, and Uruguay’s political parties tend to develop broad “catch-all” coalitions that refrain from aligning to closely with the wealthy and alienating the majority of voters. Thus, the economic elite tend to have very weak influence on political decision making, including tax reforms." http://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/Uruguay_Taxation_2013 http://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/Uruguay_Taxation_201...
- singold 13y agoWould you mind expanding on your this? As an Uruguayan myself, I think this: >> the economic elite tend to have very weak influence on political decision making, including tax reforms. IS a good thing.
- wrongc0ntinent 13y agoPretty sure that was sarcasm, but either way, the above link is worth reading.
- patrickg_zill 13y agoI think any elite above a certain dollar amount or level of power, would just go elsewhere. Isn't Uruguay right beside Argentina, and Paraguay, for instance? And you can get a residency visa for Uruguay if you can show $500 a month income (I am told). Actually, Uruguay seems like a cool place to hang out... will add to bucket list.
- memracom 13y agoThink about it. Everyone gets a free computer from the state. Of course only a percentage of those will learn how to program it, but imagine what an experienced professional software developer could do in a country like that, with a ready source of junior developers who all speak fluent Spanish, the second largest language group worldwide after Mandarin. If you are good at coaching/mentoring younger developers then Uruguay sounds like a good country to move to and start a software business. You would handle the English language versions and your colleagues would do the Spanish language version. Mobile apps, web apps.
- smtddr 13y agoOffTopic: The picture used in this article looks like a 3D rendering... http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=121&t=1105204 http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=121&t=1105204
- dep_b 13y agoMujica is probably one of the better leaders in South America. Mainly by not doing too much instead of the big bold moves that his colleagues at the other side of the Rio Plata favor so much. But stop the worshipping please.
- ggambetta 13y agoNo, he isn't. The country has gone to shit under his "leadership": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6886261 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6886261
- dep_b 13y agoSince the production of cocaine shifted more southwards to satisfy the always needy users of the Western nations after it became harder and harder to produce in Colombia all countries in the region have rising problems with security.
- unhe 13y agoThis prooves that the biggest examples come from the smallest things. This should apply to all startups in this place. I always thought that a president should serve its people, but it seems that nowadays presidents only serve themselves. Jose Mujica is way ahead of this time, for a world with a different kind of mentality. Only thing i can say is that he is right, and the most of the world seems to be against his ideas and ideals. It is getting more common to see latin american presidents go agains the defacto world standards. Lets start by Evo Morales, Rafael Correa, Maduro and lets remember Hugo Chaves. So what if Uruguay is poor, at least they dont have the enemies NorthAmerica has. So what if they tax or not the weed, at least they have education to all children unlike mexico or colombia who are fighting a drug war that is affecting only its people and not the narcs money :)
- S4M 13y agoIt's very nice to read about a political leader who renounces to the ostentation people in power usually have. However I am a bit concerned for the man's security. Since he can't be corrupted, assassination would be an option for a powerful group that sees him as an obstacle. For example, it's very plausible that a mafia would see its revenues drop from the sales of cannabis, and so would have strong interests to have cannabis illegal - I don't know the revenue the mafia generates from cannabis, I'm just taking this as an example, and for that reason would try to assassinate Mujica hoping his successor would be more malleable. However as a former guerrillero Mujica must know well what he is doing about his security. Having said that I do hope his example of leading a simple life even at the highest level will be replicated.
- rodgerd 13y ago> However I am a bit concerned for the man's security. Since he can't be corrupted, assassination would be an option for a powerful group that sees him as an obstacle. The biggest risk to South American leaders has tended to be agents of the US government. No security detail is going to achieve much against another illegally-financed Contra campaign, a Grenada invasion, or a replay of Chile.
- markvdb 13y agoHm, indeed... http://www.yachana.org/teaching/resources/interventions.html http://www.yachana.org/teaching/resources/interventions.html
- gwu78 13y ago"A revolution is when you change your thinking."
- yarou 13y agoWe need more leaders like this in the US. This man understood the debilitating condition of poverty, and despite all the odds, succeeded with no help from anybody.
- skrebbel 13y agoThis is really nice to read, but it's not that special. For example, the Dutch prime minister earns €144.000 euros a year. It's a high salary, but nothing at all that affords a palace. A good senior programmer earns the same in the valley, and the taxes here are higher. I find this whole idea that presidents should be posh and it's super-special if they're not, well, a bit odd and basically thr wrong approach. We should be amazed, instead, when presidents build ridiculous palaces for themselves, like the White House or Putin's Palace [0]. I don't understand why people can look at the White House with any sense of awe. To me (and I'm about as politically centred as they get), it's a giant show off of the haves towards the have-nots. Nya-nya, look at my fancy big white palace with lots of armed guards and hundreds of expensive paintings. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putin's_Palace http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putin's_Palace
- crdoconnor 13y agoThe flip side of that coin is that poorly paid elected officials are much easier to bribe. In the US Congress (& even Presidents) view elected office as a stepping stone to a better paid corporate retirement. Look at how much Clinton gets paid to speak at Goldman Sachs' events.
- mseebach 13y agoGenerally, heads of states and governments aren't meant to go buy their official residences, they have the use of one provided by the state. The Dutch prime ministers official residence is Catshuis. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catshuis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catshuis Also, you're conflating head of state and head of government. Mujica and Putin are heads of state, Rutte is head of government. The Dutch head of state is the king, and he has a couple of palaces at his disposal.
- a8da6b0c91d 13y ago> build ridiculous palaces for themselves I'd go further and say the whole model of a gleaming capital city with ornate temples of governance is well out of date. Most representative government could be handled over conference calls and the internet. You could rent out a convention center somewhere a few times a year to hold sessions.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- stfu 13y agoI thought the pandering to the underbelly ideology would only be celebrated among the reddit crowd. Sad to see that hn has been increasingly infected with these ideas as well. Sure, I am all for supporting the homeless and needy, but come on, re-purposing the presidential residence as a homeless shelter? That is the epitome of a populist gesture! If he is the president, he should act like a president, dress like a president and live like a president. I, at least, would want my country be represented among equals. Inviting over other heads of states to your two bedroom apartment in the suburbs might be cute if you are pandering to certain segments of the voting population. But unless he wants to become the Mother Teresa of international politics this is just a joke.
- Tomis02 13y agoI don't understand your indignation. Just because this guy is in a minority compared to most presidents does not mean he is wrong. "Infected with these ideas", really? Is it not you who has a fossilized thinking in regard to what other people should do? "he should act like a president, dress like a president and live like a president". Why, because you say so? I believe that if he is the president then he should act respectfully to his citizens, of which a lot still live in poverty. Dressing up in the most expensive clothes, living in luxury houses and eating only the finest food is a slap in the face of every person in that country who was not lucky enough to be born in a position that would grant them a good life.
- a8da6b0c91d 13y agoThe trappings of imperial grandeur still seem alien and disconcerting to the american. We don't have a history of it. For the first ~80 years of the american republic the politicians were mostly retired old guys working part time. The scope of the central government only first reached a european scale in the 1930s. Even then, FDR drove himself and his family around in the family car. Elanor Roosevelt frequently did the cooking in the white house. With the talk of the pope's scaled down lifestyle, it's funny to read about how weirded out American catholic representatives were at the first vatican council way back in 1869. The pomp was strange, and a lot of the ideas about social hierarchy were strange.
- pera 13y ago
- geekymartian 13y agoUruguayan here. About the populist act: the presidential palace itself was not used as a homeless shelter, just the barbecue (has a roof) (that is kind of "luxurious" for the poor standards of living down here) If you're planning to move, please note that we have a state that charges you 23% of taxes on ALL products and services, plus a 20% to 35% of taxes over your earnings. And what you get for free if you're middle class? nothing, you just pay for lower class benefits. Also real state is crazy, properties on the nicest neighborhoods (nice for the standards here obviously) cost more than an apartment in Manhattan. Everything has a ton of taxes because upper class must support lower class. The problem with that wonderful idea is that lower class gets now a lot of benefits for free, and they don't want to work more to get out of lower class and start paying to help other lower class citizens obviously. Since Mujica is the president more and more stuff is getting taxes to help his social help strategies, making worker class people flee the country. I won't be worried about working and paying taxes if some of that is reflected around in the country, but all the money goes to pay state employees or health care to unemployed people (health care system which is about to collapse) or the state retirement system (since there's lower and lower workforce this one will collapse in a few years too). If you want to buy anything imported, you got a huge tax over that too. For example cars have 100% of taxes, if you buy a car for 10k in other places here it costs 20. Public spaces are dirty as hell, and the level of security is very low (you can get mugged because somebody wants your sneakers). Mujica may have good ideas, but the execution is very poor and the outcome is terrible. He is the kind of guy who fixes the world chatting on a bar, not a president. my 2 cents
- imd23 13y agoI'm Uruguayan and I love my country but please, Argentina is at least 2 or 3 times cheaper in everything and you have way more options and things to do. Also, I've just came from Buenos Aires, Argentina yesterday, me and my friends feel way more safe in Buenos Aires' streets than in Montevideo. We are really far from perfect.
- GFischer 13y agoI'm Uruguayan too and I don't feel safer in Buenos Aires. I do agree security has gone down the drain and is now the #1 problem here (I was robbed twice this year). And I also agree we're far from perfect. We do get some things right at least :)
- speeder 13y agoUruguay people fume when they read all those Mujica praising articles. I saw lots of Uruguyans upset on Reddit, and I have some Uruguyan roommates that explained to me why they hate Mujica. A couple recurring points: 1. Education worsened. 2. Crime skyrocketed, one of my roommates was a cop in Uruguay and said when he was a cop there was about 350 arrests per year, now there is that number in one month and only in the capital, and for more violent crimes, like murder, where the most serious crime he usually arrested someone was stealing without using force. 3. Although the president is populist and socialist, somehow people now are starving, my roommates are here in Brazil to earn money to ship to their families, and they said this was not necessary before Mujica, one claims that the government took 150000 USD that his mother left in a savings account. 4. Mujica openly bribed voters. Several expat Uruguyans repeated the story that Mujica paid airfare to anyone willing to go back to Uruguay during elections and vote for him. 5. Mujica is fake poor. Although he gives away his salary, the population believes he gets a cut from Brazilian and Argentinean gold laundered there. 6. Marijuana was made legal only to increase government revenue, not in form.of taxes, but by having a law mandated monopoly. There are lots of other complaints, these are the common ones.
- mschuster91 13y agoMarijuana was made legal only to increase government revenue, not in form.of taxes, but by having a law mandated monopoly So what? It's better for the money to end up in state hands than in the hands of a multi-national mafiya network. Hey, I bet the US budget crisis could be solved by properly taxing drugs and shutting down law enforcement/DoC institutions not needed for a "War On Drugs" any more...
- pfortuny 13y agoMhj... Palaces, motorcades and "frills" are designed to allow the governors to work from the "abstract", which is the only sensible way to make good, consistent and long-term policy. The first question that comes to mind is... Is the palace his property to turn it (or just part of it) into a shelter? Because being president does not turn you into the owner of the palace. What is the former presidential driver working at? Etc.
- NicoFrank 13y agoI live in Uruguay and I can tell that all this Mujica thing has a lot of marketing on top of it. He is just a drunk old man that hasn´t done anything successful in his life. He is really unqualified for the job he is doing and usually uses the slogan "I tell what I think" because he is usually drunk.