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California Arrests the Owner of a Revenge Porn Site
- kmfrk 13y agoIf you need a primer for this horrible corner of the web, this is a fantastic and compelling article: http://www.xojane.com/it-happened-to-me/charlotte-laws-hunter-moore-erin-brockovich-revenge-porn http://www.xojane.com/it-happened-to-me/charlotte-laws-hunte....
- andyroid 13y agoInteresting read, thank you. Still I can't help but to feel that the most sad part of this is all the commotion over an exposed left boob. That's actually a big deal? Don't get me wrong - I can totally relate to her feeling violated as it should be in nobody else's power to decide how her personal photos should be handled. I just can't let go of the feeling that perhaps if we had a more relaxed perception of the human body, this would be no more than a shrug and a would spare a lot of trauma. We will never get rid of assholes, but that apparently her job was in jeopardy because of this - and that this is seemingly accepted as okay as it isn't even questioned - was the real WTF realization for me. That is not the work of an asshole, it is the work of a truly degenerate society.
- Crito 13y agoThere was a picture and personal details. It is not as simple as puritan values giving people leverage over one another, this family was left questioning how safe they were in their own home.
- andyroid 13y agoAnd her personal details being available online would be a more reasonable explanation for her job being in jeopardy? I wasn't questioning or trying to diminish the violation or how she and her family perceived it. I was just sickened by the fact that it was seemingly entirely normal that her job was on the line because of the violation she was a victim of and that this wasn't called out at all. That is a violation not from a single asshole but from an entire society. While we may take the fight and perhaps score wins on the assholes perpetrating this, what is that worth if we silently acknowledge their line of reasoning?
- Crito 13y ago"And her personal details being available online would be a more reasonable explanation for her job being in jeopardy?" It was a more than reasonable explaination for why they felt physically unsafe. This isn't just about her damn job, they changed their locks.
- sliverstorm 13y agoSo long as there is a line in the sand of privacy, assholes will figure out how to abuse it and make people miserable. And there will always be a line in the sand somewhere, unless we completely abandon the very notion of privacy. It just so happens that line happens to be somewhere around "nudity" right now. So don't get caught up in where the line is. For can you not picture the exact same story in Victorian times? "Oh, but if only we as a people were not so prudish, to be upset about an ankle..."
- andyroid 13y agoDefinitely. But if you're not employable because your boob is exposed somewhere on the internet I would say that the current position of the line is pretty important to question.
- sliverstorm 13y agoWhat I'm contending is that somebody, possibly you, will always feel that way, no matter where the line is put.
- dictum 13y agoOf course revenge porn is disgusting, but I think more people should stand up and make it clear that what makes it disgusting is not so much the nudity, but the lack of consent and the aggression/humiliation. I could be mistaken, but even in Victorian times, I think many people felt that being bothered about showing ankle was dumb, but didn't stand up because, hell, "everyone seems to be disgusted by it, don't they?" I still believe the media should start emphasizing how dumb it is to pester and punish people whose nude pictures got leaked instead of essentially saying, "ooh, careful with your nude pictures or they might end up on the internet!!!".
- sliverstorm 13y agowhat makes it disgusting is not so much the nudity, but the lack of consent and the aggression/humiliation Is that not intrinsically obvious to everyone? Is there anyone saying, "We must shut down Hunter because he is publishing nudity"? I thought we were all angered because of the lack of consent, aggression, and humiliation?
- jakejake 13y agoI wonder if he's going to pay $250 to get his photos off of mugshots.com
- tn13 13y agoI am curious to know if I can make my girlfriend sign a document giving me the absolute rights of all the photographs I might click of hers. [I am only hypothetically speaking.]
- jimktrains2 13y agoYou own the rights to any photo you take, regardless of who is in it. However, you can't use the subject to advertise or endorse something w/o their consent iirc (ianal).
- grecy 13y ago>You own the rights to any photo you take, regardless of who is in it. Are you sure? I remember reading about a bunch of lawsuits against people that had taken photos of iconic shapes (coke bottle, certain cars) and the maker of the iconic shape claimed copyright. (I can't find a link right now)
- jimktrains2 13y agoHow was that image being used was probably important in those cases.
- grecy 13y agoAre you saying that even though I own the copyright to an image I can't use it however I want? (Genuinely confused)
- jimktrains2 13y agoYes. You can't use the subject of the image to advertise or otherwise promote something without the subjects consent, but the image itself is your property. You could take a picture of a random person in public and publish it in a gallery, but you couldn't use that image to sell your brand of pop, iirc and ianal. Sorry I can't find a good link right now.
- cobrausn 13y agoSo, what I'm seeing is that if he had not tried to extort people by demanding money to remove the photos, his site would not have been illegal?
- jacalata 13y agoThat would explain the charges of extortion, but not identity theft (the conspiracy charges went with the extortion). The identity theft is listed in the complaint as "did willfully and unlawfully obtain personal identifying information of Jane Doe #1 and used that information for an unlawful purpose to wit, to harass and annoy, without the consent of Jane Doe", about 25 separate counts. It's not quite clear to me what behaviour this covers, but I think it's adding identifying info to the photos - and if just that was illegal, that would be a pretty good change it sounds like.
- PhasmaFelis 13y agoI expect (hope) that child pornography distribution will be added to the charges as they build the case.
- ZoFreX 13y agoLibel too presumably, in the cases of the photoshops^Wimages manipulated by Adobe Photoshop(R)
- rsynnott 13y agoLibel isn't (generally) criminal; it would be up to the people involved to take such a suit, and most probably wouldn't have the means to do so.
- tedunangst 13y agoYou also need to prove that the perpetrator knew the images were fakes, which is usually pretty difficult.
- tptacek 13y ago
- timr 13y agoAnother "revenge porn" operator was on On The Media last week, and I've rarely had a more visceral reaction against another person in my life: http://www.onthemedia.org/story/revenge-porns-latest-frontier/ http://www.onthemedia.org/story/revenge-porns-latest-frontie... (EDIT: originally misattributed this interview as the guy arrested today; I was wrong.)
- blah32497 13y agoReally? I thought it was very humanizing and interesting to see the guy behind it all. He clearly caught up in the money and attention. Ofcourse he was a complete asshole, but he was self aware and felt bad about what he did. He is just the epitome of a troll - feeding off of other's misery. Schadenfreud to the Nth level.
- timr 13y agoThat struck me as crocodile tears -- the telling moment for me was when Garfield asked him if he'd post pictures of his own mother or sister, and he reacted as if the question were completely absurd. I decided then that he was either stupid, sociopathic, or both. In any case, you can't be sincerely sorry about that sort of behavior, and still do it regularly for fun.
- blah32497 13y agoThe question WAS absurd given the context. He clearly explains right before that he does it because he enjoys doing the job - he enjoys trolling people, and he enjoys the money. He isn't doing it because he has some sick set of principles. He is NOT for instance saying that all pictures of naked people should be posted on-line or anything like that. So if he's doing it completely for his own enjoyment, why would he post pictures of his naked mom or sister? Why would he want to troll himself? Like he says, that doesn't make any sense. The fact that Garfield didn't try to understand his motivations was what shocked him. Garfield's attempt at painting him as a sociopath was a wonderful piece of editing (and frankly defamation). Unfortunately OTM does this all the time. They feign objectivity for most of the interview, and then generally towards the end they editorialize in some small way so that they don't come off as sympathetic.
- yummyfajitas 13y agoIts great that the power of the law is currently being directed at great big jerks, but do we really think it will stay this way? These revenge porn sites are journalism. And apparently we are all now cheering the government as it shuts down publications whose motives and views we disagree with. http://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2013/defending_hunter_moore.html http://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2013/defending_hunter_moor...
- blueblob 13y agoIt is not journalism to hack people's computers, steal their stuff and pit it online.
- ianhawes 13y agoBut in most cases, nobody was "hacked" at all. The photos were distributed, without limitation, to 1 or more people by the actual subject of the photos.
- rblatz 13y agoI read an article a week or two ago about a mother that was a former private investigator researching the owner of one of these sites. She claimed that a lot of the women featured on the site had their info gathered by someone hacking their gmail account. I'll search for a link when I'm not at work. Don't really want revenge porn showing up in my search history here.
- byerley 13y agoWhen has the media ever had a good handle on what "hacking" means and how prevalent it is? Why would someone with the ability to "hack" a large number of gmail accounts choose nude photos to make their money with? I can't imagine the payoff is comparatively good and large-scale blackmail is a pretty good way to get targeted for prosecution. Further, aren't these pictures in their email because they were sent to someone? How would the average person distinguish between their account being "hacked" for the purpose of retrieving the picture opposed to the receiver sharing it? It sounds more like the instinctual "my account was hacked!" response to something embarrassing.
- tptacek 13y agoYou want to read a real story about this, Popehat is (as usual) your best outlet; he and Marc Randazza are coordinating an investigation of Craig Brittain, who appears to have set up a revenge porn extortion scheme using a fake "takedown lawyer" to enable victims to pay him to remove entries from his site. Worth reading if only for extreme schadenfreude value. http://www.popehat.com/2012/10/30/the-takedown-lawyer-lets-help-marc-randazza-investigate-a-scammer-shall-we/ http://www.popehat.com/2012/10/30/the-takedown-lawyer-lets-h...
- asmithmd1 13y agoIf the photo is a "selfie" why can't they assert their copyright and force the photo to be taken down with a DMCA takedown notice to the web hosting company if the site owner can't be found or is unresponsive?
- tptacek 13y agoThe photos often aren't selfies. If they are, the process for getting them removed is still onerous, and their publication remains malicious and (in this case and others) extortionate.
- DanBC 13y agoWhat happens if the site is hosted in anywhere but US?
- alan_cx 13y agoWhere ever it is, there would be local laws. Next,the US reserves the right to prosecute its own citizens even if they commit what the US thinks is a crime in another country, regardless of local law. On top of that, there may be an extradition treaty in place. Then to stretch a bitter point....... Failing all that, of course we know the US will kidnap.... sorry, "render" people.... All that's needed there is for them to define blackmail as a form of terrorism. Heh, then I suppose one could justify a drone strike!!!
- seniorsassycat 13y ago
- Mikeb85 13y agoWhile 'revenge porn' is a scumbag move, women should be thinking twice when taking pictures of themselves naked (men too). It's easy enough to send a picture to the wrong person, to lose your phone, to have your SO open the picture in a compromising social situation (in a meeting, public places, etc...), in addition to the 'revenge' scenario. It's easier to simply not take the picture than to assume your ex won't be a douchebag after you break up.
- imgabe 13y agoIt's also really easy to not upload a photo to a website. Blaming the victim is not the answer.
- Mikeb85 13y agoIt's not blaming the victim. It's simply stating that in complicated relationships where feelings are likely to get hurt and people do enact various forms of vengeance (women included), it's best to have a little vigilance. Expecting that no former lover will ever act out against you is unrealistic. The 'sexting' thing has gotten out of hand, to the point where kids are being put into jail for having photos of underage kids of the same age, celeb photos are leaked all the time, etc... It's better to avoid taking the photos than to try avoid the consequences later.
- jacalata 13y agoIt's also good to start amending laws so that obvious bad actions are punished and simple ones like 'two 14 year olds with pictures of each other' are not.
- penguat 13y agoIt's entirely possible to take a photo, delete it, and for it to still exist in a retrievable form. And if I want to take pictures of myself naked for my own information and entertainment on my own devices, that should be my prerogative. Someone having their email account compromised is not acting foolishly - they are not acting. The hacker is. They're a victim, and by that point have very little they can do about it. Acting foolishly is not the same as inviting crime or violent acts; the victims should not take any blame for that - although they may seek advice to prevent or mitigate similar attacks in the future.
- sliverstorm 13y agoThat’s why I’m standing with Hunter Moore. He’s a great big jerk, but he needs to have the right to post facts that politically powerful people like Charlotte Laws want to keep hidden What about facts like her home address, home telephone number, and social security number? Does Moore need the right to publish those things if she wants to keep them private?
- yummyfajitas 13y agoNewspapers occasionally publish these things - see the recent example of an upstate NY newspaper digging up the addresses of gun owners. Or see the nyt widely publicizing the location of the new Goldman Sachs HQ, something that was nominally private. (I say "nominally" because like the address of assorted gun owners and revenge porn victims, these things are a matter of public record.) Send the editors to jail?
- knodi 13y agoI'm not sure I agree with this. The owner of the site didn't post any content him self or steal anything. I know and understand that the content of the site updated by its users has harmed many people and is morally wrong. But they should be going after the users that updated the content not this guy. Ask you self whats the different between anonib.com and revenge porn site?
- detcader 13y agoWhat's the difference between non-sexual harassment and sexual harassment?
- PhasmaFelis 13y agoI take it you didn't read the article. Please do so now, paying special attention to the words "blackmail" and "extortion".
- blah32497 13y agoAt least with this guy we had some recourse. When some Polish programmer makes a copy cat website no one will be able to take it down. Bollaert just showed us the new reality: You can't stop the internet from trolling. Everyone missed the moral of the story and just sent the law after him. (I think if he played this off as a social experiment to expose the world we live in, he'd have gotten a lot more slack )
- kimonos 13y agoWhat an absurd way of earning money..
- camus2 13y agoWell, some make money in more absurd ways, like the (War)Defense industry...
- SilasX 13y agoIf it takes this long to stop something like this, then god help you if you're victimized in a less elaborate crime!
- kingkawn 13y agoThe cultural outcome of this someday is going to be that everyone has had their sex exposed somewhere, so it stops being a big deal. Like all sorts of other previously taboo topics. That day will be far better.
- omarkatzen 13y agoI was shocked to learn that this was legal (in other states) in the first place. Disgusting.
- ps4fanboy 13y agoDoes this count as revenge porn under these laws? http://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/shortcuts/2013/aug/06/peter-dowling-australia-sexting-penis-wine http://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/shortcuts/2013/aug/06...
- rlt 13y agoCalifornia is getting serious with efforts to end the scourge known as "revenge porn," in which men who want to hurt women (usually as "revenge" for dumping them) post naked photos of the women online and then encourage their community of fellow misogynists to harass them. Revenge porn is definitely not just a male vs female thing. IIRC IsAnyoneUp had a large portion of male victims.
- JulianMorrison 13y agoGood. Everyone who owns, works for, frequents or defends these sites is a sociopath and a failure as a human being.
- Pitarou 13y agoAbout goddam time.