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I have been "bricklayer B" in this hypothetical scenario when working at a large corporation with a terrible boss. "Bricklayer A" was constantly rewarded for w

I have been "bricklayer B" in this hypothetical scenario when working at a large corporation with a terrible boss. "Bricklayer A" was constantly rewarded for working hard. I was constantly reprimanded for wasting my time since I was deemed to have a much larger "potential," despite producing more output and with a higher quality than most others on my team. This ended up with my leaving that team. So I can't agree that "bricklayer B" is always preferred, but I would say that a good manager would usually prefer that choice. Good managers are not easy to find.

gknoy 13y ago
I think the GP's point is exactly that: With a physical contractor, you want it done, to spec, as quickly as possible. Anyone can tell that B is a better bricklayer than A, because we can see that the same work got done, but more efficiently, and are happy because we had to pay them less. With software, it's hard for people to tell that the finished product for Team B is as good as (or better than) that made by Team A, and therefore all they can look at is often effort. They see team A responding to alerts, alarms, production issues, etc, all night and weekend, and then see you cruise out at 5.
- mcv 13y ago
  Walls are easy to understand. Software isn't. Sometimes comparing one piece of software to another piece of software is like comparing a garden shed to a skyscraper.
  - singingfish 13y ago
    I think a software developer is more like a carpenter (and sysadmins are like plumbers, and electricians are like devops etc). I assisted in laying a 150m2 hardwood floor from a 40 year old warehouse earlier this year. There were quite a few invisible processes that were required to get the floor right. And it wasn't clear at the start that the job would be successful. But because of a very skilled carpenter, and my dedication in doing lots of prep work for him (cleaning, grading and flipping the boards) we got a result that cost the same as new boards[1] and looks amazing, and will last another half a century at least. [1] only because I got the boards for wholesale price.
  - Shamanmuni 13y ago
    Neither software nor architecture are easy to understand. The wall example is similar to "Write a simple calculator capable of doing addition, substraction, division and multiplication". Anyone can tell if that software works as expected or not and have some idea if it's well done or not. A similar comparison would be a team designing and building a fully functional house on a budget. In that example it's not easy at all to assert how well they are working, as happens in software development.
  - jimbokun 13y ago
    I don't think it's nearly so hard to understand. Does the software solve your problem? Then it's good software. If not, then what are you paying the programmers for, anyway?
    - mcv 13y ago
      But some problems can be solved in a day, others require an immense amount of work. Not everybody can tell the difference.
- twistedpair 13y ago
  There is more to bricklaying than shacking bricks. Go look at old structures. You'll see some in Rome where the bricks are still standing 2000 years later. Now look at a typical American patio that cracks in four years and starts to shift. Most people just see bricks, but there are many other factors that will determine if the wall stands the test of time.
  - dllthomas 13y ago
    To be fair, it's perfectly possible that the typical Roman patio cracked and warped in four years. We don't see the things that didn't survive.
    - lostlogin 13y ago
      This may be true, and while I am no archeologist, the summer I spent digging up Roman stuff disagrees. Their style of bricks, more like tiles, is very strong. I'd guess it relates to the ratio of tile to mortar.
      - dllthomas 13y ago
        I don't see how that disagrees substantially. If there was substantial variation in projects (intentional or unintentional), both could easily be the case.
  - lostlogin 13y ago
    Pre 1940s brickwork is all pretty great in my opinion. I have way too many recycled bricks, for paths and gardens. Some are in place, others waiting to be used. They look great and often have names, places etc stamped into them. The brickwork on Edwardian houses, above doors and windows for example, is great. All the angles and precise corners. And all done with hand tools. The best bit is that they wear in. A bit of grime and weather and they look even better. Compared to modern bricks which fall apart when the surface fails or turn out to be made of concrete, old bricks are fantastic. Bricks are another of my strange obsessions. I'll go back to my corner now...
dreamfactory 13y ago
Indeed, the post is about crappy management and little else. This is the real story - we talk about scarcity of engineers but it's as nothing compared to the scarcity of effective technical management, which is an industry scandal IMO.

gknoy 13y ago

I think the GP's point is exactly that: With a physical contractor, you want it done, to spec, as quickly as possible. Anyone can tell that B is a better bricklayer than A, because we can see that the same work got done, but more efficiently, and are happy because we had to pay them less. With software, it's hard for people to tell that the finished product for Team B is as good as (or better than) that made by Team A, and therefore all they can look at is often effort. They see team A responding to alerts, alarms, production issues, etc, all night and weekend, and then see you cruise out at 5.

mcv 13y ago
Walls are easy to understand. Software isn't. Sometimes comparing one piece of software to another piece of software is like comparing a garden shed to a skyscraper.
- singingfish 13y ago
  I think a software developer is more like a carpenter (and sysadmins are like plumbers, and electricians are like devops etc). I assisted in laying a 150m2 hardwood floor from a 40 year old warehouse earlier this year. There were quite a few invisible processes that were required to get the floor right. And it wasn't clear at the start that the job would be successful. But because of a very skilled carpenter, and my dedication in doing lots of prep work for him (cleaning, grading and flipping the boards) we got a result that cost the same as new boards[1] and looks amazing, and will last another half a century at least. [1] only because I got the boards for wholesale price.
- Shamanmuni 13y ago
  Neither software nor architecture are easy to understand. The wall example is similar to "Write a simple calculator capable of doing addition, substraction, division and multiplication". Anyone can tell if that software works as expected or not and have some idea if it's well done or not. A similar comparison would be a team designing and building a fully functional house on a budget. In that example it's not easy at all to assert how well they are working, as happens in software development.
- jimbokun 13y ago
  I don't think it's nearly so hard to understand. Does the software solve your problem? Then it's good software. If not, then what are you paying the programmers for, anyway?
  - mcv 13y ago
    But some problems can be solved in a day, others require an immense amount of work. Not everybody can tell the difference.
twistedpair 13y ago
There is more to bricklaying than shacking bricks. Go look at old structures. You'll see some in Rome where the bricks are still standing 2000 years later. Now look at a typical American patio that cracks in four years and starts to shift. Most people just see bricks, but there are many other factors that will determine if the wall stands the test of time.
- dllthomas 13y ago
  To be fair, it's perfectly possible that the typical Roman patio cracked and warped in four years. We don't see the things that didn't survive.
  - lostlogin 13y ago
    This may be true, and while I am no archeologist, the summer I spent digging up Roman stuff disagrees. Their style of bricks, more like tiles, is very strong. I'd guess it relates to the ratio of tile to mortar.
    - dllthomas 13y ago
      I don't see how that disagrees substantially. If there was substantial variation in projects (intentional or unintentional), both could easily be the case.
- lostlogin 13y ago
  Pre 1940s brickwork is all pretty great in my opinion. I have way too many recycled bricks, for paths and gardens. Some are in place, others waiting to be used. They look great and often have names, places etc stamped into them. The brickwork on Edwardian houses, above doors and windows for example, is great. All the angles and precise corners. And all done with hand tools. The best bit is that they wear in. A bit of grime and weather and they look even better. Compared to modern bricks which fall apart when the surface fails or turn out to be made of concrete, old bricks are fantastic. Bricks are another of my strange obsessions. I'll go back to my corner now...

dreamfactory 13y ago

Indeed, the post is about crappy management and little else. This is the real story - we talk about scarcity of engineers but it's as nothing compared to the scarcity of effective technical management, which is an industry scandal IMO.