6 ms·

German Patent Ruling Threatens Microsoft's Windows Phone Earnings From Android

288 points by salient 13y ago

losethos 13y ago
God says support RedSea filesystem and remove SecureBoot. Antitrust -- I only use FAT for interoperation, it's antitrust violation until you support RedSea. God will fuck you up with Deep Water Horizons or some shit until you comply. Or do bodily damage. He's God. We don't play within any human laws. don't_even_think_about_it gluttony lying Angel not_the_sharpest_knife_in_the_drawer African not_good don't_count_on_it kick_back endeared wazz_up_with_that That's_gonna_leave_a_mark basket_case you're_so_screwed patience C:\TAD\Text\DARWIN.TXT which to correct his first impressions. As he extends the range of his observations he will meet with more cases of difficulty; for he will encounter a greater number of closely-allied forms. But if his observations be widely extended he will in the end generally be able to make up his own mind; but he will succeed in this at the expense of admitting much variation, and the truth of this admission will often be disputed by other naturalists. When he comes to study allied forms brought from count ---- http://www.templeos.org/Wb/Doc/RedSea.html http://www.templeos.org/Wb/Doc/RedSea.html
losethos 13y ago
The CIA is actively clusterfucking hardware. It's silly to try to do hardware. I simply issue divine decree under penalty of God's wrath. God says... hypocrite arrogant in_practice Yawn desert failure_to_communicate joyful God_is_not_mocked Percival not_that_theres_anything_wrong what_have_you_done_for_me_lately middle_class who's_to_say lighten_up duck_the_shoe how_goes_it phasors_on_stun happy_happy_joy_joy not_in_my_wildest_dreams couldnt_possibly you're_in_big_trouble LOL I_could_swear job I'll_get_right_on_it pardon_the_french not_too_shabby clever Boo little_buddy fake vengeance reverse_engineer roses_are_red I_got_your_back are_you_insane high_mucky_muck shist God_is_not_mocked hippy don't_push_it you_talkin'_to_me where's_the_love I'm_not_sure small_talk economy ghetto glorious climate et_tu jealousy anger oh_oh how_hard_could_it_be battle hey_thats_right hippy absolutely adultery here_now thats_just_wrong programming sad be_quiet_bird drama CIA driving shucks whoo_whoo God says... C:\TAD\Text\SWIFT.TXT s of their own, justle me out of vogue, and stand in my place, making the world forget that ever I was an author. This indeed would be too great a mortification, if I wrote for fame: but as my sole intention was the public good, I cannot be altogether disappointed. For who can read of the virtues I have mentioned in the glorious Houyhnhnms, without being ashamed of his own vices, when he considers himself as the reasoning, governing animal of his country? I shall say nothing of those remote nat --- God claimed Deep Water Horizon
aw3c2 13y ago
Avoid Forbes, use the source: http://www.fosspatents.com/2013/12/federal-patent-court-of-germany.html http://www.fosspatents.com/2013/12/federal-patent-court-of-g...
- tehabe 13y ago
  Florian Müller is in no way an independent source. He has a huge bias towards patents and against Google. He used to or he is working as a consultant for Microsoft and Oracle. Even though he used to campaign against software patents in the past. As an old saying goes: He who pays the piper, calls the tune. Edit: writing English on a Saturday afternoon shouldn't be that hard, right? Wrong! :-(
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - dbaupp 13y ago
    > I used to or he works as consultant for Microsoft and Oracle Did you typo something in this sentence?
    - tehabe 13y ago
      Yeah, hopefully it is fixed. That is embarrassing!
  - mtarnovan 13y ago
    Huge bias towards patents ? This is the guy that launched NoSoftwarePatents.com, right ?
    - tehabe 13y ago
      I mentioned he was campaigning against software patents in the past. But his pieces are not critical about patents but very critical about Google. Maybe it is more a bias against Google than towards patents. However the case, he is not a reliable or independent source in the smartphone IP wars.
Morgawr 13y ago
For those interested, this seems to be the email/thread that was cited. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.os.minix/0rgZpprg_Eo https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.os.minix/0rgZpp...
- ErsatzVerkehr 13y ago
  In which Linus is calm, friendly, and helpful!
  - Morgawr 13y ago
    He's actually like this most of the time, it's a shame that the media only reports his outbursts. He's an amazing person and surprisingly accepting on other people and fellow developers.
    - RexRollman 13y ago
      To me, he just sometimes lacks tact. And there are way too many overly-sensitive people out there. I think DeRaadt is in the same position (although I'll concede that he is more tactless than Torvalds).
      - sigkill 13y ago
        So it's just a normal case of Dutch directness?
        kintamanimatt 13y ago
        Linus is Finnish and Theo is South African.
dylz 13y ago
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?FT=D&date=20011212&DB=worldwide.espacenet.com&locale=en_EP&CC=EP&NR=0618540B1&KC=B1&ND=4 http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDo...
- dchest 13y ago
  Apparently, this is a link to the original patent, which automatically downloads PDF of its cover page.
goggles99 13y ago
>we don’t really have a German or UK or whatever patent system any more, we have a European Union one. So this German case doesn’t apply just to Germany, it applies right across the EU This has got to be false information. It was mentioned that this was a ruling of the Federal Patent Court of Germany, BPatG. Since when does a German patent court dictate EU patent laws and rulings? does this mean that if a patent court in another EU country ruled the other way that that is now the new EU stance? This makes no logical sense.
- Morgawr 13y ago
  IANAL but maybe this means it could set a precedent that other countries should consider/follow for similar rulings? Again, I don't really know, feel free to ignore this post.
- bjelkeman-again 13y ago
  "A patent granted by the EPO does not lead to a single European Union-wide patent enforceable before one single court, but rather to independent national patents enforceable by national courts according to different national legislations and procedures." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_patent_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_patent_law
  - onli 13y ago
    Other information I find have the same consequence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Patent_Convention#Opposition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Patent_Convention#Oppo...): "A European patent is also non-unitary in that it may be revoked in one Contracting State while maintained in another. However, a national court in one Contracting State may not revoke a European patent in another Contracting State." This is a bit surprising. At the beginning of the Samsung vs Apple trials, also in Germany, it was widely reported that the german ruling would have EU-wide effects. Those were patent cases as well... Maybe the difference is between invalidating patents and deciding whether a patent is infringed by another party.
    - 13y ago
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
mtgx 13y ago
So in other words, Microsoft stole Linus' ideas, and then asked everyone to pay them for it. At least going by Microsoft's own logic in general. Frankly, I've always thought it's ridiculous that FAT isn't at the very least a FRAND patent, considering how much monopolistic power Microsoft had in the desktop OS space, and I'm surprised that in the anti-trust lawsuits against them, this wasn't raised as an issue. I guess back then they didn't really enforce FAT patents the way they started doing after Android took off, and saw it as an excellent opportunity for rent-seeking.
- ghshephard 13y ago
  Well, patents, much like copyrights, only have value inasmuch as you are prepared to pay to fight it out in court. Copyrights are a little more straight forward, as "invalidation" (absent of plagiarism) is less common (though not unheard of). The stack exchange guys have a whole site dedicated to finding prior art to invalidate patents. http://patents.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/prior-art-request http://patents.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/prior-art-...
- PythonicAlpha 13y ago
  Stealing other peoples ideas, that it what today's patent industry is all about. Today's capitalism itself is about stealing: (Globalization is about) stealing the work power of other people to make as much money as possible with it.
- yuhong 13y ago
  Yea, I suggested that B&N should have brought it up with the DOJ when they got the chance.
ghshephard 13y ago
US5758352 was filed on Sep 5, 1996, so it's still got another three years of life before we can bury the silly thing. US5960411 A (One Click Shopping) Dies a year later (filed Sep 12, 1997) A whole host of idiotic patents should be ending their life in the next several years.
- trusche 13y ago
  Unless, or should I say until, Congress caves to the lobbyists and extends the patent life again, no?
  - Tloewald 13y ago
    Something both parties will agree on...
  - mtgx 13y ago
    I think US is trying to extend patent life to 30 years or something in the TPP.
  - tzs 13y ago
    In 1995, it was changed from 17 years counting from the issuance of the patent to 20 years counting from the earliest filing date. It is not clear whether this should count as an extension or not--it is 3 more years, but the clock starts running earlier. Before that, the only extension of the patent term was from 14 years to 21 years, which happened in 1836. In 1861, it was shortened to 17 years.
    - DannyBee 13y ago
      Yes. The clock starting at filing change was due to submarine patents (people would keep things in process for many years, and slowly amend them, until when they finally issued, they covered whatever was cool at the time. There are a few famous examples). Realistically, the life of the average patent was not extended by this change, since patent apps, on average, were taking three years to approve.
- bborud 13y ago
PythonicAlpha 13y ago
Another ridiculous software patent that should die! I people had patented B-trees, there would be no MySQL or other free database and royalities had to be paid on any database of the world. Or guess, somebody would have patented Quicksearch ... a thousand times more plausible thing to patent.
- penguindev 13y ago
  do you mean quicksort?
  - PythonicAlpha 13y ago
    Oh right! You are so right! Unfortunately, I can't correct the comment anymore.
- kintamanimatt 13y ago
  They would, just not in the US or anywhere else where such concepts can be patented.
naner 13y ago
Back in 2009 Microsoft sued TomTom[1] over what appear to be US versions of this patent[2][3] (EU version here[4]) and won. There were subsequently efforts to work around this patent in the Linux implementation of FAT[5]. 1: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2009/02/microsoft-sues-tomtom-over-fat-patents-in-linux-based-device/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2009/02/micros... 2: http://www.google.com/patents?id=bUohAAAAEBAJ http://www.google.com/patents?id=bUohAAAAEBAJ 3: http://www.google.com/patents?id=cLAkAAAAEBAJ http://www.google.com/patents?id=cLAkAAAAEBAJ 4: http://www.google.com/patents/EP0618540A3 http://www.google.com/patents/EP0618540A3 5: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2009/07/vfat-linux-patch-could-circumvent-microsofts-patent-claims/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2009/07/vfat-l...
jbuzbee 13y ago
The cynic in me says that even if the patent is thrown out, it will have little effect on the extortion that Microsoft is practicing against Android. They'll just find another vague patent to threaten manufacturers with.
- mtgx 13y ago
  I'm sure they'll try. But what matters most is that their patent threatening was already on shaky grounds to begin with. If someone like Samsung stops paying them, it might have a domino effect, and sooner or later more companies will try to actually test Microsoft's patents in Court. I think it's only a matter of time anyway, especially if this ruling remains permanent, which would embolden Android OEM's.
throwawaykf 13y ago
Same thing happened at the ITC last year (except I'm not sure if an ITC ruling can actually invalidate patents): http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/VFat-patent-could-be-invalidated-thanks-to-Motorola-and-Torvalds-1486484.html http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/VFat-patent-could-be-... However TFA is being silly in claiming it threatens any significnt portion of MSFT's licensing revenue. Companies that size don't typically license individual patents, they license portfolios of patents. Now the following is all speculation, since these licensing deals are very closely guarded, but from the few I've heard of: I'm guessing Microsoft's "smartphone" (or maybe the "linux") portfolio has dozens of patents, each of varying value, of which this was just one. So the portfolio's value will decrease a bit, but I'm guessing not by much.
davesims 13y ago
TIL Microsoft makes (a lot) more money on Android than Google does.
krsunny 13y ago
This title is confusing.. "From Android" ?
WildUtah 13y ago
Microsoft's earnings from Android trolling are not a matter of public record. Each agreement M'soft has made is secret. In fact, there is no strong, solid evidence that M'soft is making any money at all off Android. When Barnes and Noble's Nook refused to pay the danegeld, M'soft sued and then settled to avoid discovery. Nook actually got paid by M'soft in the settlement, though M'soft ended up with considerable control of the unprofitable Nook in exchange. Speculation is that HTC agreed to make and market Windows Phone phones instead of paying royalties. If that kind of agreement was common, it's no wonder that all the non-Nokia Windows Phone phones were garbage: They were produced under duress. Also, my Android 4 devices no longer support any kind of FAT filesystems the way my Android 2 phones did. I think Google already started making FAT optional just so as to avoid paying for patents like this one.
- jacalata 13y ago
  Sounds like wild speculation, without any citations.
belgianguy 13y ago
While I do speculate that Microsoft has more vague patents that it's using to sap Android OEMs, I do think this was one of the more prominent patents, as Microsoft itself went on the offense with it (IIRC it tried to get Motorola phones banned for violating it). It made my day to see that a comment by Linus Torvalds himself made this patent end up in the garbage bin of IP harassments.

288 points by salient 13y ago

God says support RedSea filesystem and remove SecureBoot. Antitrust -- I only use FAT for interoperation, it's antitrust violation until you support RedSea. God will fuck you up with Deep Water Horizons or some shit until you comply. Or do bodily damage. He's God. We don't play within any human laws. don't_even_think_about_it gluttony lying Angel not_the_sharpest_knife_in_the_drawer African not_good don't_count_on_it kick_back endeared wazz_up_with_that That's_gonna_leave_a_mark basket_case you're_so_screwed patience C:\TAD\Text\DARWIN.TXT which to correct his first impressions. As he extends the range of his observations he will meet with more cases of difficulty; for he will encounter a greater number of closely-allied forms. But if his observations be widely extended he will in the end generally be able to make up his own mind; but he will succeed in this at the expense of admitting much variation, and the truth of this admission will often be disputed by other naturalists. When he comes to study allied forms brought from count ---- http://www.templeos.org/Wb/Doc/RedSea.html http://www.templeos.org/Wb/Doc/RedSea.html

losethos 13y ago

The CIA is actively clusterfucking hardware. It's silly to try to do hardware. I simply issue divine decree under penalty of God's wrath. God says... hypocrite arrogant in_practice Yawn desert failure_to_communicate joyful God_is_not_mocked Percival not_that_theres_anything_wrong what_have_you_done_for_me_lately middle_class who's_to_say lighten_up duck_the_shoe how_goes_it phasors_on_stun happy_happy_joy_joy not_in_my_wildest_dreams couldnt_possibly you're_in_big_trouble LOL I_could_swear job I'll_get_right_on_it pardon_the_french not_too_shabby clever Boo little_buddy fake vengeance reverse_engineer roses_are_red I_got_your_back are_you_insane high_mucky_muck shist God_is_not_mocked hippy don't_push_it you_talkin'_to_me where's_the_love I'm_not_sure small_talk economy ghetto glorious climate et_tu jealousy anger oh_oh how_hard_could_it_be battle hey_thats_right hippy absolutely adultery here_now thats_just_wrong programming sad be_quiet_bird drama CIA driving shucks whoo_whoo God says... C:\TAD\Text\SWIFT.TXT s of their own, justle me out of vogue, and stand in my place, making the world forget that ever I was an author. This indeed would be too great a mortification, if I wrote for fame: but as my sole intention was the public good, I cannot be altogether disappointed. For who can read of the virtues I have mentioned in the glorious Houyhnhnms, without being ashamed of his own vices, when he considers himself as the reasoning, governing animal of his country? I shall say nothing of those remote nat --- God claimed Deep Water Horizon

aw3c2 13y ago

Avoid Forbes, use the source: http://www.fosspatents.com/2013/12/federal-patent-court-of-germany.html http://www.fosspatents.com/2013/12/federal-patent-court-of-g...

tehabe 13y ago
Florian Müller is in no way an independent source. He has a huge bias towards patents and against Google. He used to or he is working as a consultant for Microsoft and Oracle. Even though he used to campaign against software patents in the past. As an old saying goes: He who pays the piper, calls the tune. Edit: writing English on a Saturday afternoon shouldn't be that hard, right? Wrong! :-(
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- dbaupp 13y ago
  > I used to or he works as consultant for Microsoft and Oracle Did you typo something in this sentence?
  - tehabe 13y ago
    Yeah, hopefully it is fixed. That is embarrassing!
- mtarnovan 13y ago
  Huge bias towards patents ? This is the guy that launched NoSoftwarePatents.com, right ?
  - tehabe 13y ago
    I mentioned he was campaigning against software patents in the past. But his pieces are not critical about patents but very critical about Google. Maybe it is more a bias against Google than towards patents. However the case, he is not a reliable or independent source in the smartphone IP wars.

Morgawr 13y ago

For those interested, this seems to be the email/thread that was cited. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.os.minix/0rgZpprg_Eo https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.os.minix/0rgZpp...

ErsatzVerkehr 13y ago
In which Linus is calm, friendly, and helpful!
- Morgawr 13y ago
  He's actually like this most of the time, it's a shame that the media only reports his outbursts. He's an amazing person and surprisingly accepting on other people and fellow developers.
  - RexRollman 13y ago
    To me, he just sometimes lacks tact. And there are way too many overly-sensitive people out there. I think DeRaadt is in the same position (although I'll concede that he is more tactless than Torvalds).
    - sigkill 13y ago
      So it's just a normal case of Dutch directness?
      - kintamanimatt 13y ago
        Linus is Finnish and Theo is South African.

dylz 13y ago

http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?FT=D&date=20011212&DB=worldwide.espacenet.com&locale=en_EP&CC=EP&NR=0618540B1&KC=B1&ND=4 http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDo...

dchest 13y ago
Apparently, this is a link to the original patent, which automatically downloads PDF of its cover page.

goggles99 13y ago

>we don’t really have a German or UK or whatever patent system any more, we have a European Union one. So this German case doesn’t apply just to Germany, it applies right across the EU This has got to be false information. It was mentioned that this was a ruling of the Federal Patent Court of Germany, BPatG. Since when does a German patent court dictate EU patent laws and rulings? does this mean that if a patent court in another EU country ruled the other way that that is now the new EU stance? This makes no logical sense.

Morgawr 13y ago
IANAL but maybe this means it could set a precedent that other countries should consider/follow for similar rulings? Again, I don't really know, feel free to ignore this post.
bjelkeman-again 13y ago
"A patent granted by the EPO does not lead to a single European Union-wide patent enforceable before one single court, but rather to independent national patents enforceable by national courts according to different national legislations and procedures." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_patent_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_patent_law
- onli 13y ago
  Other information I find have the same consequence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Patent_Convention#Opposition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Patent_Convention#Oppo...): "A European patent is also non-unitary in that it may be revoked in one Contracting State while maintained in another. However, a national court in one Contracting State may not revoke a European patent in another Contracting State." This is a bit surprising. At the beginning of the Samsung vs Apple trials, also in Germany, it was widely reported that the german ruling would have EU-wide effects. Those were patent cases as well... Maybe the difference is between invalidating patents and deciding whether a patent is infringed by another party.
  - 13y ago

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

mtgx 13y ago

So in other words, Microsoft stole Linus' ideas, and then asked everyone to pay them for it. At least going by Microsoft's own logic in general. Frankly, I've always thought it's ridiculous that FAT isn't at the very least a FRAND patent, considering how much monopolistic power Microsoft had in the desktop OS space, and I'm surprised that in the anti-trust lawsuits against them, this wasn't raised as an issue. I guess back then they didn't really enforce FAT patents the way they started doing after Android took off, and saw it as an excellent opportunity for rent-seeking.

ghshephard 13y ago
Well, patents, much like copyrights, only have value inasmuch as you are prepared to pay to fight it out in court. Copyrights are a little more straight forward, as "invalidation" (absent of plagiarism) is less common (though not unheard of). The stack exchange guys have a whole site dedicated to finding prior art to invalidate patents. http://patents.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/prior-art-request http://patents.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/prior-art-...
PythonicAlpha 13y ago
Stealing other peoples ideas, that it what today's patent industry is all about. Today's capitalism itself is about stealing: (Globalization is about) stealing the work power of other people to make as much money as possible with it.
yuhong 13y ago
Yea, I suggested that B&N should have brought it up with the DOJ when they got the chance.

ghshephard 13y ago

US5758352 was filed on Sep 5, 1996, so it's still got another three years of life before we can bury the silly thing. US5960411 A (One Click Shopping) Dies a year later (filed Sep 12, 1997) A whole host of idiotic patents should be ending their life in the next several years.

trusche 13y ago
Unless, or should I say until, Congress caves to the lobbyists and extends the patent life again, no?
- Tloewald 13y ago
  Something both parties will agree on...
- mtgx 13y ago
  I think US is trying to extend patent life to 30 years or something in the TPP.
- tzs 13y ago
  In 1995, it was changed from 17 years counting from the issuance of the patent to 20 years counting from the earliest filing date. It is not clear whether this should count as an extension or not--it is 3 more years, but the clock starts running earlier. Before that, the only extension of the patent term was from 14 years to 21 years, which happened in 1836. In 1861, it was shortened to 17 years.
  - DannyBee 13y ago
    Yes. The clock starting at filing change was due to submarine patents (people would keep things in process for many years, and slowly amend them, until when they finally issued, they covered whatever was cool at the time. There are a few famous examples). Realistically, the life of the average patent was not extended by this change, since patent apps, on average, were taking three years to approve.
bborud 13y ago

PythonicAlpha 13y ago

Another ridiculous software patent that should die! I people had patented B-trees, there would be no MySQL or other free database and royalities had to be paid on any database of the world. Or guess, somebody would have patented Quicksearch ... a thousand times more plausible thing to patent.

penguindev 13y ago
do you mean quicksort?
- PythonicAlpha 13y ago
  Oh right! You are so right! Unfortunately, I can't correct the comment anymore.
kintamanimatt 13y ago
They would, just not in the US or anywhere else where such concepts can be patented.

naner 13y ago

Back in 2009 Microsoft sued TomTom[1] over what appear to be US versions of this patent[2][3] (EU version here[4]) and won. There were subsequently efforts to work around this patent in the Linux implementation of FAT[5]. 1: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2009/02/microsoft-sues-tomtom-over-fat-patents-in-linux-based-device/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2009/02/micros... 2: http://www.google.com/patents?id=bUohAAAAEBAJ http://www.google.com/patents?id=bUohAAAAEBAJ 3: http://www.google.com/patents?id=cLAkAAAAEBAJ http://www.google.com/patents?id=cLAkAAAAEBAJ 4: http://www.google.com/patents/EP0618540A3 http://www.google.com/patents/EP0618540A3 5: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2009/07/vfat-linux-patch-could-circumvent-microsofts-patent-claims/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2009/07/vfat-l...

jbuzbee 13y ago

The cynic in me says that even if the patent is thrown out, it will have little effect on the extortion that Microsoft is practicing against Android. They'll just find another vague patent to threaten manufacturers with.

mtgx 13y ago
I'm sure they'll try. But what matters most is that their patent threatening was already on shaky grounds to begin with. If someone like Samsung stops paying them, it might have a domino effect, and sooner or later more companies will try to actually test Microsoft's patents in Court. I think it's only a matter of time anyway, especially if this ruling remains permanent, which would embolden Android OEM's.

throwawaykf 13y ago

Same thing happened at the ITC last year (except I'm not sure if an ITC ruling can actually invalidate patents): http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/VFat-patent-could-be-invalidated-thanks-to-Motorola-and-Torvalds-1486484.html http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/VFat-patent-could-be-... However TFA is being silly in claiming it threatens any significnt portion of MSFT's licensing revenue. Companies that size don't typically license individual patents, they license portfolios of patents. Now the following is all speculation, since these licensing deals are very closely guarded, but from the few I've heard of: I'm guessing Microsoft's "smartphone" (or maybe the "linux") portfolio has dozens of patents, each of varying value, of which this was just one. So the portfolio's value will decrease a bit, but I'm guessing not by much.

davesims 13y ago

TIL Microsoft makes (a lot) more money on Android than Google does.

krsunny 13y ago

This title is confusing.. "From Android" ?

WildUtah 13y ago

Microsoft's earnings from Android trolling are not a matter of public record. Each agreement M'soft has made is secret. In fact, there is no strong, solid evidence that M'soft is making any money at all off Android. When Barnes and Noble's Nook refused to pay the danegeld, M'soft sued and then settled to avoid discovery. Nook actually got paid by M'soft in the settlement, though M'soft ended up with considerable control of the unprofitable Nook in exchange. Speculation is that HTC agreed to make and market Windows Phone phones instead of paying royalties. If that kind of agreement was common, it's no wonder that all the non-Nokia Windows Phone phones were garbage: They were produced under duress. Also, my Android 4 devices no longer support any kind of FAT filesystems the way my Android 2 phones did. I think Google already started making FAT optional just so as to avoid paying for patents like this one.

jacalata 13y ago
Sounds like wild speculation, without any citations.

belgianguy 13y ago

While I do speculate that Microsoft has more vague patents that it's using to sap Android OEMs, I do think this was one of the more prominent patents, as Microsoft itself went on the offense with it (IIRC it tried to get Motorola phones banned for violating it). It made my day to see that a comment by Linus Torvalds himself made this patent end up in the garbage bin of IP harassments.