31 ms·

[Disclaimer: This is just an opinion.] I think a large part of this has to do with cultural attitude, and how projecting yourself as unnecessarily positive pay

[Disclaimer: This is just an opinion.] I think a large part of this has to do with cultural attitude, and how projecting yourself as unnecessarily positive pays off in American culture. I bet most of the studies in that paper were done in the US, or at least in the West, and would have shown different results in a different culture. In the US, saying something like "Oh yeah, I want to be pretty good at it, maybe a bit better than average." is considered a recipe for failure. Every parent seems to think that their kid is special, top of the class, Ivy League material with perfect scores everywhere. As a result, you get a large number of peoplewho self-assess overly highly, amongst whom there are a few competent people. Also, with the tendency to not actually describe people at their appropriate level, there tends to be a sort of arms race with people evaluating themselves higher and higher. So an 'average' person becomes 'wonderful', and a 'good' person becomes 'stratospheric'.

dhaneshnm 13y ago
I have to agree with you being an immigrant.If they have conducted the same study in different cultures,they would have found contradictory results.For example,the over emphasis given to the more experienced and older people may make senior staff over access their ability in a professional setting.
- buckbova 13y ago
  Where are you from? I've been to the Ukraine and those folks had a pretty high opinion of themselves.
KingMob 13y ago
Former cognitive neuroscientist here. Yes, what you're describing, the illusory superiority effect, was originally demonstrated in Westerners, but found not to replicate as well in Asian cultures.
- j_baker 13y ago
  What exactly are "Westerners" and what exactly are "Asian cultures" in the context of the research you speak of?
  - notlefthanded 13y ago
    I think the generalization here is in individualistic vs collective, and a difference in style of communication. This sums it up pretty well: http://bsix12.com/east-meets-west/ http://bsix12.com/east-meets-west/
    - j_baker 13y ago
      I would posit that part of the reason behind differences in illusory superiority are due to a difference in how you measure narcissism between cultures. You can't use the same test in a Western culture as you would an Eastern culture. Collectivist cultures aren't immune to the narcissistic problem. They're just narcissistic in different ways. In fact, I would say they're more susceptible to it. Look at the whole Chinese "Tiger Mom" thing. Asian cultures place very high expectations on their people just as Western cultures do. A western narcissist would say "I'm God's gift to mankind". An eastern narcissist would say "I'm God's gift to the collective/family/cooperative". For example, the Narcissistic Personality Inventory is based on the DSM, an American diagnostic tool. One of the questions is: Do you "prefer to blend in with the crowd" or "prefer to be the center of attention". I would imagine a more Eastern narcissist would choose the former while a more Western narcissist would choose the latter. Also, "I am more assertive" vs "I wish I were more assertive". People from face-saving cultures probably wouldn't even know how to answer this, while a Western narcissist would probably choose the former.
j_baker 13y ago
Narcissism is the very definition of a first-world problem. As a personality style, it's far more prevalent in advanced societies. Once you get beyond mere survival, you start seeking self-actualization, which means people start trying to fulfill their own potential. This is a double-edged sword. On one hand, societies that are more narcissistic (like the US) allow individuals to do more things for society on their own. On the other hand, societies that are narcissistic expect people to do more.
- Florin_Andrei 13y ago
  > On the other hand, societies that are narcissistic expect people to do more. And also have a very skewed perception of reality. It's pretty easy to have large swaths of population premising their entire world view on what is essentially self-serving mythology. It's almost like the human psyche needs some amount of adversity to stay healthy. The cat that is too fat is also probably slightly insane, or at least unrealistic - it's only after you rub its nose into the dirt that it comes back to its senses. (That came out more blunt than I intended, but the general idea is the same.)
marcosdumay 13y ago
> In the US, saying something like "Oh yeah, I want to be pretty good at it, maybe a bit better than average." is considered a recipe for failure. To be fair, you used the wrong example. Saying something like that IS a recipe for failure - there are too many areas that somebody could decide to become good at; becomming just above average on your choosen area means you are about worthless. And that's another problem with people's perception. Exceptionalism is the rule, people are diverse.
- parennoob 13y ago
  I guess it depends upon what you consider. For example, when I first take a dance class, my attitude is "let get the basics straight, maybe I can learn to do some basic moves and hold my own." I have seen way too many people who expect to be Fred Astaire within 5 weeks, and then end up dancing horribly.

dhaneshnm 13y ago

I have to agree with you being an immigrant.If they have conducted the same study in different cultures,they would have found contradictory results.For example,the over emphasis given to the more experienced and older people may make senior staff over access their ability in a professional setting.

buckbova 13y ago
Where are you from? I've been to the Ukraine and those folks had a pretty high opinion of themselves.

KingMob 13y ago

Former cognitive neuroscientist here. Yes, what you're describing, the illusory superiority effect, was originally demonstrated in Westerners, but found not to replicate as well in Asian cultures.

j_baker 13y ago
What exactly are "Westerners" and what exactly are "Asian cultures" in the context of the research you speak of?
- notlefthanded 13y ago
  I think the generalization here is in individualistic vs collective, and a difference in style of communication. This sums it up pretty well: http://bsix12.com/east-meets-west/ http://bsix12.com/east-meets-west/
  - j_baker 13y ago
    I would posit that part of the reason behind differences in illusory superiority are due to a difference in how you measure narcissism between cultures. You can't use the same test in a Western culture as you would an Eastern culture. Collectivist cultures aren't immune to the narcissistic problem. They're just narcissistic in different ways. In fact, I would say they're more susceptible to it. Look at the whole Chinese "Tiger Mom" thing. Asian cultures place very high expectations on their people just as Western cultures do. A western narcissist would say "I'm God's gift to mankind". An eastern narcissist would say "I'm God's gift to the collective/family/cooperative". For example, the Narcissistic Personality Inventory is based on the DSM, an American diagnostic tool. One of the questions is: Do you "prefer to blend in with the crowd" or "prefer to be the center of attention". I would imagine a more Eastern narcissist would choose the former while a more Western narcissist would choose the latter. Also, "I am more assertive" vs "I wish I were more assertive". People from face-saving cultures probably wouldn't even know how to answer this, while a Western narcissist would probably choose the former.

j_baker 13y ago

Narcissism is the very definition of a first-world problem. As a personality style, it's far more prevalent in advanced societies. Once you get beyond mere survival, you start seeking self-actualization, which means people start trying to fulfill their own potential. This is a double-edged sword. On one hand, societies that are more narcissistic (like the US) allow individuals to do more things for society on their own. On the other hand, societies that are narcissistic expect people to do more.

Florin_Andrei 13y ago
> On the other hand, societies that are narcissistic expect people to do more. And also have a very skewed perception of reality. It's pretty easy to have large swaths of population premising their entire world view on what is essentially self-serving mythology. It's almost like the human psyche needs some amount of adversity to stay healthy. The cat that is too fat is also probably slightly insane, or at least unrealistic - it's only after you rub its nose into the dirt that it comes back to its senses. (That came out more blunt than I intended, but the general idea is the same.)

marcosdumay 13y ago

> In the US, saying something like "Oh yeah, I want to be pretty good at it, maybe a bit better than average." is considered a recipe for failure. To be fair, you used the wrong example. Saying something like that IS a recipe for failure - there are too many areas that somebody could decide to become good at; becomming just above average on your choosen area means you are about worthless. And that's another problem with people's perception. Exceptionalism is the rule, people are diverse.

parennoob 13y ago
I guess it depends upon what you consider. For example, when I first take a dance class, my attitude is "let get the basics straight, maybe I can learn to do some basic moves and hold my own." I have seen way too many people who expect to be Fred Astaire within 5 weeks, and then end up dancing horribly.