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Edward Snowden voted Guardian person of the year 2013
- cfontes 13y agoThanks to us? maybe?
- level09 13y agoI'm really surprised Elon Musk only got 11 votes.
- tehwalrus 13y agoI'm not - he's only a businessman, not a political activist, and his companies haven't done anything particularly spectacular this year (Model S was released in 2012). Remember that the Graun is still a UK-based paper, and we don't idolise business-folk the way the US does.
- smackfu 13y ago>we don't idolise business-folk the way the US does Well, only if they are on television shows.
- walshemj 13y agoAnd are dodgy barrow boys (who fucked up his chance at the big time because of poor attention to detail), property developers oh and the accountant who got lucky. I have seen some of the Drgons den types do a live session at a business start up show and my god if there was anything at all technical in the pitch you could see the poor dears eyes glaze over and how out of their depth they where.
- tehwalrus 13y agoI don't think laughing at how ridiculously they act as entertainment counts as 'idolising' them, really :)
- TomGullen 13y agoI get the feeling in the UK we idolise wealth in entrepreneurship more than the US. People talk about Musk and his electric cars and space ships, Zuckerberg for Facebook, Bill Gates for Microsoft, Steve Jobs for Apple, etc. Here in the UK no one knows what any of the Dragons really do, except that they are all wealthy and we should admire them mostly for that.
- tehwalrus 13y agoI don't know anyone from the UK who idolises the dragons. Come to that, I don't know anyone who watches the show, even.
- pessimizer 13y ago>Come to that, I don't know anyone who watches the show, even. Then you should know that your experience isn't very representative, because the ratings for the show can be objectively confirmed.
- tehwalrus 13y agoI don't think anyone knows a representative sample of the population.
- pessimizer 13y agoBut you have evidence that your sample is not representative in exactly the area that you're discussing.
- cs02rm0 13y agoMeaden's a trailer park owner who tried and failed miserably to do some dancing, Bannatyne runs a gym, Hoppen lines cushions up, Jones is the only one who actually has any money despite the only thing I know he's behind is expansys.com (I suppose that backs the HTC accessories store so I have used it) and Linney... well, apparently has something to do with cloud computing but when he first appeared I looked him up and didn't recognise anything he'd been involved in. I'm not surprised no one idolises them. Especially Meaden.
- eterm 13y agoHe's not at all a household name in the UK. I've heard of him only through HN.
- arethuza 13y agoI've probably seen more mentions of Horacio Pagani in UK media than Elon Musk.
- mortehu 13y agoAny time I've seen an article from The Guardian (or Washington Post) in the past 7 months, it's been Snowden related. If the poll was conducted in some other newspaper, maybe the distribution would be different, and there would be more than a meager 2,200 votes.
- alan_cx 13y agoIn the UK? Im surprised he got that many.
- smackfu 13y agoThe voting method was "leave a comment on a story listing the nominees." Only 2000 votes for something like this, on the internet, seems a bit silly.
- dav-id 13y agoIs it surprising really? This guy has given them a dump of documents that they are milking for every penny its worth.
- kybernetikos 13y agoThe way you say that makes it sound like a bad thing, rather than being their obligation to society and chosen job.
- jheriko 13y agoit is when they drip feed the world for sales instead of publishing the information freely in one lump and separately writing articles. the whole situation stinks tbh. despite the damage to NSA and GCHQ a number of other unsavoury elements in government are really benefiting from this...
- dllthomas 13y agoThe drip-feeding has been great! We get to see officials grudgingly acknowledge the latest revelation, and flatly deny we're doing whatever will be released next. Over and over.
- eterm 13y agoThe "lump it" method doesn't work, it's top news for a day then everyone gets back to what they were doing. Dripping it out better highlights the incompetence of those who were tasked to keep it all in check (including journalism as a whole) and the extravagance of what has been going on by matching the scale of the surveilance to the scale of reporting. It also highlights hypocrisy, such as the initial Merkel reaction "how dare they! Oh, well carry on" with the reaction after the revelations that Merkel was spied on "How dare they! We can't let this go on". Not acting because "unsavoury elements will benefit" would just lead to a paralysis, unsavoury elements always find a way to benefit, it's part of what makes them so unsavoury.
- icelancer 13y agoTell Snowden yourself that. He's the one who wants them released in this manner.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- Theodores 13y agoThis is silly. What about Lewis Hamilton and his successful move to the Mercedes Formula One team? He risked life and limb to win points. He is a true hero. This Snowden bloke simply sent some stolen documents to a Guardian journalist before hiding like a coward. I don't feel awards are right unless they are full of evil wrong doers spiced up with a few populist entries. Hopefully Time magazine will have Feinstein win their Person of the Year award. Then order in the universe will be restored.
- dijit 13y agoEdward Snowden will never, ever, be able to return "home", he is in a foriegn country which does not welcome his native language, does not welcome his native people- and he's there for as long as the media still talk about him. given the choice between being Ed Snowden and being Lewis Hamilton, I would choose the latter hands down, every time.
- alan_cx 13y agoHeh, I would describe myself as Lewis Hamilton "fan", and even I had to down vote that nonsense. I mean, its not even like Lewis had a decent season. By his own estimation, he performed poorly and has to do better for Merc next season. If we want to get all F1 about it, look no further than Adrian Newey.
- mistercow 13y agoI'm reminded of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbXTBPN1HhA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbXTBPN1HhA How does it help? Yesterday, we had a whistle blower in here. He helped by revealing the illegal activities of his government committed against their own people. How does racing a Formula One car ... help?
- thearn4 13y agoThe difference in public perception between Snowden and Bradley Manning is interesting. Is it because of the nature of the information leaked? Is it because Snowden got away, and some folks like to root for an underdog?
- r0h1n 13y agoI think it's more because Snowden's disclosures have an implication for average citizens, but not Manning's.
- patrickk 13y agoThe rationale I've heard for Manning is that he was military and betrayed his oath.
- Crito 13y agoSnowden revealed wrongdoing by people that the general public does not feel much of any sort of connection or loyalty to. 'The military', rather than 'the NSA' (both DoD, yes, but still rather distinct in the eyes of the public), is something that the American public has become convinced absolutely must be supported no matter their political stance or position on war. Support for the military must be unwavering, even if you support nothing that the military actually does. Anything short of that is un-American, therefore Manning is un-American.
- scott_s 13y agoManning leaked a large swath of information indiscriminately. The material was interesting to read, but perhaps the most notable thing about it was that there were no revelations. Snowden leaked particular information for a clear purpose. That material has changed political discourse and public perception.
- quarterto 13y agoSlightly offtopic: Her name is Chelsea Manning.
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- gremlinsinc 13y agoI think I'll run for President in 2016 on my platform will be to honor Edward Snowden as a hero, not enemy of state - give a full pardon, and bring him on as a security reform advisor. That + guaranteed basic income - and flat sales tax that fluctuates to pay for everything - and get rid of a lot of the red-tape in congress. -- Our laws need a big red marker, and some duct-tape to make sense in a 2.0 world.
- F_J_H 13y agoI've been offline for a bit. Has anyone made the point that Edward Snowden is today's Nelson Mandela? I'm recalling a conversation I had with someone born and raised in South Africa, who said Mandela was in jail for a reason as he was a terrorist who broke the law, (which of course has been much discussed recently). Someone else chimed in something like "it's different when you break laws to right an injustice..." It's a complex issue, and I'd be surprised if someone hasn't already made the connection. Edit: clarity
- ronaldx 13y agoYulia Tymoshenko is more directly comparable.
- r0h1n 13y agoEh? How so and how on earth?
- dijit 13y agoBecause she was a prisoner of all her wealth before becoming prime minister? \s
- ronaldx 13y agoI would firstly say I don't think there are any good modern-day comparisons to Nelson Mandela, and I don't think this is a productive discussion. However, at least Tymoshenko is a political leader who is imprisoned by her home state for her continuing expression of and leadership in opposition to unjust policy; Snowden is none of these things, and I cannot imagine him taking that role in the future.
- chrisdevereux 13y agoMandela was respected for what he did after being released from prison, rather than what he did before going to prison. When oppressive and divisive regimes fall, it often happens violently and they end up being replaced by regimes that are just as bad if not worse (see: Tsarist Russia, White-majority Rhodesia, many other postcolonial states). That didn't happen in SA, and Mandela is credited with that. If the world ends up looking way more dystopian scifi than it does at the moment, there's maybe a scenario where Snowden ends up being today's Nelson Mandela, but I wouldn't bet on it.
- aet 13y agoHow much money has The Guardian made off Edward Snowden?
- delinka 13y agoI came here wondering whether this exact issue weighed on their decision. Big Headliner == Candidate for Person of the Year?
- robotmay 13y agoProbably not that much, to be honest. Most people here in the UK neither know nor care about him. Which is a real tragedy, but people just don't understand the technology side of it, and probably don't care anyway as they think it doesn't apply to them. These stories have been popular with the Guardian's standard readership, but inside the UK at least, I doubt it has increased its market.
- aet 13y agoI'm thinking the Guardian picked up some U.S. readers, but have no evidence.
- eterm 13y agoThe Guardian have had a large focus to try to pick up US readership for a while (e.g. They launched CIF America). The NSA coverage has probably helped them in that mission, in fact it is probably motivating a lot of their NSA coverage, the UK "switched off" over the issue almost day one.
- dublinben 13y agoTheir switch to a .com domain, and expansion of US-focused coverage was well-timed to coincide with these revelations.
- danieldk 13y agoDoes it matter? It's not as if The Guardian bought Snowden's information in a bidding race. Snowden trusted Greenwald, who happened to be associated with The Guardian. A newspaper should be judged on quality. If this leads to more income, all the better.
- jheriko 13y agoi'm sure they are very grateful for all the attention and paper sales he has provided them... maybe they could dump out all the revelations in one go instead of drip feeding us? or just make the information public? although to be fair - he has certainly shaped the year's news stories for a good reason. he has enlightened many who were previously naive.
- jokoon 13y agoThat's an actual leaking strategy: if you slowly release those documents, it will be talked about more, and more will be written about it. It also give more time to journalist to analyse it, and debate those documents, as it's not a simple to analyse...
- zmmmmm 13y agoIronically people rant on Manning for just "dumping" a whole lot of documents wholesale. But if you release them slowly people are cynical about that as well. To me it makes sense to do it slowly, apart from other considerations, to judge the effect, impact, ensure your actions aren't hurting people you don't intend, give opportunty for consultation with authorities if they want to come to the party and if it's appropriate. How would you propose it be done?
- ChuckMcM 13y agoIt will be interesting if a US based publication does the same. To do so would be to show a strong disregard for the officially supported narrative. People forget the complexities of emotions during the time of crisis when they look back through the lens of hindsight favorably. If we can sustain the anger long enough to get durable change, Edward will be able to rightfully take some credit for that.