21 ms·

Doom released 20 years ago today

256 points by timmillwood 13y ago

ChrisArchitect 13y ago
Some more nostalgia and retrospective over on Verge http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/10/5195508/doom-20th-anniversary-retrospective http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/10/5195508/doom-20th-anniver...
cmdkeen 13y ago
1/3 of the game released as shareware compared to today's pay for the game before it is done, sell it at release and keep selling you DLC. At least with Steam the more obnoxious DRM has died a death for many games (Ubisoft I'm looking at you).
- spiritplumber 13y ago
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4yIxUOWrtw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4yIxUOWrtw If Doom was made today....
- Cthulhu_ 13y ago
  Except it's more like 2/3rds. Or 3/3rds with a 4th and 5th part added as content expansions. Doom 2 was pretty much that; same engine, more levels.
- petercooper 13y ago
  It was a pretty good system because I wasn't good enough at games to easily complete the first episode of DOOM so my parents never needed to buy it for me. Indeed, perhaps 80% of my gaming experiences as a kid were off of cover disks and shareware with very few games bought.
- Crito 13y ago
  > "pay for the game before it is done" There is an upside to this, where some games will be released as partially complete, sell for a reasonably low price (none of that $60-80 USD nonsense), and get user feedback on gameplay and content as development continues for a few more years. Games like Minecraft and Kerbal Space Program both do this; they would probably be stuck in development hell of several years then become vaporware if they didn't sell before completion. (Incidentally, these are the only two games I currently own.)
yodsanklai 13y ago
Maybe it was a revolution in video games. But to me, it coincided with my forced transition from Amiga to PC. From then, I almost completely stopped playing video games (and programming as a hobby). On a side note, I recommend the book "masters of doom" that that tells the story behind the game.
neovive 13y ago
I still remember playing Doom on my 486 DX2. It was a big step up from Wolfenstein 3D and really paved the way for the FPS gaming genre.
pavlov 13y ago
I respect the mastery of the Doom creators, but for me personally, it marked the point where computer games went downhill. Shooting at blobs through the eyes of an anonymous virtual character just never worked for me. I remember playing Wolfenstein 3D for about an hour, then getting bored with the repetitiveness and lack of identification with the protagonist, and never touching the game again. When Doom came out, I tried it for 10 minutes, concluded it's W3D with better graphics and aliens instead of Nazis, and never touched it again. Of course I don't mind that others enjoyed the game. Unfortunately these games became so popular that everything turned to first-person 3D and killed most of the genres I had enjoyed, and so I eventually stopped playing completely.
- jiggy2011 13y ago
  I don't think Doom was to blame for somehow dumbing games down, before Doom and FPS it was all about side scrolling shooters.
  - Associat0r 13y ago
    You are wrong, the flight-sim, RPG, adventure and space flight games genre together with many other types of first person games were flourishing way before Doom. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm8VTZ2fyos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm8VTZ2fyos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aipGP5oAuWQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aipGP5oAuWQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uXZxDzqHIo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uXZxDzqHIo It was Elite back in 1984 that broke the mold of simple side-scrolling games. http://www.eliteforever.co.uk/history.html http://www.eliteforever.co.uk/history.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffQ_Uw55S3o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffQ_Uw55S3o Also back in 1993 there were major technical achievements like: Strike Commander http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL-ElsuJY8A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL-ElsuJY8A F-15 Strike Eagle 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koNyQ7J88xY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koNyQ7J88xY Papyrus Indycar Racing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfnNo7AG7FA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfnNo7AG7FA Frontier: Elite 2 http://frontier.co.uk/games/older/frontier_elite_ii http://frontier.co.uk/games/older/frontier_elite_ii https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yc9o_ldmlVs&t=72 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yc9o_ldmlVs&t=72 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9E1E1F7AA6193498 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9E1E1F7AA6193498 Which are sadly ignored by mainstream media.
jimwalsh 13y ago
Wolfenstein 3D played a large part of driving my interest in computers and learning how they really work under the hood when I was young. Plus the release of MapEdit really made you feel powerful and a young kid getting involved in computers. Doom is the point where I became interested in programming and it got me looking to how you actually made these games. id Software eventually open sourcing Wolf3D really helped spur that on. On top of that, Carmacks talk and his always interesting .plan file (a blog before blogs) made him seem very accessible and really opened up the world of game programming. I still enjoy going back and reading parts of the Wolf 3D or Doom code to see how they handled certain problems/limitations. I'd agree with the other poster that 'Masters of Doom' is a great read and worth it to grab if you haven't read it already.
- fdej 13y ago
  Ditto! Making Doom mods was the main reason that I taught myself programming. And I probably learned more about development (in a general sense) from making Doom maps, than I ever did in school...
  - azmenthe 13y ago
    Almost same exact story although I never got into Doom modding but did make my own games in high school because of doom. Actually reading "Masters of Doom" truly planted the seed for my entrepreneurial spirit, the first time I realized "I can get good at something and create something just for me. I can value just from sheer will"
- petercooper 13y ago
  It's also worth reading his some of his .plan archives as well which have been stored in various places. Lots of interesting bits of wisdom, insight into his thought processes, and even odd practices like going away to a hotel for a week to just spend time alone to learn new tech or code :-) (something I'd love to try someday..)
mcphilip 13y ago
I still play Doom and Doom 2, I even list it as an interest in my HN profile. It's the perfect FPS, to me. There's still a reasonably active community making custom WADs. It's amazing what some people have come up with for this 20 year old series [1]. There's a ladder of difficulty in custom WADs that I've been working my way up over the years before finally throwing in the towel because of Scythe 2 Map 23 [2]. On a side note, John Romero and Tom Hall did an hour long post mortem on the design and development of the original Doom a couple years ago [3]. I found it interesting. [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxFlWeduknY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxFlWeduknY [2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guHbCtbxiEo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guHbCtbxiEo [3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKg85-TXY5w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKg85-TXY5w
- swah 13y ago
  I would like to play it on a mobile platform - anyone knows the best way?
  - nailer 13y ago
    Same here. One thing I can recommend is to avoid 'Doom RPG' from iD. It's turn based, and has none of Doom's character.
  - danbee 13y ago
    You can get DOOM for iOS. Plays particularly well on an iPad.
    - swah 13y ago
      I forgot to mention that I hate touch controls. Something more like PSP/Nintendo DS/gcw-zero/bluetooth controller is more likely...
  - AlexMax 13y ago
    Doom Touch is very well done port of prBoom+ to Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.beloko.doom&hl=en https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.beloko.doo... It's capable of playing the original trilogy as well as many classic levels and level-sets that are marked as doom2.exe, limit-removing, and BOOM compatible.
MichaelTieso 13y ago
This is very fitting since I started reading "Masters of DOOM" book just a couple days ago. Haven't been able to put it down. Great read about the two Johns and the story of id Software. http://www.amazon.com/Masters-Doom-Created-Transformed-Culture/dp/0812972155 http://www.amazon.com/Masters-Doom-Created-Transformed-Cultu...
redbonsai 13y ago
There's a wonderful post on Metafilter about this very subject: http://www.metafilter.com/134597/Twenty-Years-of-Ultra-Violence http://www.metafilter.com/134597/Twenty-Years-of-Ultra-Viole...
rzt 13y ago
I was a Mac kid, so my world was Marathon, but I think a lot of the lessons are the same. I remember building my own custom worlds, really screwing up the physics, and then deleting en masse. Whenever I play shooters now, I still think, "Man, I should just get a copy of Doom and play that instead." Too much noise in some of these games –– I just want to blow stuff up.
- lostlogin 13y ago
  I also played Marathon. I still occasionally hear the alien chatter. The way you could aim up and down was something that made Marathon way better for me - especially in multiplayer.
- wsc981 13y ago
  I preferred Marathon a lot over Doom. Some reviewers have called it "the thinking man's" shoot-em-up and I think this holds some truth. Of couse Marathon was released almost a year after Doom's release, so Bungie had plenty of time to improve the genre in many areas. Not just in looking up and down, the game also featured: - weapons with multiple modes and reload mechanics - advanced lightning effects - "5D" space (one of the multiplayer levels used this) - physics (e.g. grenade hopping and missile ballistics) - neutral and allied npc's - more varied elevator / switches system (e.g. in the "Colony Ship For Sale Cheap" level) - motion tracker in UI - nifty level mechanics, like the levels without air (e.g. "G4 Sunbathing") I still wonder if Jason Jones could have become an equal to Carmack if he kept his focus on coding games ...
- ptr 13y ago
  Another Marathon guy here. Spent some summers ago just playing the first two games through, they're still great. I especially like the music. The Marathon community is still alive with AlephOne (http://marathon.sourceforge.net/ http://marathon.sourceforge.net/), an open source port of the Marathon engine, with multiplayer support.
js2 13y ago
Lots of mentions of W3D in the comments here. Wonder how many folks played the original Castle Wolfenstein on an Apple ][.
- robodale 13y ago
  Me, and that game was awesome. Also Beyond Castle Wolfenstein. I can still hear the German commands shouting at me...
drzaiusapelord 13y ago
John Carmack is only 43. He was 23 when this was released. It still blows my mind how young he is. Notch is only 9 years younger than him. Some people just get good at a very young age. Carmack is still in his prime and his move to the Oculus, hopefully, will bring sci-fi like VR to the masses.
- terhechte 13y ago
  Yeah, have a look at this picture: http://www.idwaregames.freehosting.bg/images/legends.jpg http://www.idwaregames.freehosting.bg/images/legends.jpg They're all so young.
- at-fates-hands 13y ago
  I Remember reading "Smartbomb: The Quest for Art, Entertainment, and Big Bucks in the Videogame Revolution" and they had a pretty section on Doom. I remember them quoting Romero when he said Carmack was a beast at programming. He just kept him fed with pizza and diet coke and he would just hammer out code for hours on end. Still crazy to think these guys were in a kind of heyday for video games. Sure, it's bigger now, but that was when it was in its infancy and they changed an entire industry with one game. Makes you wonder what 3D Realms could have done had they had the focus these guys had.
terhechte 13y ago
I just finished "Masters of Doom" a couple of days ago, and I've been on a sort of Doom/Quake/id/Carmack/Romero information frenzy ever since. It is beginning to consume almost too much of my time but very fulfilling since I was a huge Doom fan back when it came out (I created many levels and mods) and I also really liked the early Quake games. So in the past weeks I read up on all the early id guys, and what became of them after they were fired or left, I did quite some (probably too much) reading on the mess that was Daikatana and how it came to be. I actually find this really interesting, to learn how a project backed with so many employees and so much money can fail so badly, there're probably lessons to learn here (I've even watched somebody play through Daikatana on Youtube). While being on my search, I've found a lot of interesting or not so interesting things. So if you want to spend some time, here's an unordered list of trivia that I stumbled upon: - Somebody playing through Daikatana: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm3b0NJzhnQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm3b0NJzhnQ - Romero Himself on Daikatana, including a GB port of the game that actually got good reviews (never made it to the US though) http://rome.ro/games_daikatana.htm http://rome.ro/games_daikatana.htm - Awful public clash between John Romero and Mike Wilson (former Ion Storm Marketing guy): http://www.kotaku.com.au/2008/01/gamecock_head_tears_into_john_romero_its_getting_ugly-2/ http://www.kotaku.com.au/2008/01/gamecock_head_tears_into_jo... - Ravenwood Fair is a Facebook game that Romero did a couple of years ago (so that's what he's been up to recently): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ravenwood_Fair http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ravenwood_Fair - If you read Masters of Doom, you'll remember that it all started at Softdisk, when Carmack and Hall created "Dangerous Dave in Copyright Infringement", a Super Mario Bros copy. Romero uploaded the original game including their level editor, you can find it here: http://planetromero.com/games/dangerous-dave-in-copyright-infringement http://planetromero.com/games/dangerous-dave-in-copyright-in... - Unreleased Doom Midi Music Files: http://planetromero.com/2007/06/doom-archaeology http://planetromero.com/2007/06/doom-archaeology Sadly, the original Doom editor, DoomEd was never released. I read that it wasn't particularly good (compared to what is available nowadays) but since it was written in NeXTSTEP, I'd love to port it current OSX (or at least give it a go).
- pirateking 13y ago
  Very cool links, thanks. I have been on a similar journey as I also finished reading "Masters of Doom" last week. Also interestingly, John Romero made a brief appearance at the Homebrew Computer Club Reunion last month (which I attended). I would be very interested in hearing about your ideas for porting DoomEd to OS X. My contact is in my profile. I played Doom and Quake casually back in the day and followed the Daitkatana saga in the game magazines, but never got a chance to play seriously or mess around with the mods (I had a really crappy computer).
NAFV_P 13y ago
The chainsaw in DOOM is based on a real model: McCulloch Eager Beaver http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCulloch_Motors_Corporation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCulloch_Motors_Corporation Since I've used a professional saw (such as a Stihl 260, a 650 and a Husqvarna 395 among others), the Eager Beaver just looks lame now. Chainsaws should have a sticker on them that says how loud they are. The three mentioned above are around 115 decibels, three minutes of use without ear defenders will give you permanent hearing damage. If you want to see a really mean saw... http://www.southsidesales.com/stihl-ms-880-magnum-chain-saw.htm http://www.southsidesales.com/stihl-ms-880-magnum-chain-saw....
- deletes 13y ago
  Do they kill demons faster?
  - NAFV_P 13y ago
    You have to take into account practicality, which basically comes down to the length of the bar. The Stihl 260 is often used with a 15" bar, so it is well suited for skirmishes with imps or zombies in confined quarters. The Stihl 650 and 880 are usually fitted with 36" bars (or even 48" with regards the 880), so less suited to confined spaces, but they would be better suited to larger prey. I bet it could handle a Baron or two. You could be imaginative and use the 880 to slay five demons standing in a row simultaneously.
  - warfangle 13y ago
    Only when the demons don't fight back: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtvZQKoC3vc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtvZQKoC3vc
    - NAFV_P 13y ago
      They won't fight back mate, they will be too scared.
bstar77 13y ago
I would argue that Wolfenstein 3D is more responsible for ushering in the first person shooter genre than Doom. Wolfenstein was original in it's technology, Doom was based on that tech. Both were extremely popular in their time. The main difference is that iD sold their Doom 3d tech (which produced games like hexen and heretic) and did not with their Wolfenstein tech.
- afreak 13y ago
  Actually Wolfenstein's tech was sold to Wisdom Tree to make Super Noah's Ark 3D (or "Super 3D Noah's Ark"). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_3D_Noah's_Ark http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_3D_Noah's_Ark I have the SNES version on a cartridge and it resells for as high as $300 CAD.
  - bobbles 13y ago
    "The game plays similarly to Wolfenstein 3D, but the graphics were changed to reflect a non-violent theme. Instead of killing Nazi soldiers in a castle, the player takes the part of Noah, wandering the Ark, using a slingshot to shoot sleep-inducing food at angry attacking animals, mostly goats, in order to render them unconscious." Awesome
- snorkel 13y ago
  .. But Doom sure felt like next gen tech to the end user. What was impressive and inspiring about id was how they raised the bar on every major release. I remember how many of my friends had to pony up for 4MB of RAM and a new sound card just play DOOM, and how they reacted the first time they played just the trial demo. It was mind blowing. That's what I like about Carmack as an example of an amazing hacker, he pushes the envelope and delivers the goods, and then shares how he did it with everyone else, even competitors. That's what really made the entire gaming industry leap forward.
  - bstar77 13y ago
    I dunno, when I fired up wolf3d for the first time my jaw dropped. I never saw anything like it before. I think a lot of people got exposed to wolf3d after it had been out a while, but with Doom they got to experience the hype leading up to the release. I played wolf3d the week it was released to shareware and it was groundbreaking in every way imaginable back then. Doom took it to a whole new level graphically, but the gameplay was no different. I do agree that Carmack's attitude in general was awesome, he never seems to get intimidated by competition.
ben1040 13y ago
I wonder how many people's GPA plummeted due to the fact that this was released straight into finals season at a lot of universities.
kjozwiak 13y ago
Last week I decided to listen to all the keynotes from Carmack (2002-2013).. So much respect for this man and what he has done for the gaming community.
ColinWright 13y ago
See also "Doom as a SysAdmin Tool" : http://www.cs.unm.edu/~dlchao/flake/doom/ http://www.cs.unm.edu/~dlchao/flake/doom/ Submitted here, but no discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6881099 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6881099
- deletes 13y ago
  Certain processes are vital to the computer's operation and should not be killed. For example, after I took the screenshot of myself being attacked by csh, csh was shot by friendly fire from behind, possibly by tcsh or xv, and my session was abruptly terminated. I wish there was something like that in windows.
Zoomla 13y ago
Wolfenstein definitely started it but Doom was so much better. Modem to modem connections was great. OT: Comcast is having some real issues today.
reillyse 13y ago
This makes me feel very old.
ilovecookies 13y ago
this could be interesting... http://speeddemosarchive.com/Doom.html http://speeddemosarchive.com/Doom.html
bsenftner 13y ago
I was working at E.A., on the 3DO console no less, when one day in early January of '94 one of the guys brought in a copy of Doom. That was the end of any productivity at E.A. for at least a week while that game erupted like a brush fire through E.A. advanced technology group.
- terhechte 13y ago
  I always wanted to have a 3DO back then. Sadly I didn't have the money and they were initially kinda hard to come by in Germany. I loved the concept and idea. Too bad it never amounted to much.
agumonkey 13y ago
Funny how very very creepy this game was and yet there was no problem with that. More than gore and 'biological' lets say, it had ingredients more haunting than Indiana Jones Temple of Doom (NPI) : corpses hanging, skulls, metal chains, spikes ... It didn't require effects to scare you, no hidden monster suddenly revealed through thromboscopic lights as in Doom 3. You just sink in this filthy space.
sergiotapia 13y ago
John Carmack to me is the closes thing to a real Rock Star programmer in the world. He's one of the best software engineers and I follow him on Twitter to see what he's up to. Almost always it's something crazy and new. Here's a video of John choking someone out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X68Mm_kYRjc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X68Mm_kYRjc He's a great role model to aspire to as a software engineer. :)
- dgesang 13y ago
  Ha, and I though I've seen everything about Carmack ... great footage, thanks!
gnator 13y ago
Wow I am currently listening to the master of Doom is an amazingly good audiobook
aaronetz 13y ago
An anecdote: One of my professors, Dan Gordon, authored a paper [1991 Gordon and Chen] which was used in Doom's engine implementation of BSP [1]. He was quite happy to learn about it from me, some 15 years later :) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_space_partitioning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_space_partitioning
shire 13y ago
I remember the first time I played Doom it was one of the best games I ever played, what beautiful memories, nostalgia.
D9u 13y ago
I wasted countless hours playing Castle Wolfenstein 3D... It's hard to believe that over 20 years has elapsed since then. Carmack is one name I can vividly remember, but the one that stuck with me the most is Todd Replogle, of Duke Nukem fame. It was before Wolf 3D and Duke Nukem was one of my first PC time-sinks. Thanks for the trip down memory lane. (again)
NirDremer 13y ago
Damn, I feel old now..

256 points by timmillwood 13y ago

Some more nostalgia and retrospective over on Verge http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/10/5195508/doom-20th-anniversary-retrospective http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/10/5195508/doom-20th-anniver...

cmdkeen 13y ago

1/3 of the game released as shareware compared to today's pay for the game before it is done, sell it at release and keep selling you DLC. At least with Steam the more obnoxious DRM has died a death for many games (Ubisoft I'm looking at you).

spiritplumber 13y ago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4yIxUOWrtw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4yIxUOWrtw If Doom was made today....
Cthulhu_ 13y ago
Except it's more like 2/3rds. Or 3/3rds with a 4th and 5th part added as content expansions. Doom 2 was pretty much that; same engine, more levels.
petercooper 13y ago
It was a pretty good system because I wasn't good enough at games to easily complete the first episode of DOOM so my parents never needed to buy it for me. Indeed, perhaps 80% of my gaming experiences as a kid were off of cover disks and shareware with very few games bought.
Crito 13y ago
> "pay for the game before it is done" There is an upside to this, where some games will be released as partially complete, sell for a reasonably low price (none of that $60-80 USD nonsense), and get user feedback on gameplay and content as development continues for a few more years. Games like Minecraft and Kerbal Space Program both do this; they would probably be stuck in development hell of several years then become vaporware if they didn't sell before completion. (Incidentally, these are the only two games I currently own.)

yodsanklai 13y ago

Maybe it was a revolution in video games. But to me, it coincided with my forced transition from Amiga to PC. From then, I almost completely stopped playing video games (and programming as a hobby). On a side note, I recommend the book "masters of doom" that that tells the story behind the game.

neovive 13y ago

I still remember playing Doom on my 486 DX2. It was a big step up from Wolfenstein 3D and really paved the way for the FPS gaming genre.

pavlov 13y ago

I respect the mastery of the Doom creators, but for me personally, it marked the point where computer games went downhill. Shooting at blobs through the eyes of an anonymous virtual character just never worked for me. I remember playing Wolfenstein 3D for about an hour, then getting bored with the repetitiveness and lack of identification with the protagonist, and never touching the game again. When Doom came out, I tried it for 10 minutes, concluded it's W3D with better graphics and aliens instead of Nazis, and never touched it again. Of course I don't mind that others enjoyed the game. Unfortunately these games became so popular that everything turned to first-person 3D and killed most of the genres I had enjoyed, and so I eventually stopped playing completely.

jiggy2011 13y ago
I don't think Doom was to blame for somehow dumbing games down, before Doom and FPS it was all about side scrolling shooters.
- Associat0r 13y ago
  You are wrong, the flight-sim, RPG, adventure and space flight games genre together with many other types of first person games were flourishing way before Doom. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm8VTZ2fyos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm8VTZ2fyos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aipGP5oAuWQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aipGP5oAuWQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uXZxDzqHIo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uXZxDzqHIo It was Elite back in 1984 that broke the mold of simple side-scrolling games. http://www.eliteforever.co.uk/history.html http://www.eliteforever.co.uk/history.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffQ_Uw55S3o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffQ_Uw55S3o Also back in 1993 there were major technical achievements like: Strike Commander http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL-ElsuJY8A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL-ElsuJY8A F-15 Strike Eagle 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koNyQ7J88xY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koNyQ7J88xY Papyrus Indycar Racing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfnNo7AG7FA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfnNo7AG7FA Frontier: Elite 2 http://frontier.co.uk/games/older/frontier_elite_ii http://frontier.co.uk/games/older/frontier_elite_ii https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yc9o_ldmlVs&t=72 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yc9o_ldmlVs&t=72 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9E1E1F7AA6193498 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9E1E1F7AA6193498 Which are sadly ignored by mainstream media.

jimwalsh 13y ago

Wolfenstein 3D played a large part of driving my interest in computers and learning how they really work under the hood when I was young. Plus the release of MapEdit really made you feel powerful and a young kid getting involved in computers. Doom is the point where I became interested in programming and it got me looking to how you actually made these games. id Software eventually open sourcing Wolf3D really helped spur that on. On top of that, Carmacks talk and his always interesting .plan file (a blog before blogs) made him seem very accessible and really opened up the world of game programming. I still enjoy going back and reading parts of the Wolf 3D or Doom code to see how they handled certain problems/limitations. I'd agree with the other poster that 'Masters of Doom' is a great read and worth it to grab if you haven't read it already.

fdej 13y ago
Ditto! Making Doom mods was the main reason that I taught myself programming. And I probably learned more about development (in a general sense) from making Doom maps, than I ever did in school...
- azmenthe 13y ago
  Almost same exact story although I never got into Doom modding but did make my own games in high school because of doom. Actually reading "Masters of Doom" truly planted the seed for my entrepreneurial spirit, the first time I realized "I can get good at something and create something just for me. I can value just from sheer will"
petercooper 13y ago
It's also worth reading his some of his .plan archives as well which have been stored in various places. Lots of interesting bits of wisdom, insight into his thought processes, and even odd practices like going away to a hotel for a week to just spend time alone to learn new tech or code :-) (something I'd love to try someday..)

mcphilip 13y ago

I still play Doom and Doom 2, I even list it as an interest in my HN profile. It's the perfect FPS, to me. There's still a reasonably active community making custom WADs. It's amazing what some people have come up with for this 20 year old series [1]. There's a ladder of difficulty in custom WADs that I've been working my way up over the years before finally throwing in the towel because of Scythe 2 Map 23 [2]. On a side note, John Romero and Tom Hall did an hour long post mortem on the design and development of the original Doom a couple years ago [3]. I found it interesting. [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxFlWeduknY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxFlWeduknY [2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guHbCtbxiEo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guHbCtbxiEo [3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKg85-TXY5w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKg85-TXY5w

swah 13y ago
I would like to play it on a mobile platform - anyone knows the best way?
- nailer 13y ago
  Same here. One thing I can recommend is to avoid 'Doom RPG' from iD. It's turn based, and has none of Doom's character.
- danbee 13y ago
  You can get DOOM for iOS. Plays particularly well on an iPad.
  - swah 13y ago
    I forgot to mention that I hate touch controls. Something more like PSP/Nintendo DS/gcw-zero/bluetooth controller is more likely...
- AlexMax 13y ago
  Doom Touch is very well done port of prBoom+ to Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.beloko.doom&hl=en https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.beloko.doo... It's capable of playing the original trilogy as well as many classic levels and level-sets that are marked as doom2.exe, limit-removing, and BOOM compatible.

MichaelTieso 13y ago

This is very fitting since I started reading "Masters of DOOM" book just a couple days ago. Haven't been able to put it down. Great read about the two Johns and the story of id Software. http://www.amazon.com/Masters-Doom-Created-Transformed-Culture/dp/0812972155 http://www.amazon.com/Masters-Doom-Created-Transformed-Cultu...

redbonsai 13y ago

There's a wonderful post on Metafilter about this very subject: http://www.metafilter.com/134597/Twenty-Years-of-Ultra-Violence http://www.metafilter.com/134597/Twenty-Years-of-Ultra-Viole...

rzt 13y ago

I was a Mac kid, so my world was Marathon, but I think a lot of the lessons are the same. I remember building my own custom worlds, really screwing up the physics, and then deleting en masse. Whenever I play shooters now, I still think, "Man, I should just get a copy of Doom and play that instead." Too much noise in some of these games –– I just want to blow stuff up.

lostlogin 13y ago
I also played Marathon. I still occasionally hear the alien chatter. The way you could aim up and down was something that made Marathon way better for me - especially in multiplayer.
wsc981 13y ago
I preferred Marathon a lot over Doom. Some reviewers have called it "the thinking man's" shoot-em-up and I think this holds some truth. Of couse Marathon was released almost a year after Doom's release, so Bungie had plenty of time to improve the genre in many areas. Not just in looking up and down, the game also featured: - weapons with multiple modes and reload mechanics - advanced lightning effects - "5D" space (one of the multiplayer levels used this) - physics (e.g. grenade hopping and missile ballistics) - neutral and allied npc's - more varied elevator / switches system (e.g. in the "Colony Ship For Sale Cheap" level) - motion tracker in UI - nifty level mechanics, like the levels without air (e.g. "G4 Sunbathing") I still wonder if Jason Jones could have become an equal to Carmack if he kept his focus on coding games ...
ptr 13y ago
Another Marathon guy here. Spent some summers ago just playing the first two games through, they're still great. I especially like the music. The Marathon community is still alive with AlephOne (http://marathon.sourceforge.net/ http://marathon.sourceforge.net/), an open source port of the Marathon engine, with multiplayer support.

js2 13y ago

Lots of mentions of W3D in the comments here. Wonder how many folks played the original Castle Wolfenstein on an Apple ][.

robodale 13y ago
Me, and that game was awesome. Also Beyond Castle Wolfenstein. I can still hear the German commands shouting at me...

drzaiusapelord 13y ago

John Carmack is only 43. He was 23 when this was released. It still blows my mind how young he is. Notch is only 9 years younger than him. Some people just get good at a very young age. Carmack is still in his prime and his move to the Oculus, hopefully, will bring sci-fi like VR to the masses.

terhechte 13y ago
Yeah, have a look at this picture: http://www.idwaregames.freehosting.bg/images/legends.jpg http://www.idwaregames.freehosting.bg/images/legends.jpg They're all so young.
at-fates-hands 13y ago
I Remember reading "Smartbomb: The Quest for Art, Entertainment, and Big Bucks in the Videogame Revolution" and they had a pretty section on Doom. I remember them quoting Romero when he said Carmack was a beast at programming. He just kept him fed with pizza and diet coke and he would just hammer out code for hours on end. Still crazy to think these guys were in a kind of heyday for video games. Sure, it's bigger now, but that was when it was in its infancy and they changed an entire industry with one game. Makes you wonder what 3D Realms could have done had they had the focus these guys had.

terhechte 13y ago

I just finished "Masters of Doom" a couple of days ago, and I've been on a sort of Doom/Quake/id/Carmack/Romero information frenzy ever since. It is beginning to consume almost too much of my time but very fulfilling since I was a huge Doom fan back when it came out (I created many levels and mods) and I also really liked the early Quake games. So in the past weeks I read up on all the early id guys, and what became of them after they were fired or left, I did quite some (probably too much) reading on the mess that was Daikatana and how it came to be. I actually find this really interesting, to learn how a project backed with so many employees and so much money can fail so badly, there're probably lessons to learn here (I've even watched somebody play through Daikatana on Youtube). While being on my search, I've found a lot of interesting or not so interesting things. So if you want to spend some time, here's an unordered list of trivia that I stumbled upon: - Somebody playing through Daikatana: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm3b0NJzhnQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm3b0NJzhnQ - Romero Himself on Daikatana, including a GB port of the game that actually got good reviews (never made it to the US though) http://rome.ro/games_daikatana.htm http://rome.ro/games_daikatana.htm - Awful public clash between John Romero and Mike Wilson (former Ion Storm Marketing guy): http://www.kotaku.com.au/2008/01/gamecock_head_tears_into_john_romero_its_getting_ugly-2/ http://www.kotaku.com.au/2008/01/gamecock_head_tears_into_jo... - Ravenwood Fair is a Facebook game that Romero did a couple of years ago (so that's what he's been up to recently): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ravenwood_Fair http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ravenwood_Fair - If you read Masters of Doom, you'll remember that it all started at Softdisk, when Carmack and Hall created "Dangerous Dave in Copyright Infringement", a Super Mario Bros copy. Romero uploaded the original game including their level editor, you can find it here: http://planetromero.com/games/dangerous-dave-in-copyright-infringement http://planetromero.com/games/dangerous-dave-in-copyright-in... - Unreleased Doom Midi Music Files: http://planetromero.com/2007/06/doom-archaeology http://planetromero.com/2007/06/doom-archaeology Sadly, the original Doom editor, DoomEd was never released. I read that it wasn't particularly good (compared to what is available nowadays) but since it was written in NeXTSTEP, I'd love to port it current OSX (or at least give it a go).

pirateking 13y ago
Very cool links, thanks. I have been on a similar journey as I also finished reading "Masters of Doom" last week. Also interestingly, John Romero made a brief appearance at the Homebrew Computer Club Reunion last month (which I attended). I would be very interested in hearing about your ideas for porting DoomEd to OS X. My contact is in my profile. I played Doom and Quake casually back in the day and followed the Daitkatana saga in the game magazines, but never got a chance to play seriously or mess around with the mods (I had a really crappy computer).

NAFV_P 13y ago

The chainsaw in DOOM is based on a real model: McCulloch Eager Beaver http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCulloch_Motors_Corporation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCulloch_Motors_Corporation Since I've used a professional saw (such as a Stihl 260, a 650 and a Husqvarna 395 among others), the Eager Beaver just looks lame now. Chainsaws should have a sticker on them that says how loud they are. The three mentioned above are around 115 decibels, three minutes of use without ear defenders will give you permanent hearing damage. If you want to see a really mean saw... http://www.southsidesales.com/stihl-ms-880-magnum-chain-saw.htm http://www.southsidesales.com/stihl-ms-880-magnum-chain-saw....

deletes 13y ago
Do they kill demons faster?
- NAFV_P 13y ago
  You have to take into account practicality, which basically comes down to the length of the bar. The Stihl 260 is often used with a 15" bar, so it is well suited for skirmishes with imps or zombies in confined quarters. The Stihl 650 and 880 are usually fitted with 36" bars (or even 48" with regards the 880), so less suited to confined spaces, but they would be better suited to larger prey. I bet it could handle a Baron or two. You could be imaginative and use the 880 to slay five demons standing in a row simultaneously.
- warfangle 13y ago
  Only when the demons don't fight back: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtvZQKoC3vc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtvZQKoC3vc
  - NAFV_P 13y ago
    They won't fight back mate, they will be too scared.

bstar77 13y ago

I would argue that Wolfenstein 3D is more responsible for ushering in the first person shooter genre than Doom. Wolfenstein was original in it's technology, Doom was based on that tech. Both were extremely popular in their time. The main difference is that iD sold their Doom 3d tech (which produced games like hexen and heretic) and did not with their Wolfenstein tech.

afreak 13y ago
Actually Wolfenstein's tech was sold to Wisdom Tree to make Super Noah's Ark 3D (or "Super 3D Noah's Ark"). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_3D_Noah's_Ark http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_3D_Noah's_Ark I have the SNES version on a cartridge and it resells for as high as $300 CAD.
- bobbles 13y ago
  "The game plays similarly to Wolfenstein 3D, but the graphics were changed to reflect a non-violent theme. Instead of killing Nazi soldiers in a castle, the player takes the part of Noah, wandering the Ark, using a slingshot to shoot sleep-inducing food at angry attacking animals, mostly goats, in order to render them unconscious." Awesome
snorkel 13y ago
.. But Doom sure felt like next gen tech to the end user. What was impressive and inspiring about id was how they raised the bar on every major release. I remember how many of my friends had to pony up for 4MB of RAM and a new sound card just play DOOM, and how they reacted the first time they played just the trial demo. It was mind blowing. That's what I like about Carmack as an example of an amazing hacker, he pushes the envelope and delivers the goods, and then shares how he did it with everyone else, even competitors. That's what really made the entire gaming industry leap forward.
- bstar77 13y ago
  I dunno, when I fired up wolf3d for the first time my jaw dropped. I never saw anything like it before. I think a lot of people got exposed to wolf3d after it had been out a while, but with Doom they got to experience the hype leading up to the release. I played wolf3d the week it was released to shareware and it was groundbreaking in every way imaginable back then. Doom took it to a whole new level graphically, but the gameplay was no different. I do agree that Carmack's attitude in general was awesome, he never seems to get intimidated by competition.

ben1040 13y ago

I wonder how many people's GPA plummeted due to the fact that this was released straight into finals season at a lot of universities.

kjozwiak 13y ago

Last week I decided to listen to all the keynotes from Carmack (2002-2013).. So much respect for this man and what he has done for the gaming community.

ColinWright 13y ago

See also "Doom as a SysAdmin Tool" : http://www.cs.unm.edu/~dlchao/flake/doom/ http://www.cs.unm.edu/~dlchao/flake/doom/ Submitted here, but no discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6881099 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6881099

deletes 13y ago
Certain processes are vital to the computer's operation and should not be killed. For example, after I took the screenshot of myself being attacked by csh, csh was shot by friendly fire from behind, possibly by tcsh or xv, and my session was abruptly terminated. I wish there was something like that in windows.

Zoomla 13y ago

Wolfenstein definitely started it but Doom was so much better. Modem to modem connections was great. OT: Comcast is having some real issues today.

reillyse 13y ago

This makes me feel very old.

ilovecookies 13y ago

this could be interesting... http://speeddemosarchive.com/Doom.html http://speeddemosarchive.com/Doom.html

bsenftner 13y ago

I was working at E.A., on the 3DO console no less, when one day in early January of '94 one of the guys brought in a copy of Doom. That was the end of any productivity at E.A. for at least a week while that game erupted like a brush fire through E.A. advanced technology group.

terhechte 13y ago
I always wanted to have a 3DO back then. Sadly I didn't have the money and they were initially kinda hard to come by in Germany. I loved the concept and idea. Too bad it never amounted to much.

agumonkey 13y ago

Funny how very very creepy this game was and yet there was no problem with that. More than gore and 'biological' lets say, it had ingredients more haunting than Indiana Jones Temple of Doom (NPI) : corpses hanging, skulls, metal chains, spikes ... It didn't require effects to scare you, no hidden monster suddenly revealed through thromboscopic lights as in Doom 3. You just sink in this filthy space.

sergiotapia 13y ago

John Carmack to me is the closes thing to a real Rock Star programmer in the world. He's one of the best software engineers and I follow him on Twitter to see what he's up to. Almost always it's something crazy and new. Here's a video of John choking someone out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X68Mm_kYRjc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X68Mm_kYRjc He's a great role model to aspire to as a software engineer. :)

dgesang 13y ago
Ha, and I though I've seen everything about Carmack ... great footage, thanks!

gnator 13y ago

Wow I am currently listening to the master of Doom is an amazingly good audiobook

aaronetz 13y ago

An anecdote: One of my professors, Dan Gordon, authored a paper [1991 Gordon and Chen] which was used in Doom's engine implementation of BSP [1]. He was quite happy to learn about it from me, some 15 years later :) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_space_partitioning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_space_partitioning

shire 13y ago

I remember the first time I played Doom it was one of the best games I ever played, what beautiful memories, nostalgia.

D9u 13y ago

I wasted countless hours playing Castle Wolfenstein 3D... It's hard to believe that over 20 years has elapsed since then. Carmack is one name I can vividly remember, but the one that stuck with me the most is Todd Replogle, of Duke Nukem fame. It was before Wolf 3D and Duke Nukem was one of my first PC time-sinks. Thanks for the trip down memory lane. (again)

NirDremer 13y ago

Damn, I feel old now..