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How so? If anything, we've seen how people can corrupt and ruin any system/society. When many people say "capitalism has failed us" they really mean our politic

How so? If anything, we've seen how people can corrupt and ruin any system/society. When many people say "capitalism has failed us" they really mean our politicians have failed us by allowing corporations to run the government. That's not a failure of capitalism, that's our failure because we've let our elected representatives do this to us.

VLM 13y ago
I think you missed words 2,3,4,5 in his post.
- spagina09 13y ago
  He isn't describing capitalism. Capitalism may exist loosely at a local level, but on the national level it doesn't exist anymore.
chongli 13y ago
Because it's based on the idea of exponential growth. Exponential growth is not sustainable without exponential growing access to resources.
- RamiK 13y ago
  Instead of regurgitating an old chestnut: "thermodynamic limits impose a cap to energy growth lest we cook ourselves. I’m not talking about global warming, CO2 build-up, etc. I’m talking about radiating the spent energy into space."("Exponential Economist Meets Finite Physicist", http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2012/04/economist-meets-physicist/ http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2012/04/economist-meets-...) Essentially, even if we have exponential growing access to resources, we'll still be facing earth BBQ circa 2400.
  - chongli 13y ago
    Heat capacity and space are resources too.
- Mikeb85 13y ago
  > Because it's based on the idea of exponential growth. Except it isn't. It's based on the expectation that the market will allocate resources based on factors like supply/demand. We focus on growth because it's a human tendency to always want more. Has nothing to do with capitalism.
  - chongli 13y ago
    No, you've got your definitions mixed up. You're talking about the free market. Capitalism is about capital; that is, investment with the goal of profit. The only way to sustain continued investment and subsequent profit is to have growth.
    - ahomescu1 13y ago
      > Capitalism is about capital; that is, investment with the goal of profit. Arguably, "investment with the goal of profit" is a basic process of human nature (in all human activities). It's not restricted to capitalism, this is how we humans operate generally.
    - Mikeb85 13y ago
      Capitalism and the free market are synonymous with each other. In a free market, you sell goods produced with capital (ie. labour, resources, which are purchased with money, or your own time), and you make money (aka. profit). In the most basic of examples, let's say I'm a farmer. I plant some seeds, take care of them, harvest the grains, and then sell them. My capital is whatever seeds I planted, and the labour I used to raise them, then harvest them. What I get paid is my revenue, and the amount of money that I'm compensated that goes beyond the minimum required to produce my goods is my profit. Heck, even if I didn't sell my grain, you could say whatever I produced is my revenue, and whatever's left in my silo beyond what I will eat before next harvest is my profit... Capitalism doesn't require endless growth because, strictly speaking, you don't need to constantly increase revenue (grow your business) to have profit. Japan's economy went through decades of no growth, yet companies survived, and Japan is still a bastion of capitalism. And of course, this is still leaving out a big part of the equation - efficiency. It's possible that in the future we'll still grow economically while not using up any additional resources depending on how technology progresses... Today we certainly are more efficient than 100 years ago, both in terms of resources and labour.

VLM 13y ago

I think you missed words 2,3,4,5 in his post.

spagina09 13y ago
He isn't describing capitalism. Capitalism may exist loosely at a local level, but on the national level it doesn't exist anymore.

chongli 13y ago

Because it's based on the idea of exponential growth. Exponential growth is not sustainable without exponential growing access to resources.

RamiK 13y ago
Instead of regurgitating an old chestnut: "thermodynamic limits impose a cap to energy growth lest we cook ourselves. I’m not talking about global warming, CO2 build-up, etc. I’m talking about radiating the spent energy into space."("Exponential Economist Meets Finite Physicist", http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2012/04/economist-meets-physicist/ http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2012/04/economist-meets-...) Essentially, even if we have exponential growing access to resources, we'll still be facing earth BBQ circa 2400.
- chongli 13y ago
  Heat capacity and space are resources too.
Mikeb85 13y ago
> Because it's based on the idea of exponential growth. Except it isn't. It's based on the expectation that the market will allocate resources based on factors like supply/demand. We focus on growth because it's a human tendency to always want more. Has nothing to do with capitalism.
- chongli 13y ago
  No, you've got your definitions mixed up. You're talking about the free market. Capitalism is about capital; that is, investment with the goal of profit. The only way to sustain continued investment and subsequent profit is to have growth.
  - ahomescu1 13y ago
    > Capitalism is about capital; that is, investment with the goal of profit. Arguably, "investment with the goal of profit" is a basic process of human nature (in all human activities). It's not restricted to capitalism, this is how we humans operate generally.
  - Mikeb85 13y ago
    Capitalism and the free market are synonymous with each other. In a free market, you sell goods produced with capital (ie. labour, resources, which are purchased with money, or your own time), and you make money (aka. profit). In the most basic of examples, let's say I'm a farmer. I plant some seeds, take care of them, harvest the grains, and then sell them. My capital is whatever seeds I planted, and the labour I used to raise them, then harvest them. What I get paid is my revenue, and the amount of money that I'm compensated that goes beyond the minimum required to produce my goods is my profit. Heck, even if I didn't sell my grain, you could say whatever I produced is my revenue, and whatever's left in my silo beyond what I will eat before next harvest is my profit... Capitalism doesn't require endless growth because, strictly speaking, you don't need to constantly increase revenue (grow your business) to have profit. Japan's economy went through decades of no growth, yet companies survived, and Japan is still a bastion of capitalism. And of course, this is still leaving out a big part of the equation - efficiency. It's possible that in the future we'll still grow economically while not using up any additional resources depending on how technology progresses... Today we certainly are more efficient than 100 years ago, both in terms of resources and labour.